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Cold Water for Fat Loss, Muscle Recovery, and Increased Metabolism Thread

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  • #46
    I have some questions about eating and CT. As I was reading through the first CT thread, I saw it mentioned not to eat a huge fatty meal directly afterward, and I think someone said it should be done on an empty stomach, while someone else mentioned eating a big fatty meal shortly beforehand. I may be remembering this wrong, so for clarification:

    1) Should you do CT on an empty stomach? (If so, is 2 hours sufficient to wait after eating a meal, or should it be longer?)

    2) Is the timing of foods different if one is doing an ice bath vs. spot icing on the stomach or legs?

    3) How long after CT should one wait before eating?

    4) Theoretically, is the macro breakdown important in that meals that day? (For example, should I do ice baths on my high fat/low carbs days, or is it just as ok to do them on my higher carb/lower fat days?)

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    • #47
      Originally posted by Nitro3 View Post

      ^^^ buffalo is prime country for cold! Lived there from 06-09 during my college days.
      That's what i keep hearing, but since I just moved here a few months ago, and this winter was the most mildest on record with practically no snow, so far the Buffalo winter has eluded me. I'm excited to be prepared for it next season, though!

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      • #48
        Leida, if humans were walruses, and lived in polar water a great deal, then we would need all that extra blubber. Plus they have a high fish intake. Eskimos have round faces, but not round bodies, the ones who never went the white man's SAD route. Diet is very important, more so than cold, but I'm trying cold packs for love handles that are out of control.;-)
        Uhm, those are HUMANS, they are called 'morj' or 'whalrus' in translation in Russia, and they go and jump into frozen rivers and swim for a few moment every winter, generally every weekend. En masse. The practice of applying cold water is called "zakalka" and the verb is "zakal'yat'sya". Erm. Whatever.

        @sbhikes: Yep, Russians also jump into snow or get under cold water after banya (a version of sauna) repeatedly, that's normal. It's done in the name of not getting sick in the winter. It does help with that. As for reducing the body fat, heh, we are not known as a nation of slender wisps, I am afraid. Even before wheat got modified, and we ate everything with full-fat raw sour-cream and plentiful vegetables, we were tall, broad, stocky and rather fat.

        Here's the deal on hunger, and no one can dispute this. When you are cold, you have no hunger. It doesn't matter how hungry you are--when you go into very cold air or water, your hunger disappears. Maybe if you obsess and overthink you can will your hunger back, but in the normal course, cold instantly kills hunger.
        I dunno, cold weather always make me want a lot of hot food, and when I walk outdoors when it is cold, my appetite heightens. If I ever lose appetite at all it is when it is too hot, not too cold.
        Last edited by Leida; 06-06-2012, 05:38 AM.
        My Journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread57916.html
        When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be.

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        • #49
          I started cold water therapy during winters here in Vermont a few years back. We had a mild enough winter this past year (2011-2012) that Lake Champlain didn't freeze, so I was able to go for a dip most weeks this past winter. Since I've been doing this a few years I'm acclimating well to the cold water, and can now wade into 32 F water without any shock response at all and swim around for a few minutes before the cold really starts to feel biting. I can usually stay in the water for another minute or so after it starts to feel biting before I start to shiver, at which point I figure it's time to get out.

          I've definitely noticed a reduction in the frequency of sickness since starting this. I used to get a cold or flu perhaps 3-5 times per year, now that's down to just two incidences of cold or flu in the last 3 years and both of these incidences were of a much reduced duration (lasting 1-2 days instead of 3-7). I've always been a fairly lean, muscular person though, so haven't noticed any changes there.

          Another benefit I've noticed is that my tolerance for cold water has translated into cold tolerance more generally. This is nice, as it allows me to turn the thermostat down and save money. I recently moved into a new place that only has a wood stove, so now it means less carrying wood this next winter.

          Great thread!
          Web: EricGarza.info
          Twitter: @EricGarzaVT
          Facebook: Eric Garza

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          • #50
            Now I have read that air-cooling does work, but it takes longer, a year and a half. I started with air cooling and then ramped up all my improvements when I went to cool tap water. For me, light CT increased my appetite greatly at first, but after a few weeks it lessened. When I switched to colder tap water, it really cut the hunger. I am looking forward to fall and winter, when the outdoor tub water will get quite cold in the mornings. My theory is that the more intense cold takes down any blood sugar issues immediately, and then insulin will also stay down, keeping hunger low. It would be interesting to see a study comparing what happens in light CT for people doing VLC vs. "safe" starches. I'll bet the safe starch people would have a harder time and would shiver more. Cause, really, if you have to warm yourself up and the sugar is plentiful and even excessive, why not use it before burning fat? Both methods work fine all on their own, but I'll bet the safe starch folks are a bit rusty on the fat-burning unless they have been doing IF or intense exercise regularly.

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            • #51
              Originally posted by Paleobirdy View Post
              For me, light CT increased my appetite greatly at first, but after a few weeks it lessened. When I switched to colder tap water, it really cut the hunger.
              Glad to hear it lessens. I am still doing a fast-5 (or 6 or so) so I can make it through the morning, but once my window opens, sometimes I feel like I could eat everything in sight. The neighbors cows are all shaped like t-bones I am still doing okay though I think, and still keeping carbs 50 - 60, and a big chunk of that was a banana.

              Last night I was reading PB (I thought it was about time to do that) and for some reason, I kept thinking about Titanic and how those ppl must have felt. What I need to do, is get DD's kindle, and start reading 50 Shades of Grey. I bet I could stay in there for hours....
              Last edited by gopintos; 06-06-2012, 07:01 AM.
              65lbs gone and counting!!

              Fat 2 Fit - One Woman's Journey

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              • #52
                Originally posted by Eric G View Post
                Another benefit I've noticed is that my tolerance for cold water has translated into cold tolerance more generally. This is nice, as it allows me to turn the thermostat down and save money. I recently moved into a new place that only has a wood stove, so now it means less carrying wood this next winter.

                Great thread!
                I remember last winter I turned ours down also. To save money but also because I heard it on Dr Oz or some place. I had forgotten until I started reading this thread, that I did that & why, and I remember someone mentioning it was a little cold in here and DD saying, yal, Mom is on a diet so we all have to freeze (or something smart A$$y like that)
                65lbs gone and counting!!

                Fat 2 Fit - One Woman's Journey

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                • #53
                  I started taking all my showers cold years ago. Though my motivation was to reduce my gas bill. Yay to added benefits I may have been reaping!

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                  • #54
                    I might ice later on, got my Life n Style to flip through.

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by BestBetter View Post
                      I have some questions about eating and CT. As I was reading through the first CT thread, I saw it mentioned not to eat a huge fatty meal directly afterward, and I think someone said it should be done on an empty stomach, while someone else mentioned eating a big fatty meal shortly beforehand. I may be remembering this wrong, so for clarification:

                      1) Should you do CT on an empty stomach? (If so, is 2 hours sufficient to wait after eating a meal, or should it be longer?)

                      2) Is the timing of foods different if one is doing an ice bath vs. spot icing on the stomach or legs?

                      3) How long after CT should one wait before eating?

                      4) Theoretically, is the macro breakdown important in that meals that day? (For example, should I do ice baths on my high fat/low carbs days, or is it just as ok to do them on my higher carb/lower fat days?)
                      There is just not enough data for anyone to say what is best. I do recall a rodent study (for what that's worth) where they raised animals in a cold environment and fed some high fat and others low fat and the fat fed animals ate more calories and maintained while the low fat group ate more and gained more.

                      People doing Cold Water Therapy (CWT, new term here!) say to eat a high fat meal before doing CWT as it makes you less prone to over eat afterwards, I personally, never gave much thought to how I ate before or after except to not be tempted to pig-out after I warmed up and got hungry.

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Leida View Post
                        I dunno, cold weather always make me want a lot of hot food, and when I walk outdoors when it is cold, my appetite heightens. If I ever lose appetite at all it is when it is too hot, not too cold.
                        That's really cool you lived in Russia and got to know the culture. Cold weather makes me hungry, too. Here in Alaska, it is very normal--almost expected--that you will gain 10-20lbs over our 6 month winter. The thing is, it's dark most of the time, damn cold outside, and you tend to be a couch potatoe and eat lots of carbs. What I'm talking about with cold killing hunger is the period when you are truly cold, ie. your skin cold sensors are all experiencing cold, you are shivering or about to shiver and you are truly cold. Take a walk outside when it's colder than 10 deg F with just light clothing, or soak in 50 degree water...you won't be hungry. There is a well-studied reason for this, when the cold sensors in the skin, explained a few posts back start releasing potassium ions via the TRPM8 channels, it changes leptin sensitivity in the body. I played around with this last winter. After my evening meal I get the urger to snack. I can usually fight it off. Some days I would puposely eat a very small dinner, then work out. Afterwards, I'd go outside and do some chores, like shoveling snow or stacking wood, in the cold and sure enough the hunger would disappear.

                        So, anyway, that's what I'm talking about when I say cold kills hunger.
                        Last edited by otzi; 06-06-2012, 10:04 AM.

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                        • #57
                          I was born in Russia and made the move only after the Uni, so heh, nothing to be proud of culturally. I worked on the rigs for a while, as a field trainee, cementing oil wells. Spent the whole Canadian fall, winter and the spring out in the field, at very odd hours. We were always freezing and I gained about 10 lbs during the time. Never lost my appetite. Ate mostly full fat yogurt, boiled frozen veggies, fish and chocolate. Hey, I was 23, and directly out of the Uni into the roughneck country, leaving in a motel the entire time.

                          I feel noticeably less hungry when it's really hot; in fact, if it goes over +30 degrees C, I am happy with just eating watermelon. When I am on the verge of hypothermia, say standing on the bus stop at -30 degrees C, I normally have visions of thick pea and ham hocks soup and steaming hot sweet chocolate or similar foods.
                          My Journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread57916.html
                          When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be.

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                          • #58
                            Cold/Leptin Study

                            This is the abstract from the mouse study I mentioned earlier. I'm not making this stuff up! It is very fascinating...

                            Leptin receptor gene expression has been measured in arcuate and ventromedial hypothalamic nuclei. Receptor mRNA in both hypothalamic areas was higher in obese mice than in lean littermates. Twice daily leptin administration for 7 days profoundly affected food intake, reduced leptin receptor mRNA in the arcuate nucleus, and had a similar effect on neuropeptide Y gene expression. A single leptin injection was ineffective. Exposure of lean mice to cold for 24 h caused an induction of leptin receptor and NPY mRNA which was normalized when animals were returned to the warm. Regulation of receptor gene expression may be an important component in the reading of the leptin signal.

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                            • #59
                              Same goes for me. I never feel hungry when I'm super hot, but I can really chow down on stuff when it's cold.
                              My chocolatey Primal journey

                              Unusual food recipes (plus chocolate) blog

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                              • #60
                                Human leptin/cold study

                                Here's an experiment done with human subjects: Autonomic responsiveness to acute cold exposure in obese and non-obese young women. - Abstract - UK PubMed Central

                                OBJECTIVE: Conflicting results have emerged over the nature of autonomic nervous system abnormalities in human obesity. This present study was designed to investigate the sympatho-vagal activities and their responsiveness to acute cold exposure in age- and height-matched obese and non-obese young women.

                                SUBJECTS: Twenty-four age- and height-matched obese (Weight: 68.1 +/- 2.64 kg, BMI: 26.3 +/- 0.74 kg/m2, %Fat: 39.9 +/- 1.23%) and non-obese young women (Weight: 46.9 +/- 0.77 kg, BMI: 18.5 +/- 0.18 kg/m2, %Fat: 22.9 +/- 0.8%).

                                MEASUREMENTS: Plasma leptin, insulin, glucose and lipid concentrations were measured at rest. The sympathetic (SNS) and parasympathetic (PNS) nervous system activities were assessed by means of power spectral analysis of heart rate variability (HRV) for 15 min under control (25 degrees C) or acute cold exposure (10 degrees C) conditions. The very low (VLO) frequency component, and SNS (low/high power), and PNS (high/total power) indexes were used to evaluate thermoregulatory sympathetic function, and cardiac sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous activities, respectively.

                                RESULTS: Plasma leptin concentration was significantly greater in the obese than in the control group (47.3 +/- 7.00 vs 12.1 +/- 1.22 ng.ml-1, P < 0.001). There was a highly positive correlation between plasma leptin concentration and percent of body fat (r = 0.863, P < 0.001). During the resting condition, there was no significant difference in any of the parameters of the HRV between the obese and control groups. Upon acute cold exposure, the VLO frequency component associated with thermoregulation (309 +/- 49.9 vs 578 +/- 142.2 ms2, P < 0.05) as well as its responsiveness (25-10 degrees C delta changes: 17 +/- 82.9 vs 326 +/- 138.2 ms2, P < 0.05) were significantly lower in the obese than in the control group.

                                CONCLUSION: Our data indicate that a reduced autonomic, especially sympathetic responsiveness associated with thermoregulation and possibly leptin resistance might be aetiological factors of obesity in young women.
                                Last edited by otzi; 06-06-2012, 10:03 AM.

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