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  • Cold Water for Fat Loss, Muscle Recovery, and Increased Metabolism Thread

    Howdy All! Mark has been writing a lot lately about using cold water for numerous primal benefits such as fat loss, exercise recovery, and increasing metabolism through brown adipose tissue (BAT).

    Here are some links to Mark's previous blogs on the topics:

    Cold Water Therapy | Mark's Daily Apple

    How to Conduct a Personal Experiment: Cold Water Plunges | Mark's Daily Apple

    Dear Mark: Leptin Resets, Cold Thermogenesis, and Safe Starches? | Mark's Daily Apple

    Is Brown Fat Good For You? | Mark's Daily Apple

    There are other 'guru's' touting the benefits of cold water, let's leave them out of this and focus on tearing into what Mark Sisson is finding. His latest challenge on self-experimentation is a great place to start this thread, maybe his next book will use our data!

  • #2
    There's already this thread. I thought you had posted in it.

    http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread50560.html
    You lousy kids! Get off my savannah!

    Comment


    • #3
      Anyhow, I have been a fan of the cold for years. I live in Fairbanks, Alaska, one of the coldest cities in the world. I have incorporated cold into my workouts and life. I retired from the Air Force in 2004 a little on the heavy side, but over the next few years I ballooned out of control. I was a 42 year old guy, 5'11, 250lbs, on all kinds of medicine for full-blown metabolic syndrome type stuff (high bp, high chol, gout, hypothyroid, sleep apnea, fatty liver disease, etc...) Fast forward to 2010, I discovered Mark's daily Apple and started eating and exercising according to the blueprint and have lost nearly 100lbs and weigh 165.

      Last Winter, I was at that dreaded 'last 10 lbs' phase. Carb cycling, IF'ing, sprinting, LHT, all that couldn't bust it. I turned down the heat in my garage where I exercise to 40 degrees, abandoned my winter clothing for any outdoor activities just short of frostbite and hypothermia, began taking cold plunges in water from 32 - 80 degrees. I studied all I could on the physiology of cold adaptation. I went from 177 in January to 165 now. I lost almost all traces of belly fat and increased gains on lifting.

      I'd love to share what I learned with you guys. As Mark says--there is merit to cold water therapy.
      Last edited by otzi; 06-05-2012, 09:31 AM.

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      • #4
        I am glad to see Mark's views all in one place with a link. Thanks!
        65lbs gone and counting!!

        Fat 2 Fit - One Woman's Journey

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by otzi View Post
          Howdy All! Mark has been writing a lot lately about using cold water for numerous primal benefits such as fat loss, exercise recovery, and increasing metabolism through brown adipose tissue (BAT).

          Here are some links to Mark's previous blogs on the topics:

          Cold Water Therapy | Mark's Daily Apple

          How to Conduct a Personal Experiment: Cold Water Plunges | Mark's Daily Apple

          Dear Mark: Leptin Resets, Cold Thermogenesis, and Safe Starches? | Mark's Daily Apple

          Is Brown Fat Good For You? | Mark's Daily Apple

          There are other 'guru's' touting the benefits of cold water, let's leave them out of this and focus on tearing into what Mark Sisson is finding. His latest challenge on self-experimentation is a great place to start this thread, maybe his next book will use our data!
          wait, dude - are you starting another cold water will save us all thread?

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by jakey View Post
            wait, dude - are you starting another cold water will save us all thread?
            I wanted to let that other thread die. You guys ruined it by dissing the cold so bad. There are people genuinely interested in using cold for health benefits, like, oh, Mark Sisson. Mark did another 'cold will save us all' blog just today.

            People have been asking a lot lately about how to get started with cold baths. One of the first steps is getting used to the cold water. This can be done by activating your built-in 'mammalian dive reflex'. When you put your face in water colder than 55 degrees, your brain thinks you fell in the water and does some miraculous things. It slows your heart rate, constricts peripheral blood vessels, and changes the way your lungs exchange oxygen.

            Doing this a few times will acclimate your body to the changes that happen when you get cold. You should try doing this a few times before your first cold water experience. Just fill a sink with cold water and ice cubes, put your face in and hold your breath. When you can't hold any longer--you are done (30-60 seconds). Do it a few times the day before your first cold water bath and you will be good to go.

            If you don't believe me, check Google or Mammalian diving reflex - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia If you have done it, tell us about it!

            Comment


            • #7
              He stated why - this one is to get the focus off of the personal controversies of other "gurus" and focus on what Mark (since this is his daily apple) has posted and the personal experiences of the people already on this forum.

              My temp has gone from 96.0-97.0 across a cycle to 97.0-98.4 across a cycle, and energy has steadily increased (after 6 years of CFS) since day 1 of cold baths. After a few weeks, I needed to decrease my thyroid supplement b/c I started getting hyperthyroid signs. All of these point to CT improving my thyroid function.

              My cold tolerance has dramatically increased from needing a wool coat at 40F to enjoying 27F in a lightweight shirt & pants with no coat for half an hour. (Otzi's is way more dramatic, working out in -10F in shorts & a tee!) Also, from shivering heavily in 70F baths & unable to tolerate a single ripple to shiver-free swims in a 50F swiftly moving river for half an hour.

              Spot-icing my belly has most definitely reduced belly fat. It began within a few days of starting, and stopped when I stopped icing a few weeks later.

              All this after going primal for two years. At the time I started CT'ing, I made no other dietary changes.
              5'4" 39yo mother to five sweeties & married to their AMAZING DaddyGrok
              Current Weight: 175lb__________________________________Goal: 135lb
              Deadlift: 240lb________________________________________Back Squat: 165lb
              Bench: 130lb__________________________________________Pre ss: 85lb
              ***Winning a 20-year war against binge eating disorder***

              Comment


              • #8
                I'm about 1.5 weeks in (cold showers, ice packs/spot icing, and ice baths for bottom half of my body). Since day 1 of cold showers, I stopped losing hair by the handful. My abdomen is less bloated, and my skin is looking great. Even though I'm not cold-adapted yet, I don't fear the cold anymore - which for me, is huge. I'm excited to see what the next weeks/months will bring by continuing CT.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I have started taking cold showers over the past month, and my god have they done wonders to this bod.

                  Being in my late twenties and having been athletic forever, life events raised stress levels along with weight.

                  MDA and PB have done wonders for me over the past 3 months.

                  Cold showers have literally killed my stress levels (road rage, work) and has lowered my blood pressure ( refuse medication).

                  Need to read up now on the abdominal cold packs.

                  ^^^ buffalo is prime country for cold! Lived there from 06-09 during my college days.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Nitro3 View Post
                    I have started taking cold showers over the past month, and my god have they done wonders to this bod.

                    Need to read up now on the abdominal cold packs.
                    Look up a process known as Zeltiq. Sometimes it goes by CoolSculpting. It is a process invented by Harvard scientists and sold to a private firm. The principal is that fat cells get cooled to around 35 degrees, they commit suicide (apoptosis). This is at a temperature above what would cause skin and tissue damage. Ice packs held over areas of stubborn fat will cause the fat cells to die and the body will absorb them over time. It doesn't happen over night, but do a daily ice pack treatment for a week or two a then wait 4-6 weeks before re-icing the area. I have used this method and it worked for me. i used a gallon size ziplock bag filled 1/2 with crushed ice cubes and water. This will get your skin temp down to the required temp for lipoloysis.

                    From Wikipedia: Cryolipolysis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

                    Method of action and animal studies
                    Lipolysis procedures attempt to "dissolve" fat cells by nonsurgical means. A number of methods have been attempted, including the use of laser, ultrasound, and rf current.[4] Popsicle panniculitis is a dermatologic condition that shows that exposure to low temperatures can selectively damage subcutaneous fat while leaving skin intact.[5] Based on this premise, fat cells are more easily damaged by cooling than skin cells, cryolipolysis was developed applying low temperatures to tissue via thermal conduction. In order to avoid frostbite, a specific temperature level and exposure is determined. Drs. Dieter Manstein and R. Rox Anderson at The Wellman Center at Massachusetts General Hospital originated the concept, explored it in a number of experiments on pigs and reported their data in 2008. [4][6] While the process is not fully understood, it appear that fatty tissue that is cooled below body temperature but above freezing undergoes localized cell death followed by a local inflammatory response, a local panniculitis,[4] that gradually over the course of several months results in a reduction of the fatty tissue layer.[7]

                    [edit] Experience in humans
                    The first human study appeared in 2009 when Coleman et al. reported results after cryolipolysis had been applied to love handles in a single session to ten patients, each patient being their own control. A session takes less than an hour and does not require anesthesia. With a single treatment subjects had a 20 % reduction after two months and 25 % reduction at six months in the fat layer as assessed by ultrasound.[7] The lipolytic effect of treatment takes place within about two to four months.[5] It appears primarily applicable for limited discrete fat bulges.[8] With the small number of patients treated clinical data remain scarce, thus it is not known how long the treatment effect will last, or when and if later treatments would be necessary to maintain the result.
                    Last edited by otzi; 06-05-2012, 10:58 AM.

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                    • #11
                      Well, I have been taking completely cold showers for a few weeks now. Mostly what I've noticed is my tolerance for cold water has increased. I've also been swimming in the ocean early in the morning but the water is pretty warm. Maybe it's time to move on to ice baths. I want this to work...
                      You lousy kids! Get off my savannah!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Grumpycakes View Post
                        Well, I have been taking completely cold showers for a few weeks now. Mostly what I've noticed is my tolerance for cold water has increased. I've also been swimming in the ocean early in the morning but the water is pretty warm. Maybe it's time to move on to ice baths. I want this to work...
                        It's working whether you know it or not! When you activate BAT, which can be done with cool--not cold--temps, you activate a metabolism booster that lies dormant in most people. Read this article from the Joslin Diabetes center, released yesterday:


                        Researchers at Joslin Diabetes Center have shown that while a type of "good" fat found in the body can be activated by cold temperatures, it is not able to be activated by the drug ephedrine.


                        The finding, published in today's issue of PNAS USA Early Edition, may lead to drugs or other methods aimed at activating the good fat, known as brown fat. When activated, brown fat burns calories and can help in the battle against obesity.

                        "We propose that agents that work similarly to cold in activating brown fat specifically can provide promising approaches to fighting obesity while minimizing other side effects," said Aaron Cypess, M.D., Ph.D., an assistant investigator and staff physician at Joslin and lead author of the paper.

                        "At the same time, we now know that ephedrine is not the way to do it," he added.

                        Brown fat is found in humans naturally and consumes calories to generate heat. Prior studies had shown that brown fat can be activated by cold exposure in a process called non-shivering thermogenesis.

                        Researchers have been working for years to find ways to activate brown fat.

                        Ephedrine, a decongestant and bronchodilator, has been used as a weight loss drug because it increases the number of calories burned. However, there are side effects.

                        In this study, the Joslin team tested 10 study subjects in three ways. They were each separately given injections of ephedrine, given injections of saline as a control, and made to wear "cooling vests" that had water cooled to 57 degrees pumped into them. After each intervention, the brown fat activity was measured using PET/CT scans.

                        The researchers found that brown fat activity was the same following both the ephedrine and saline injections. However, after the subjects wore the cooling vests for two hours, their brown fat activity was stimulated significantly.

                        Both interventions — ephedrine injections and the wearing of the cooling vests — did result in the same number of calories being burned, Dr. Cypess noted.

                        "But we found that ephedrine was not using brown fat to do it," he said. "This is the first time it has been found that ephedrine does not turn on brown fat."

                        Both interventions had other effects on the sympathetic nervous system -- which activates the fight or flight response -- such as increased blood pressure, but those associated with brown fat activation were fewer, the study showed.

                        "Mild cold exposure stimulates (brown fat) energy expenditure with fewer other systemic effects, suggesting that cold activates specific sympathetic pathways," the paper concludes. "Agents that mimic cold activation of (brown fat) could provide a promising approach to treating obesity while minimizing systemic effects."

                        As a result of the findings, drug companies may find it easier to come up with agents that stimulate brown fat to help people lose weight, Dr. Cypess said.

                        One method may be simply to design cooling vests that people can wear to help them lose weight. A future study will have subjects wear the vests for several weeks to see what happens, Dr. Cypess said.

                        "Will they get the same health benefits they would have seen with several weeks of exercise? That's the billion dollar question."

                        The findings should also be of interest to heart researchers interested in the mechanisms of activation of the sympathetic nervous system, he added.


                        Provided by Joslin Diabetes Center

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                        • #13
                          I read the other night, most of the BAT is between our shoulder blades, which I guess is why they are wearing vests, that and vest are easy to wear. My question is, does sitting in cold water (less than 80) w/o shoulder blades in, does it do the same thing? My pond is 78 in the shallows at the moment, but I just didnt feel like doing anything more than sitting in it while the kids played. Well I moved and stretched my legs, etc but I mean I didnt want to get anything else wet. I probably spent 45 minutes this afternoon, thinking I could skip my cold bath tonight in lieu of my pond time.
                          65lbs gone and counting!!

                          Fat 2 Fit - One Woman's Journey

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                          • #14
                            I have been rinsing with a cold shower after taking a hot shower this past year and it really revs up my energy. I figured if hot/cold compresses worked on inflammation (such as sprains) it would work on total body inflammation too. I am ready to graduate to swimming in the chilly waters of the Puget Sound now I guess to see what other benefits I can gain.

                            I know I have to wear ear plugs to immerse my head in cold water or I get very nauseous. Does anyone else have this problem?

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by jakey View Post
                              wait, dude - are you starting another cold water will save us all thread?
                              He's starting another because dissenting viewpoints and discussions of both the pros and cons were not allowed. Either be a cheerleader or a disciple or get off the thread.

                              OK, I'm off.

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