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How much carb does it take to put on fat?

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  • How much carb does it take to put on fat?



    I'm planning a fat gain & loss experiment. For my fat gain phase, I'm going to eat 265g carbs, 100g protein, 40g fat daily. It will be all paleo, so carbs will be from sugary fruit (bananas, raisins, etc). Is this enough carb to cause noticeable fat gain?


  • #2
    1



    That's only 1,800 calories so unless you are female and weigh 115 pounds, it probably won't cause much weight gain.

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    • #3
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      Well, part of the plan is to disprove the calorie hypothesis (I've been reading Taubes). I'm a 160 lb male.


      Currently I'm eating 1900 calories. I want to drop it for the fat gain phase and up it for the fat loss phase to really drive the point home.


      Check this thread for more details on my plan: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum...-gain-and-loss

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      • #4
        1



        Interesting. I don't think Taubes suggests that high carb Paleo foods cause fat gain. I think he is referring more to grains and processed carbohydrates. However, I like the idea of testing a higher carbohydrate Paleo diet to see if it causes weight gain.


        I think you should drop the dates, raisins, and other dried fruits though. I don't have my Paleo book handy but if I remember correctly, dried fruits are not considered to be Paleo compliant.


        I'll be very surprised if you gain weight on 1,820 calories a day and Paleo foods but I'm interested to see what happens.

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        • #5
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          Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the whole point of the "carb hypothesis" that carbs, not calories, determine fat accumulation?


          From what I understand, carb is carb, whether from fruit or grain (grain will have other bad effects though). 265g of carb a day seems like a lot to me (like 10 bananas!). I guess the real question is, how much carb (& calories) did hunter-gatherers eat in summer to fatten up for winter.

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          • #6
            1



            You can lose weight on a low fat, high carb restricted calorie diet though - tons of studies have shown that. Your experiment looks like a high carb, restricted calorie diet which has been done many, many times before. The only twist is that you are using Paleo foods only. If you really stick to that level of calories, you should actually lose weight especially if you are moderately active.

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            • #7
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              Thing is, this isn't a low calorie diet. My normal intake is 1885 cal and I'm shooting for 1820 on high-carb, so only a 65 calorie deficit (tiny). Normal diet is a 14 block zone but with 90g carb and 5x (125g) fat. I'm definitely not restricting my appetite, but maybe my calorie estimate is off... in any case, I'm only going 65 calories less than my normal diet.


              So, the million dollar question: will fat gain occur when a person switches from 20% to 60% carb calories? (with calorie intake constant)

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              • #8
                1



                Sounds really interesting. Keep us posted on your results.


                Was your weight stable on 1,885 calories / day? That just seems a bit low to me for someone who is CrossFitting 4-5 days / week but it might be your sweet spot for weight maintenance.

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                • #9
                  1



                  My calorie estimate is probably off. I'm running some data through fitday and it looks more like 2400-2500 calories (depends on the fattiness of the meat): 130g protein, 170g fat, 85g carb. (Who knew that all my veggies add up to 30g of protein/day!) So my estimate was way off and my caloric intake is pretty normal. Caloric proportions are 20/20/60.


                  My weight and fat levels have been stable on this diet. It's also likely that calories are lower because it's low carb and hard to eat more calories (I eat a ton of salad). I'm somewhat expecting that when I go high-carb, I'll be feeling hungry for more calories. In that case, I'll adjust the experiment so I don't feel starved (that would at least show that high-carb makes you hungry for more calories).

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                  • #10
                    1



                    Yep, it's a lot easier to eat excess calories when you are eating carbohydrate dense food. The thing that I always tell people is if I put 400 calories worth of pasta in front of you, you could eat all of it and probably want a little more. If I put 400 calories of broccoli in front of you, you wouldn't even get a third of the way through it before you were stuffed.

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                    • #11
                      1



                      To be fair, the 400 calories of broccoli would make your stomach extend, but you wouldn't truly be "full" because you haven't eaten fat, right? That is what I thought the whole paleo diet was about......... Otherwise, it'd just be the volumetrics diet.

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                      • #12
                        1



                        justlooking, that's the experience i had with a low-fat higher-carb diet... i might have been "full" but I was still hungry and looking for something else to fill some void.

                        That void is now filled with lots of delicious fat. haha.

                        Eating lots but still hungry? Eat more fat. Mid-day sluggishness? Eat more fat. Feeling depressed or irritable? Eat more fat. People think you've developed an eating disorder? Eat more fat... in front of them.

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                        • #13
                          1



                          Yes, that's correct. Your gut would release no cholecystokinin in response to a bunch of broccoli, and as soon as your stomach emptied you would be hungry again.

                          A better comparison would be to feed them a quarter cup of coconut oil and then see if they're hungry. Even just the mouthfeel of it will shut down their desire for food for a good while.

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                          • #14
                            1



                            Personally, I think volumetrics makes sense. If I present you with a single 400 calorie donut or 400 calories worth of vegetables, the veggies will keep you fuller longer due to the lower blood sugar impact and the simple volume of food you would have to digest. Yes, proteins and fats are very satiating, but a large volume of fibrous vegetables can also be filling and contains relatively few calories and carbohydrate given the volume of the food.

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                            • #15
                              1



                              conan, i think i'd be perfectly satiated for a while if you tossed the broccoli in some olive oil and lemon juice though.

                              Eating lots but still hungry? Eat more fat. Mid-day sluggishness? Eat more fat. Feeling depressed or irritable? Eat more fat. People think you've developed an eating disorder? Eat more fat... in front of them.

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