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  • #46
    I think the emphasis should be on learning to eat primally. Sugar is not the devil and is not this addictive food everyone says it is; in fact, it may be necessary for health.
    Glucose and sucrose for diabetes.

    I used to feel bad for years about putting a few sweets in my cart when I went shopping but now I get that it's normal and healthy to eat some sugar- it's not the white death, toxic, the cause of obesity yada yada yada and all we've heard the last few years.

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    • #47
      Ohhh.. I'm so glad I read through this whole thread. I got a lot out of it- so glad there are others of you fighting the sugar battle every day. I'll be checking in with you all! I fight the binge monster on a daily basis. My 2 biggest weaknesses are cold cereal with milk and sugar of any kind. It seems like cereal grains are the absolute worst for me in terms of making me feel the "autoimmune" sh!tstorm of migraines, chronic fatigue and the like.

      I went primal in January but have not yet been able to commit for longer than a couple of weeks' stretch of grain free, and have not yet gotten through a full week without at least ice cream. My rationale was that at least Ben & Jerry's has completely grain free flavors, and so I would get one that is made with real cream, no artifical ingredients. No joke, I started out with one a week as my "80/20" cheat day, and slowly increased to where I was eating 4 pints a week! My weight seems to maintain fine with that much ice cream, as long as I eat primally otherwise, but I can't get the sugar monster to quiet down. I will go several days and feel wonderful, and then feel that urge to binge.

      Like others, having read your thoughts, I think when I am full also seems to trigger me. But also any day that I am irritable or extra tired, I want to dive face first into food!

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      • #48
        I have a history of binge-eating, mainly focused on sugar, which is now in remission. I still have times when the urge is too strong for me, and I cave, but there are some differences now:

        1) I don't let myself feel guilty afterwards. This is huge. Instead of beating myself up, which really just reinforces the emotional connection to food, I try to think about it objectively: "I ate too much of...and now my stomach i killing me. This is the physical feeling I want to keep in mind next time I'm tempted to eat this way again." instead of, "I'm a terrible worthless person for giving in." I've found that demonizing myself is the surest guarantee that I'll be binge-eating again in the near future, because what's the quickest way to feel better when you're miserable or stressed? Sugar, of course!

        2) If I have to have something sweet, I try to make sure that it's something that will do the least damage possible. I have some rules for myself: no omega 6 crap oils, no gluten, low fiber (I have IBS, and fiber really wreaks havoc on my system). I keep these rules in mind when I'm selecting something to eat. This usually means I have a difficult time finding something 'appropriate' and as time goes by, i lose my desire for a quick sugar fix. Or I do find something, and it does less damage than eating, say a dozen doughnuts from Dunkin'.

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        • #49
          Just learn to eat 70-100 grams of protein a day, add good fats and fruits and vegetables.... I personally think labelling the desire to eat sugar which is natural as an "addiction" locks you in a box mentally. It's a negative focus that has a time wasting quality to it- doesn't it make more sense to use your time to learn to eat primally than "battling" something that honestly isn't a problem except for what you have been brainwashed to believe thanks to the media? That is my take on it.

          The "sugar is bad" thing started back in the day with the low carb/high protein movement & books like Sugar Busters. Yeah, get the sugar out, right. Uh huh..... It's bad to binge, bad to eat sugar, sugar is the white death and on and on. I've been semi primal over a decade already, since the late 90s, and what helped me was learning to eat animal protein & moderate low carb- The Zone, though yeah I know that diet sucks and has things wrong with it.

          If you don't tolerate sugar though and crave it that is a sign of impaired metabolism, insulin resistance etc and has to be dealt with sure but don't ever count on losing the taste for sugar because you won't- it's not the goal, doesn't matter that the media says it is. Eating some sugar DAILY is normal and healthy.

          PLEASE stop referring to yourselves as "addicts" and "junkies"- get out of the box while you still have your sanity.
          Glucose Clearance – 180 Degree Health

          Eat some SUGAR.

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          • #50
            That Matt Stone video is freakin' hilarious.

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            • #51
              Fiercehunter, there is a very big difference between someone who craves high sugar foods because of blood sugar/satiety issues, and someone who binges due to emotional/psychological issues.

              I agree that there is nothing wrong with eating small amounts of sugar on a daily basis. My husband is a prime example of this: he likes something a little sweet in the morning - a spoonful of sugar in his tea, toast with jam, or yogurt with honey. Then he doesn't want to think about or look at anything sweet for the rest of the day. Past breakfast, just the thought of eating something sweet will usually nauseate him. Contrast that with me at my worst - one bite of something sweet means that I won't be satisfied until I've gorged on an entire box of cookies, 3lbs of fruit, a huge bag of candy, whatever it is. Until I reach the point where I'm physically sick and about to puke, I can't stop obsessing over wanting one more bite. Sure, I could have a 'normal' serving of desert while eating with other people and stop myself from having seconds, but for the next few hours, I'd be obsessively planning how to sneak in five more servings when no one is looking, or after they leave... addiction to sugar is no different than addiction to heroin, it causes the same dopamine responses and neurotransmitter responses in the brains of sugar addicts.

              Not all people who want something sweet are addicts. Absolutely. My husband is not an addict. However, by every defintion of an addict, I am one, and it's something I must be conscious of at all times. i completely agree that we should all strive for balance and harmony in our food choices, and everyday I am working towards being able to accept things in moderation. But you telling me to lighten up and eat some sugar doesn't help. It makes you seem callous and naive. Especially considering that 3 months ago you were spitting venom at anyone who mentioned that carbs and sugar in moderation were healthy, I'm not sure why you feel the need to invalidate people who are genuinely struggling with those things.

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              • #52
                I fell off the no sugar wagon this weekend, and paid dearly for it. Something gave me a horrid case of food poisoning, and my first guess is the watermelon I overindulged in like a proper sugar addict. Luckily, it did not last that long, but I am still pretty shaken up. Don't think I want to see another watermelon this summer.
                My Journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread57916.html
                When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be.

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                • #53
                  Just learn to eat primally. There should not be a box of cookies or stash of binge foods in your house. My tone is harsh I know but it's for a good reason. I don't buy in to the psychological theory of food; sorry, heard for 20 years, lived through it also but now believe the problem was due to bad food choices & think the view of "food as a psychological issue" has done more harm than good. If you really do think you need to break free from some kind of addiction consider flower essences; Walnut is great for creating safety and breaking free unwanted bad influences. Crab Apple is a general remedy for eating disorders & there are others as well that may help you.
                  Original Bach Flower Remedies® - www.BachFlower.com

                  I hardly ate any sugar in my 30s based on the crazy bad advice that the culture's been spewing out since the late 90s. Today I eat some sugar every day because STARCH like from grains is the problem, not sugar. Deprogram yourself while you still can.

                  You might also benefit from eating in a window, creates safety and structure. Fast 5 is a paticularly long fast, 19 hours, which could be too long. You could try eating most of your food between 12-6 or 7 pm.
                  The Fast-5 Diet and the Fast-5 Lifestyle | Free PDF Ebooks Files @AcrobatPlanet.Com

                  Also, if you aren't drinking any kind of milk you might want to start. The calcium will help soothe your nerves. I've felt a lot better lately following a slightly tweaked primal food list:
                  Ray Peat Eating Guidelines : Semi Low-Carb Plans Forum : Active Low-Carber Forums
                  Originally posted by BestBetter View Post
                  Fiercehunter, there is a very big difference between someone who craves high sugar foods because of blood sugar/satiety issues, and someone who binges due to emotional/psychological issues.

                  I agree that there is nothing wrong with eating small amounts of sugar on a daily basis. My husband is a prime example of this: he likes something a little sweet in the morning - a spoonful of sugar in his tea, toast with jam, or yogurt with honey. Then he doesn't want to think about or look at anything sweet for the rest of the day. Past breakfast, just the thought of eating something sweet will usually nauseate him. Contrast that with me at my worst - one bite of something sweet means that I won't be satisfied until I've gorged on an entire box of cookies, 3lbs of fruit, a huge bag of candy, whatever it is. Until I reach the point where I'm physically sick and about to puke, I can't stop obsessing over wanting one more bite. Sure, I could have a 'normal' serving of desert while eating with other people and stop myself from having seconds, but for the next few hours, I'd be obsessively planning how to sneak in five more servings when no one is looking, or after they leave... addiction to sugar is no different than addiction to heroin, it causes the same dopamine responses and neurotransmitter responses in the brains of sugar addicts.

                  Not all people who want something sweet are addicts. Absolutely. My husband is not an addict. However, by every defintion of an addict, I am one, and it's something I must be conscious of at all times. i completely agree that we should all strive for balance and harmony in our food choices, and everyday I am working towards being able to accept things in moderation. But you telling me to lighten up and eat some sugar doesn't help. It makes you seem callous and naive. Especially considering that 3 months ago you were spitting venom at anyone who mentioned that carbs and sugar in moderation were healthy, I'm not sure why you feel the need to invalidate people who are genuinely struggling with those things.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by fiercehunter View Post
                    Eating some sugar DAILY is normal and healthy.

                    PLEASE stop referring to yourselves as "addicts" and "junkies"- get out of the box while you still have your sanity.
                    Glucose Clearance – 180 Degree Health

                    Eat some SUGAR.
                    OK, you've read a contrarian article or two about how sugar is healthy, and you bought into it, and that's fine. You've had your say in this thread and we all heard you. You're abundantly generous with your advice, but the problem is that you're WAY out of your league in terms of understanding what the people who are posting here are dealing with. Can you please let it go and let these people try to deal with the issues that they're facing?

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by fiercehunter View Post
                      Just learn to eat 70-100 grams of protein a day, add good fats and fruits and vegetables.... I personally think labelling the desire to eat sugar which is natural as an "addiction" locks you in a box mentally. It's a negative focus that has a time wasting quality to it- doesn't it make more sense to use your time to learn to eat primally than "battling" something that honestly isn't a problem except for what you have been brainwashed to believe thanks to the media? That is my take on it.
                      I don't believe that sugar is a problem for many people. Just like alcohol isn't a problem for many people, but is a definite problem for others. Sugar is a problem for me. Alcohol is also a problem for me. There is no brainwashing about it, it's just fact. It isn't normal to sit and eat 2000+ calories of sugar in one sitting, and it isn't normal to feel like I have to hide the binges out of embarassment. Binging is a behavior, for me personally it's what I do in an attempt to deal with daily stress or a stressful situation. And I did the same thing with alcohol back when I used to drink. Sugar is most definitely an addictive substance, for some people. I think that having a piece of cake is fine and normal. Having a candy bar every once in awhile when the urge hits is not a problem. It becomes a problem when someone can't seem to moderate the quantity of sugar they are eating and keep it at a healthy and safe level, just like an alcoholic has a problem moderating their alcohol intake and keeping it at a safe and healthy level.

                      So really, stop telling everyone to "Eat some SUGAR"......that is really insensitive and dangerous to be saying to people that have issues with moderating their sugar intake.

                      And to everyone else reading this, someone said this very thing to me which is only YOU know if you have a problem with binge eating sugar, or binge eating anything for that matter. Breaking down and having a candy bar every once in awhile or a teaspoon of sugar a day in your coffee is not an issue and is not the kind of sugar comsumption that I'm talking about. I'm talking about balls to the wall, eating every single thing that contains sugar in your house kind of sugar consumption, which is not healthy or normal. If you are in this camp like I am, then please don't take fiercehunter's advice and "eat some sugar".

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                      • #56
                        Sugar problems and addiction is real. I see person after person describe the same problem I have when sugar begets more sugar, and eating sugar-free in a few days produces noticeable improvements. The only visible difference like that I have witnessed before is when i stopped eating breads and pasta. I started to feel better basically in two days. With sugar it is more complex. I dropped and limited dairy with no changes what-so-ever. I dropped grains, first processed, then all, and I am just fine. I went through a phase of overeating nuts and then they just got under control 'magically' after I learned to eat fat from other sources.

                        But fruit is another story. It is either binging on it or none. I was going to try to just eat a bit of fruit over the weekend, and I ended up eating so much watermelon that I puked, sweated and groaned in pain for 2 hours (and I did not think that I ate *that* much watermelon either). And you know what? It is for the BEST, because normally it doesn't happen. normally, I just eat a bucket of fruit and feel great, and then get ravenous next day and eat 2 buckets of fruit... etc. And then the little demon starts directing me towards dark chocolate. Then I decide that raisins are Okay.... and it continues from bad to worse until I hit myself in the face and stop eating sugar.

                        And gazillion other people experience the same slide.

                        You cannot dismiss this as stupid no willpower crap thing. I have willpower to power me through everything else. And, I live in a household with my husband and my daughter who can and will eat fruit, whom I am not going to deprive from it. Neither I am going to stop keeping a few raisins, dried cranberries or a bar of dark chocolate in the pantry. I am not a hermit, and I cook, and my folks eat what they chose to eat. I have to deal with MY problems, and the more I abstain from sugar, the better I feel.

                        Look, Fierce Hunter, I will sell my soul to be 110 lbs that you were before you lost 20 lbs. Nobody is buying my soul. I deeply respect you ability to do that! But i am not like you, despite, again, having my soul for sale to be like you. So, I do the next best thing. I eat clean, I eat organic and I do my best. My best is not always good enough, but I have the rest of my life to perfect it.
                        Last edited by Leida; 06-18-2012, 09:20 AM.
                        My Journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread57916.html
                        When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          I think I am like FierceHunter in that I have had problems overeating on sugar but eating clean has really helped me a lot and made it something I can usually eat with quite a bit of moderation. However, I disagree with her that because eating clean has helped, that it's the cure for everybody and that everyone should just learn to eat sugary things in moderation. That's stupid. Fruit, dried fruit and outright sugar are not required for a healthy diet so if there's a problem with it, then elimination is helpful. Just like for alcoholics, elimination is helpful.
                          Female, 5'3", 50, Max squat: 202.5lbs. Max deadlift: 225 x 3.

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by fiercehunter View Post

                            You might also benefit from eating in a window, creates safety and structure. Fast 5 is a paticularly long fast, 19 hours, which could be too long. You could try eating most of your food between 12-6 or 7 pm.
                            BTW, there was a really great article on the Paleo for Women blog explaining how Intermittent Fasting, especially eating during windows that are smaller than 10 hours have health benefits for MEN, but are actually detrimental for WOMEN's health. Good read, I highly recommend it. Even though I love the 1-2 meals per day eating style and have been doing it for more than 6 months, my digestive system can not handle it, and it is a trigger for my IBS. Additionally, I've never lost weight, reduced my inflammation, or had any change in my sugar addiction as a result of IF.



                            http://www.paleoforwomen.com/shatter...he-literature/

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                            • #59
                              Sugar is definitely addictive for some individuals. I am one of them. Is it physical or psychological? I really don't know or care. Staying away from it helps to keep me from a downward spiral of gorging myself daily on treats.

                              Over the weekend I was treated to a higher end restaurant and did have a lovely slice of torte for dessert. While I didn't mind going off primal for this special occasion, that single slice of cake did trigger my intense cravings again. That is why I keep it out of my house and never carry small bills or loose change to work, where candy in the vending machine could be a temptation. When the cravings trigger I am more than capable to stuffing myself with sweets well past the point of being full.

                              I only do this with sugar. Nothing else makes me want to do this. As long as I eat plenty of fat and avoid the sweets (I'm usually fine with fruit in moderation) I don't have this issue.

                              I do understand that some people don't get it. There are many things I do not understand because I personally don't deal with them. It is easy when you don't deal with something to make a flippant remark of how easy it is to stop whatever it is, and that whatever it is isn't true. I've said it myself about other things.

                              I think it's also good to keep in mind that absolutely anything can become an addiction. Sugar is certainly not the worst thing out there you can become addicted to.

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                              • #60
                                'nother sugar junkie checking in! I mentioned Julia Ross on a different thread and thought I would bring her up here as well. I too used to be able to eat pounds of milk chocolate without blinking an eye. I have been off of it for 3 months now without any problem. This go round I got off of sugar by eating 65-70% sat fat daily, eating til totally full, not worrying about anything. Also, I let myself have really dark chocolate daily, but no fruit. I know that I am a junkie, and that vigilance is key, and that like any junkie I need to watch out for rationalizations.

                                I mention Julia Ross because in her book The Diet Cure, she explains how to use amino acids to beat all kinds of cravings and issues like low energy, lack of focus, depression. Her dietary advice is excellent for women, just take out the grain. I worked with her in person a number of years ago and she saved my life, literally. The issues I had then have never come back with the same intensity and anytime they do resurface I have the tools necessary to get things back under control.

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