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Cold Water for Fat Loss, Muscle Recovery, and Increased Metabolism Thread

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  • Paysan

    I understand he has some podcasts available for his different blog series. I know he is hard to read, but listening to him, his intelligence shines through.
    Learning the intricacies of healthy eating and nourishing my body the right way.
    I am not bald, that is a Vitamin D collector. Time to Grok and Roll!
    Eased into a primal diet starting at Christmas 2011. Goal weight - 205 started: 240 pounds waist 40, now 227 pounds and waist 38 Summer 2012 - weight =215 and waist is actually still 39"
    ljbprrfmof = LJ = Little John = John

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    • Originally posted by Paysan View Post
      Man, talk about being confused. On the one hand, Kruse discourages cardiac patients from doing cold thermogenesis. OTOH, he bragged that CT 7 on his blog would show such people just how beneficial CT is - how the whole pix fits together. I never considered myself stupid, but some of his verbal shorthand is leaving me still confused. I'm sure some pieces of the puzzle must be hiding under bigger pieces, and I need to rearrange some pieces to see the whole picture. If anybody else has good translation skills and wants to pop in, I'd appreciate the assist.
      Dumkoff Paysan
      as an MD he absolutely cannot recommend some things openly.

      he would get sued

      read everything critically and make your own choice.
      Optimum Health powered by Actualized Self-Knowledge.

      Predator not Prey
      Paleo Ketogenic Lifestyle

      CW 315 | SW 506
      Current Jeans 46 | Starting Jeans 66


      Contact me: quelsen@gmail.com

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Paysan View Post
        Man, talk about being confused. On the one hand, Kruse discourages cardiac patients from doing cold thermogenesis. OTOH, he bragged that CT 7 on his blog would show such people just how beneficial CT is - how the whole pix fits together. I never considered myself stupid, but some of his verbal shorthand is leaving me still confused. I'm sure some pieces of the puzzle must be hiding under bigger pieces, and I need to rearrange some pieces to see the whole picture. If anybody else has good translation skills and wants to pop in, I'd appreciate the assist.
        Dumkoff Paysan
        Here is a blog from a young lady who was as confused as you, she put together a bunch or resources for people curious about using the cold to their advantage: Resources on Cold Adaptation | Intoxicated on Life

        A recent article This View of Life: Take a Cold Shower! states that:
        "The benefits of a cold shower, while largely anecdotal, are recommended for everything from hangovers to excessive libidos. Despite its reputation as a quasi-folk remedy, recent research suggests exposure to cold water may help treat depression, anxiety and even attention-deficit disorders. The invigorating effects of cold water are apparent to all of us who have accidentally opened the cold tap in the shower or purposefully jumped into a swimming pool. The shock of cold water on our skin generates an active and near immediate response from our sympathetic nervous system, the activity of which is regulated in the brain through the release of signaling molecules called neurotransmitters. Norepinephrine is the primary neurotransmitter responsible for the sympathetic “fight or flight” responses we experience during times of stress, panic and anger. The activity of the sympathetic nervous system can also be elicited by environmental stressors, like exposure to cold temperatures. Norepinephrine is synthesized primarily in the locus coeruleus, a part of the brainstem in constant communication with most of the brain."


        When I started this thread, I'd hoped we could keep it a Kruse-Free zone. I wanted to focus on Mark Sisson's view of cold water therapy. All Mark's articles are linked on the first page, I believe. If you want to get in over your head, visit Home | JackKruse.com . Keep in mind Dr. Kruse in not interested in simple weight-loss and general health. His optic is a healthy gut and central nervous system stimulation via evolutionary pathways in order to heal the most metabolically deranged folks. Much of what he says is easily taken out of context. He may prescribe a course of action for a post-menopausal woman with hashimoto's that is not right for a healthy young man who is 20lbs overweight.
        Last edited by otzi; 08-30-2012, 11:40 AM.

        Comment


        • Funny enough, this is in today's news. Stanford researchers' cooling glove 'better than steroids'

          "The method is more convenient than, say, full-body submersion in ice water, and avoids the pitfalls of other rapid palm-cooling strategies. Because blood flow to the AVAs can be nearly shut off in cold weather, making the hand too cold will have almost no effect on core temperature. Cooling, Grahn says, is therefore a delicate balance.

          "We built a silly device, took it over to the recovery room and, lo and behold, it worked beyond our wildest imaginations," Heller explained. "Whereas it was taking them hours to re-warm patients coming into the recovery room, we were doing it in eight, nine minutes."

          But the glove's effects on athletic performance didn't become apparent until the researchers began using the glove to cool a member of the lab – the confessed "gym rat" and frequent coauthor Vinh Cao – between sets of pull-ups. The glove seemed to nearly erase his muscle fatigue; after multiple rounds, cooling allowed him to do just as many pull-ups as he did the first time around. So the researchers started cooling him after every other set of pull-ups.

          "Then in the next six weeks he went from doing 180 pull-ups total to over 620," said Heller. "That was a rate of physical performance improvement that was just unprecedented."

          The researchers applied the cooling method to other types of exercise – bench press, running, cycling. In every case, rates of gain in recovery were dramatic, without any evidence of the body being damaged by overwork – hence the "better than steroids" claim. Versions of the glove have since been adopted by the Stanford football and track and field teams, as well as other college athletics programs, the San Francisco 49ers, the Oakland Raiders and Manchester United soccer club.

          Comment


          • Here's another great resource. They are selling cooling vests for the general public...not just the big sports teams.

            https://www.coolfatburner.com//

            Lots of science links and pics.

            Comment


            • For most of my adult life I finished off my shower with a half minute to a minute of ice cold shower. I thought it was a good practice. In 2005, right after my shower I experienced an incident of transient global amnesia. This is a rare condition that only effects about 1 in 20,000 people and one of the triggers happened to be immersion in cold water. So, I stopped. Transient global amnesia lasts about 12 - 18 hours, and I lost memory of the previous 6 weeks for that period, and lost all short term memory (longer than about 15 seconds into the past for about 12 hours). There's no long term effects. It is basically a back-wash of blood in a portion of the brain that erases all short term memory and several weeks or months of long term memory for that short period of time.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by otzi View Post
                Here's another great resource. They are selling cooling vests for the general public...not just the big sports teams.

                https://www.coolfatburner.com//

                Lots of science links and pics.
                Kewlness. $60? I think I will keep tucking my oblong vacuum sealed bag into my drawers when I watch TV, then lay on it when I go to bed
                65lbs gone and counting!!

                Fat 2 Fit - One Woman's Journey

                Comment


                • Originally posted by gopintos View Post
                  Kewlness. $60? I think I will keep tucking my oblong vacuum sealed bag into my drawers when I watch TV, then lay on it when I go to bed
                  Ok, so I showed this to DH. And he said... so did you order one? He is thinking it would be good for him to wear home on his motorcycle, on these 100+ days.
                  65lbs gone and counting!!

                  Fat 2 Fit - One Woman's Journey

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by quelsen View Post
                    as an MD he absolutely cannot recommend some things openly.

                    he would get sued

                    read everything critically and make your own choice.
                    I understand the liability factor, since I have a grown daughter recently in the medical field. I read critically as well, but with less and less comprehension (it's called brain fog) as the day goes on. Maybe I had better do my reading in the morning - but then I'd accomplish nothing the rest of the day. ;-)

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by otzi View Post
                      ...
                      When I started this thread, I'd hoped we could keep it a Kruse-Free zone. I wanted to focus on Mark Sisson's view of cold water therapy. All Mark's articles are linked on the first page, I believe. If you want to get in over your head, visit Home | JackKruse.com . Keep in mind Dr. Kruse in not interested in simple weight-loss and general health. His optic is a healthy gut and central nervous system stimulation via evolutionary pathways in order to heal the most metabolically deranged folks. Much of what he says is easily taken out of context. He may prescribe a course of action for a post-menopausal woman with hashimoto's that is not right for a healthy young man who is 20lbs overweight.
                      Now that I understand. Each of us is individual, or as Quelson/Jon says -My broken is not your broken. I look at Kruse's recommendation as merely better informed opinions, but still opinions, since he mixes facts with unsupported speculation. And I filter it all through my years of personal experience, proximity alarms to b.s. factors, and yes, MY OPINION, to decide if it sounds both reasonable and unlikely to be harmful if done by his methods. I see a lot of people who jump in with enthusiasm, use colder cold than advisable to start, tweak advice and maybe put themselves in harm's way because they missed the caveats. We've all done it. It's totally human, and just as human to blame the idea man, and not our own implementation of the idea.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by otzi View Post
                        Funny enough, this is in today's news. Stanford researchers' cooling glove 'better than steroids'

                        "The method is more convenient than, say, full-body submersion in ice water, and avoids the pitfalls of other rapid palm-cooling strategies. Because blood flow to the AVAs can be nearly shut off in cold weather, making the hand too cold will have almost no effect on core temperature. Cooling, Grahn says, is therefore a delicate balance.

                        "We built a silly device, took it over to the recovery room and, lo and behold, it worked beyond our wildest imaginations," Heller explained. "Whereas it was taking them hours to re-warm patients coming into the recovery room, we were doing it in eight, nine minutes."

                        But the glove's effects on athletic performance didn't become apparent until the researchers began using the glove to cool a member of the lab the confessed "gym rat" and frequent coauthor Vinh Cao between sets of pull-ups. The glove seemed to nearly erase his muscle fatigue; after multiple rounds, cooling allowed him to do just as many pull-ups as he did the first time around. So the researchers started cooling him after every other set of pull-ups.

                        "Then in the next six weeks he went from doing 180 pull-ups total to over 620," said Heller. "That was a rate of physical performance improvement that was just unprecedented."

                        The researchers applied the cooling method to other types of exercise bench press, running, cycling. In every case, rates of gain in recovery were dramatic, without any evidence of the body being damaged by overwork hence the "better than steroids" claim. Versions of the glove have since been adopted by the Stanford football and track and field teams, as well as other college athletics programs, the San Francisco 49ers, the Oakland Raiders and Manchester United soccer club.
                        I immediately had visions of some sort of trunk swaddle that would accomplish the same, reduce heat from exercise and in MS
                        patients as a means of coping with their disability. The best I could come up with is submerging in cool to cold water while accompanied by an adult with enough smarts to keep his/her eyes open, and be ready to intervene. Doggonit, I'd just be reinventing the wheel! I have long been aware of cold thermogenesis, but needed a practical guide, some irrefutable evidence ... and a swift kick to get me off my duff and actually doing it. So, I've started. How far I go is according to my individual circumstances, but you won't catch me chopping holes in ice to take my cold bath.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by otzi View Post
                          Here's another great resource. They are selling cooling vests for the general public...not just the big sports teams.

                          https://www.coolfatburner.com//

                          Lots of science links and pics.
                          This falls intro the category of Kewl Stuff on which to blow dough you don't have on stuff you don't need. ;-) There is always another nifty device around the next corner. Ice packs I've got. Cold weather is approaching. People living with the cold (like the older Inuit) would consider us crazy to buy things to make us cold. Just remove layers of clothing d watch your fingers turn blue.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Bob-Tao View Post
                            For most of my adult life I finished off my shower with a half minute to a minute of ice cold shower. I thought it was a good practice. In 2005, right after my shower I experienced an incident of transient global amnesia. This is a rare condition that only effects about 1 in 20,000 people and one of the triggers happened to be immersion in cold water. So, I stopped. Transient global amnesia lasts about 12 - 18 hours, and I lost memory of the previous 6 weeks for that period, and lost all short term memory (longer than about 15 seconds into the past for about 12 hours). There's no long term effects. It is basically a back-wash of blood in a portion of the brain that erases all short term memory and several weeks or months of long term memory for that short period of time.
                            No matter how rare it is, Bob, when it happens to you, it isn't rare enough! After losing a good part of my short term memory with my stroke, I consider that a severe warning to you that you can't jump from a sauna into a snow bank or icy river, no matter how many Swedes do it! That is definitely a yellow light in your n=1 experiment. I would expect, however, that you could ease into cool water via the "Croak" method w/o harm to your grey matter. ;-)

                            Comment


                            • I have a stupid question.

                              If human bodies operate at an optimal temperature of 98.6, why would we feel the most comfortable and have to work the least to feel comfortable at environmental temperaures in the mid 70s? Why don't we feel better when our internal temps are at equilibrium with outside temps - for example when it's 98 degrees in the summer?

                              Comment


                              • Interesting question. I could not imagine being comfortable in 98. Kind of like inside of a car in the summer. As the temps go up on the outside, the inside gets even hotter.

                                I was thinking of a question last night, as I was laying in bed on my icepack. How does brown fat on my back, burn the bad fat elsewhere like on my tummy?
                                65lbs gone and counting!!

                                Fat 2 Fit - One Woman's Journey

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