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Varying between >50g and <50g carbs Low Carb Flu?

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  • #46
    Originally posted by StackingPlates View Post
    Actually that isn't true as he repeatedly operates under the notion that he just wants to help people. I believe his goal is 10 million people helped as per a recent blog post?

    I also disagree that "simple" sells books. What sells is promising folks a way to "cheat the system". All "diets" have to have a gimic, or something that distances them from "calories in versus calories out" or "eat less and move more".

    Find one on the list that doesn't have a BS gimmick...

    Are you purposefully being an apologist or just trying to be argumentative? I'm going to assume you've read the book where that graphic came from, no? If you fancy yourself on the intelligent side as it relates to nutrition and human physiology then try to put yourself into the mind of someone who is utterly clueless and desperate. Now, look at this picture again and honestly tell me this wouldn't put the fear of God in you when it comes to CHOs? Make special note of large "danger zone", "obesity and illness", "store more fat", and "insidious weight gain" verbiage in bold.

    Read through all the threads started by the CHO fearing posters in this forum if you need more convincing...pseudo science + large influence = dangerous combination.
    Hold the phone. Let's not get crossways here. First of all I like Mark on a personal basis. I went to PrimalCon and he is a heckofa nice guy. That said, the website content is free but he is in a money making business. I have no problem with that.

    I agree with you about the "cheat the system" approach. That's what I meant by simplistic. Looking for "the trick".

    Not trying to be an apologist or argumentative. I can see that a newbie might get the idea that those graphs were carved up on the mountain but then they figure it out. No harm done. And Mark has done numerous posts and "Dear Mark" articles with further explanations. I just think you're over dramatizing a bit. "Fear of God"? Seriously?

    The thing is though, lowering your carbs really does work for a lot of people. It worked for me. At least it kick starts the process. People can fine tune the plan later.

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    • #47
      Originally posted by Omni View Post
      Yeah, starting to get the picture, but would like to get something a bit more definative that "low carb intake"
      The link above had another one:
      The Ketogenic Diet for Health
      Got a bit of a guideline on going into the process, the general reccomendation is to gradually reduce the carbs, then 0 carb for at least 30 days to get a feel for it and allow the body to fully adapt.
      I checked out some of the epilepsy stuff as well, as I do have a significant interest in the diet:disease connections, as you say the majority is very low carb, but I will keep hunting as I would like to get a clearer understanding of which systems convert over to ketones at the varying carb intakes.
      I would consider that to be a bit on the hardcore extreme side.

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      • #48
        Hey Paleobird, thanks for the link and clarification--this was just what I needed.

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by Tom B-D View Post
          Hey Paleobird, thanks for the link and clarification--this was just what I needed.
          You're welcome. Feel free to PM me if you have more questions. I don't have all the answers to everything but I can tell you what worked for me.

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by StackingPlates View Post
            Actually that isn't true as he repeatedly operates under the notion that he just wants to help people. I believe his goal is 10 million people helped as per a recent blog post?

            I also disagree that "simple" sells books. What sells is promising folks a way to "cheat the system". All "diets" have to have a gimic, or something that distances them from "calories in versus calories out" or "eat less and move more".

            Amazon.com: The Bestselling Diet Books on the Market

            Find one on the list that doesn't have a BS gimmick...



            Are you purposefully being an apologist or just trying to be argumentative? I'm going to assume you've read the book where that graphic came from, no? If you fancy yourself on the intelligent side as it relates to nutrition and human physiology then try to put yourself into the mind of someone who is utterly clueless and desperate. Now, look at this picture again and honestly tell me this wouldn't put the fear of God in you when it comes to CHOs? Make special note of large "danger zone", "obesity and illness", "store more fat", and "insidious weight gain" verbiage in bold.

            Read through all the threads started by the CHO fearing posters in this forum if you need more convincing...pseudo science + large influence = dangerous combination.

            [ATTACH]7845[/ATTACH]
            +1. The carbohydrate curve has no scientific basis and is an embarrassment.
            F 5 ft 3. HW: 196 lbs. Primal SW (May 2011): 182 lbs (42% BF)... W June '12: 160 lbs (29% BF) (UK size 12, US size 8). GW: ~24% BF - have ditched the scales til I fit into a pair of UK size 10 bootcut jeans. Currently aligning towards 'The Perfect Health Diet' having swapped some fat for potatoes.

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            • #51
              Just a quick update. I tracked my eating for a few days and noticed my protein & fat intake were pretty close. I raised my fat levels (extra coconut oil) and I feel much better. I also raised my carbs into the 60-100 range by adding larger portions of veggies.
              "You have succeeded in life when all you really want is only what you really need." ~ Vernon Howard

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              • #52
                Hi Paleobird,
                I am new to all this and feel like I am in the zone of misery.. I went on Peter's website and could not find much information on it.. I have been looking for about an hour or so... in the midst of doing other things.. anyway... Can you give me some information on it? I am on day 4 of eating paleo and feel like crap.. very tired.. feel like I need to eat every 3 hours..sometimes more... Do you have any pointers?

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                • #53
                  Hi there,
                  How do I avoid the carb flu? I am on day 4 of eating this way... and feel like shit..
                  any help??

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by klh39v View Post
                    Hi there,
                    How do I avoid the carb flu? I am on day 4 of eating this way... and feel like shit..
                    any help??
                    You can't avoid the carb flu, it just takes time for the body to adapt to burning fat instead of glucose. Just push through i guarantee you will feel much better in a week or two.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Lukey View Post
                      You can't avoid the carb flu, it just takes time for the body to adapt to burning fat instead of glucose. Just push through i guarantee you will feel much better in a week or two.
                      You can't avoid it altogether but you can make it easier. One of the things that happens as your body becomes adapted to fat burning is that you flush out a lot of extra water weight. With that a lot of electrolytes often get flushed as well so make sure you are eating enough salt maybe a bit more than your usual. Mineral water can also help and just generally staying hydrated.

                      Also feeling like you really NEED to eat very frequently is a sure sign that you are still a sugar burner. When you can skip a meal without panic setting in, you will be a Fat Burning Beast as Mark calls it. (do a search on that term for a good MDA post on the subject). While you are transitioning, by all means, EAT. Do not worry about counting calories etc. You can dieal the quantities back in once you are adapted.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by paleo-bunny View Post
                        +1. The carbohydrate curve has no scientific basis and is an embarrassment.
                        It's not necessarily an embarrassment. Mark operates under the assumption that carbs are more easily digested and do not keep you as full for as long as fats and proteins. However, what he fails to ever acknowledge is when grains, legumes, sugars and liquid calories are removed from the diet, it becomes nearly impossible to eat 300+g of carbohydrate a day. When your readily available options in Westernized food markets for carbohydrate are essentially limited to fruit and potatoes, how the hell are you supposed to eat 300+ carbs a day? That's about 3.5 lbs of potatoes a day. Eat 3.5 lbs of potatoes every day and I CHALLENGE you to overeat. That is an open invite. With that mass of bulky potatoes, I seriously doubt you're going to be able to pack in thousands of calories of meat.

                        The Primal Blueprint will always be low carbohydrate compared to the SAD because the high carbohydrate nature of the SAD relies on flours and sugary drinks to bridge the gap. You just can't eat that many carbs in real food while keeping protein and fats elevated. It's just too much work to eat that much every day.

                        This is why I'm adamantly against low carbohydrate eating. The Primal Blueprint IS low carbohydrate built-in, and it's just stupid to stress over whether or not you're <100g of carbs a day. It isn't helping you lose weight, it's only helping you build anxiety. There's no need to make mashed cauliflower to bridge the gap between mashed potatoes, just eat the mashed potatoes. The REAL things that keep you from losing weight on The Primal Blueprint are nuts and dairy (and the people that do things like eat and drink oil for some reason). They're extremely easy to overeat because of the high caloric density, and by the time your ghrelin drop kicks in to signal satiety, it's probably too late. Eliminate them and keep the starches and you'll have better results on average.
                        Last edited by ChocoTaco369; 09-19-2012, 08:36 AM.
                        Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          300 g carbs is 10 rather small apples, it will be about 1000 calories. I can eat 10 apples in a day AND have normal food otherwise, bringing me to my gaining range, i.e. overeating. And if we are talking something like grapes or mango, it's even easier.

                          Just eat a smoothie for breakfast with a banana & a mango, a pear & an apple for lunch/snack and a modest amount of grapes (4 cups) as a dessert after supper that has a side of 3 medium potatoes (to make a 1 lb) or a bit of rice, and you are >300 g of carbs AND 1400 calories, that's not counting carbs from any veggies or dairy or eggs you would consume. So, you are basically overeating on just fruit and one side dish.

                          It's as easy as nothing.
                          My Journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread57916.html
                          When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be.

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Leida View Post
                            300 g carbs is 10 rather small apples, it will be about 1000 calories. I can eat 10 apples in a day AND have normal food otherwise, bringing me to my gaining range, i.e. overeating. And if we are talking something like grapes or mango, it's even easier.
                            No it is not. According to Fitday, a "small" apple is of 2.5" diameter and contains 14.6g of carbohydrate. You would have to eat 20.5 "small" apples to hit 300g of carbohydrate. Have you ever eaten 20.5 apples in a day? Has anyone on this forum done that before? The more telling number is weight. 300g of carbohydrate = 4.79lb of apples. Who here can sustainably eat 5 pounds of apples a day? Any takers?

                            Also factor in that the average person is throwing away the core of the apple, which is what, 30% of the mass? So now we're talking more like 6-7 lbs of apples once we discard the waste?

                            You are not eating all those apples a day.

                            Originally posted by Leida View Post
                            Just eat a smoothie for breakfast with a banana & a mango, a pear & an apple for lunch/snack and a modest amount of grapes (4 cups) as a dessert after supper that has a side of 3 medium potatoes (to make a 1 lb) or a bit of rice, and you are >300 g of carbs AND 1400 calories, that's not counting carbs from any veggies or dairy or eggs you would consume. So, you are basically overeating on just fruit and one side dish.
                            No, you're not, because your calorie tracking is grossly mismanaged. On top of that, you are drinking calories, which is expressly prohibited. Eat food. Don't drink it. Rice, also, is a grain and is not a primal food. It may be low toxin, but it is still not real food. You're inflating carbohydrate numbers by 50%, liquifying your calories and adding in foods that don't classify as 'real food' to cheat your way to an arbitrary number. This isn't realistic.

                            Originally posted by Leida View Post
                            It's as easy as nothing.
                            It's incredibly difficult. Not one thing you mentioned was legitimate outside of a pound of potatoes, and since most of the women on this forum can't seem to eat a 10oz steak in a sitting, they're supposed to sit down and eat an entire pound of potatoes AND cheat with white rice AND still someone manage to eat a healthy serving of protein while squeezing in a smoothie? Really?
                            Last edited by ChocoTaco369; 09-19-2012, 09:19 AM.
                            Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              There of course is no one size fits all in anything. Even scientific research tends to be biased. The people participating are often (for example) only male, only obese, only fill in the blank. Conclusions are then extrapolated (often erroneously) onto the rest of the population.

                              I also never got carb flu. Right now, for me only, my upper limit is 75 grams of carbs per day, but I stay under 50 almost always. I don't leap out of bed in the morning, but neither do I feel sluggish. It's hard to tell if my now better daily energy is the result of eating low carb or the fact that low carb helped me reduce my weight and so my body can do more.

                              There is no magic bullet. The best any of us can do is let people like Mark and others do and/or filter the science for us, read our asses off and try to toss out the "science" that results in our own cognitive disonance, and get healthy and strong.

                              And if Mark makes a gazillion dollars filtering the science so that I (and 10 million others) don't have to wade through heavy research papers, more power to him!
                              "Right is right, even if no one is doing it; wrong is wrong, even if everyone is doing it." - St. Augustine

                              B*tch-lite

                              Who says back fat is a bad thing? Maybe on a hairy guy at the beach, but not on a crab.

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                              • #60
                                "Small" apple in the fit-day is something you would never find in the grocery store. It is actually TINY. All apples that you actually would consider small are 'large' in the fit day, they are more of a 30 g carbs, 100 cal ones. Even if not, 4 apples a day is nothing.

                                WTF, not drinking calories? Not having soups or smoothies or broth? Most people love them and eat them, Paleo or not. I doubt anyone will have a problem with having a smoothie after having a couple of eggs for breakfast. I can do it without bating an eyelash and 2 eggs will be small.

                                And no, it is NOT potatoes OR rice. It is either OR. A lb of potatoes is 3 average potatoes. Nothing exciting about their size, 150 g each. You can have that and a piece of a steak or fish, or a chicken breast. If it is mushed, you would think it's not enough, really. It's like a cup and a half. If it is made into fries, even less...

                                I have never heard anyone complaining about not being able to eat 10 oz steak. In fact many complain how they can breathe it IN and not notice.

                                Honestly, the day is LONG, you will have these foods no pro.

                                I did not eat 20 apples in a day, but I ate a few pounds of fruit in a day EASILY, and will do so again if I did not have to control myself.
                                My Journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread57916.html
                                When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be.

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