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Cold Water for Fat Loss, Muscle Recovery, and Increased Metabolism Thread

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  • Originally posted by gopintos View Post
    OT, but been reading on another thread, that too much protein throws you out of ketosis. Any insight? One doctor (I think a doctor) suggests to convert your Ideal Weight to Kilos, and then take that number plus/minus 10% and that is how many grams of protein you should have each day. It further suggests to figure your grams of carbs, take your kilo number times 2. To figure your fat, take that number times 2-3.
    Figuring carbs is your ideal weight in kilos divided by 2 not times 2. Otherwise you got it right. This is loosely base on the work of Dr. Jan Kwasniewski's Optimal Diet.

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    • Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
      Figuring carbs is your ideal weight in kilos divided by 2 not times 2. Otherwise you got it right. This is loosely base on the work of Dr. Jan Kwasniewski's Optimal Diet.

      oops my bad. I shouldnt post so early in the mornings
      65lbs gone and counting!!

      Fat 2 Fit - One Woman's Journey

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      • Originally posted by Paysan View Post
        I'm too much of a wimp for cold showers, but spend time in a cooling house in minimum clothing and footwear. It was only 5C here this am. I deliberately feel cool, as opposed to my former huddling with extra layers of clothes and the furnace on. . . . My weight hasn't budged, but ... health first.
        Health first indeed.

        The cooling house sounds ideal from my perspective. If it stays above 0C, you don't run out of air, you time your exposure and no one can lock you in from the outside it should work well for you. Naked with a pair of fans would kick it up a notch and speed things along when you get to feeling 'advanced'.

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        • Originally posted by Jamous View Post
          Health first indeed.

          The cooling house sounds ideal from my perspective. If it stays above 0C, you don't run out of air, you time your exposure and no one can lock you in from the outside it should work well for you. Naked with a pair of fans would kick it up a notch and speed things along when you get to feeling 'advanced'.
          Unfortunately, others live in my house as well, and either going naked could result in their instant blindness, or sinking to 0C would guarantee a constant battle. It'll be frosty outside soon enough, and I'll see how far this wimpy person will go.

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          • I have my ice pack on Yeah me! I remembered! And it gives me the head to toe shiver-shakes sometimes. I am going to take it to bed with me later also. It will be semi-melted by then probably. I normally get hot on & off all night, but last week I had a hard time going back to sleep. I don't know if it was due to that, or that my brain wouldnt shut off once I was awake.
            65lbs gone and counting!!

            Fat 2 Fit - One Woman's Journey

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            • Originally posted by Paysan View Post
              Unfortunately, others live in my house as well, and either going naked could result in their instant blindness, or sinking to 0C would guarantee a constant battle. It'll be frosty outside soon enough, and I'll see how far this wimpy person will go.
              I thought that your use of 'cooling house' described a separate building or walk-in refrigerator. My mistake.

              In my personal experimentation with air cooling when I chill in cold air with fans even a thin undershirt and briefs can spoil the chill.

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              • Originally posted by Jamous View Post
                I thought that your use of 'cooling house' described a separate building or walk-in refrigerator. My mistake.

                In my personal experimentation with air cooling when I chill in cold air with fans even a thin undershirt and briefs can spoil the chill.
                How are your experiments going, or is it too soon to have come to any conclusions? I know Dr Kruse felt that cold water is much more effective for cold thermogenesis than air, but we do what we can.

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                • Originally posted by Paysan View Post
                  How are your experiments going, or is it too soon to have come to any conclusions? I know Dr Kruse felt that cold water is much more effective for cold thermogenesis than air, but we do what we can.
                  Yes, cold water will suck heat out of you faster than cold still air of the same temperature but the cold air *will* suck heat out of you and a fan's 15 mph wind will suck it out quite fast while still slower than water. Unlike liquid fresh water, which is never below freezing, an air stream at freezing temperatures can freeze your flesh solid in "a New York minute". So don't do naked wind chill in freezing air. In extreme cold weather, liquid fresh water would be safer.

                  When the air temperature is at the target of 55 F or lower what I do with fans will bring my naked skin to that temperature and keep it there for as long as I can stay in the air stream. It takes longer to do it than with water however. I may be in the stream for 10 minutes before my skin gets to the target temperature. There is therefore no sudden cold shock but Just as with water the colder the temperature the deeper the chill and the more the blood in my arms and legs will be sequestered from the cold yielding a stronger after chill as it is returned.

                  At about 50 F and below I have experienced my hands start to go numb and I will hide them from the air stream in order to have enough coordination to put my clothes back on 45 minutes later. The coldest 47 F session I did last May had me fumbling like a drunk trying to put my under shorts and shirt back on in order to come out of my little wind tunnel.

                  A good air conditioner will produce air at about 40 F. Expose some of your naked skin to an air conditioner for a few minutes. Then think about a whole body air bath with a 15 mph air stream front and rear at that temperature. So yes, cold air wind chill will work for what I am after. I had dramatic positive sleep changes and reduced systemic inflammation mere days after I started cold wind sessions in May.

                  I like the freedom of movement that I have standing up in the air stream.
                  I like being dry and ready to go as soon as I switch off the fans.
                  I like not having to maintain a cold tub.

                  I don't know how cold my unheated pool will get this winter but I will watch the temps now that I care and maybe give swimming in it a go too.
                  Last edited by Jamous; 08-27-2012, 10:27 PM.

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                  • Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
                    Figuring carbs is your ideal weight in kilos divided by 2 not times 2. Otherwise you got it right. This is loosely base on the work of Dr. Jan Kwasniewski's Optimal Diet.
                    Haven't looked at this much,
                    Is that formula to stay in ketosis?

                    So if someones ideal weight is 100kg, then this works out to, less than 50g carb to stay keto?
                    "There are no short cuts to enlightenment, the journey is the destination, you have to walk this path alone"

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                    • Originally posted by Omni View Post
                      Haven't looked at this much,
                      Is that formula to stay in ketosis?

                      So if someones ideal weight is 100kg, then this works out to, less than 50g carb to stay keto?
                      Yep. It is what is referred to as nutritional ketosis, a deep sustained state.

                      The formula is Ideal Weight in kilos=grams of protein/day take this with a plus/minus 10% range as your target.
                      For carbs, Ideal Weight divided by 2 is the upper end target to shoot for
                      For fat, Ideal Weight times anywhere between 2 and 3.5 depending on weight loss goals (high end to gain, middle for maintenance, low end to lose)

                      It's pretty powerful stuff. I'm doing it in order to be able to reduce my dependence on anti-seizure meds. 25% reduction so far with no ill effects.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
                        Yep. It is what is referred to as nutritional ketosis, a deep sustained state.

                        The formula is Ideal Weight in kilos=grams of protein/day take this with a plus/minus 10% range as your target.
                        For carbs, Ideal Weight divided by 2 is the upper end target to shoot for
                        For fat, Ideal Weight times anywhere between 2 and 3.5 depending on weight loss goals (high end to gain, middle for maintenance, low end to lose)

                        It's pretty powerful stuff. I'm doing it in order to be able to reduce my dependence on anti-seizure meds. 25% reduction so far with no ill effects.
                        Thanks,
                        I haven't really taken too much time to add up my intakes, did a rough calc a while back and reckon I'm around the 100-150g of Carbs, so in the maintenance range, maybe dipped lower some days, so my only real keto times are in the fasting state, but probably no significant GlucoGenesis.
                        Will take note for future reference.
                        "There are no short cuts to enlightenment, the journey is the destination, you have to walk this path alone"

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                        • I know I sound like a broken record for repeatedly posting how amazing I'm dealing with the heat, but I continued to be impressed with my body's ability to adjust to such a wide range of temps after doing the ice baths.

                          One reason I'm so stuck on this is because I have MS. Most folks with MS are VERY heat sensitive. In fact, before we had technology like MRIs and lumbar punctures, the main method of diagnosing it was to stick the person in a hot water bath; if it induced instant fatigue that prevented them from being able to get out, they got slapped with the diagnosis.

                          After a week of 100 degree weather, now that it's in the high 80s, I actually miss the heat!

                          In other news, got some nasty tendonitis (self-diagnosis) in my knee. I'm going to see if daily ice packs speed recovery time. I know I must have read this somewhere ages ago, but is there any healing benefit to cold baths (50-55F tap water), not ice baths? Now that I'm staying at my in-laws, I've got access to a sweeeet tub, but no ability to make or buy ice (they don't sell ice in Italy, can you believe it!) I know ice water speeds recovery, but I don't remember if there's a benefit to UN-iced cold water.

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                          • Originally posted by Jamous View Post
                            Yes, cold water will suck heat out of you faster than cold still air of the same temperature but the cold air *will* suck heat out of you and a fan's 15 mph wind will suck it out quite fast while still slower than water. Unlike liquid fresh water, which is never below freezing, an air stream at freezing temperatures can freeze your flesh solid in "a New York minute". So don't do naked wind chill in freezing air. In extreme cold weather, liquid fresh water would be safer.
                            Thank you for this caution, Jamous. It wouldn't have occurred to me to beware of air temperature as much as water temperature. Still, it's skin temperature that you need to watch, since I believe 55F is the target for most people. You are courting hypothermia below that - small wonder you acted drunk at 47C.. Your core temperature dropped too low, and that is downright dangerous. My mate is already subject to that, and at 92F, is incapable of doing anything till warmed up.

                            Originally posted by Jamous View Post
                            When the air temperature is at the target of 55 F or lower what I do with fans will bring my naked skin to that temperature and keep it there for as long as I can stay in the air stream. It takes longer to do it than with water however. I may be in the stream for 10 minutes before my skin gets to the target temperature. There is therefore no sudden cold shock but Just as with water the colder the temperature the deeper the chill and the more the blood in my arms and legs will be sequestered from the cold yielding a stronger after chill as it is returned.
                            With my cardiac problems, that is likely too much shock to my system. But if what's-his-name figures even 80F water brings benefits, and I am sitting in air temps of 70F (and less with a/c blowing directly on me), I am hopeful to gain some benefits w/o severe stress.

                            [
                            Originally posted by Jamous View Post
                            A good air conditioner will produce air at about 40 F. Expose some of your naked skin to an air conditioner for a few minutes. Then think about a whole body air bath with a 15 mph air stream front and rear at that temperature. So yes, cold air wind chill will work for what I am after. I had dramatic positive sleep changes and reduced systemic inflammation mere days after I started cold wind sessions in May.

                            I like the freedom of movement that I have standing up in the air stream.
                            I like being dry and ready to go as soon as I switch off the fans.
                            I like not having to maintain a cold tub.

                            I don't know how cold my unheated pool will get this winter but I will watch the temps now that I care and maybe give swimming in it a go too.
                            If I still had a pool, it would freeze solid and stay there most of winter. So then ice skating, not ice dipping, might be more appropriate.;-) Regardless, I've always stood cold better than heat. This n=1 experiment is interesting.
                            Last edited by Paysan; 08-28-2012, 01:41 PM.

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                            • Originally posted by BestBetter View Post
                              In other news, got some nasty tendonitis (self-diagnosis) in my knee. I'm going to see if daily ice packs speed recovery time. I know I must have read this somewhere ages ago, but is there any healing benefit to cold baths (50-55F tap water), not ice baths? Now that I'm staying at my in-laws, I've got access to a sweeeet tub, but no ability to make or buy ice (they don't sell ice in Italy, can you believe it!) I know ice water speeds recovery, but I don't remember if there's a benefit to UN-iced cold water.
                              If you have access to 50-55 F tap water and a large tub to fit in the whole body then you are *golden*.
                              That is the experimental skin temperature range that produces the favorable hormonal changes.
                              Go for whole body cooling because that will do more for your inflammation than just spot icing. I speak also from personal experience. It may be easier to do as well.

                              Lucky you, you have a fountain of youth in your dwelling!

                              Comment


                              • Man, talk about being confused. On the one hand, Kruse discourages cardiac patients from doing cold thermogenesis. OTOH, he bragged that CT 7 on his blog would show such people just how beneficial CT is - how the whole pix fits together. I never considered myself stupid, but some of his verbal shorthand is leaving me still confused. I'm sure some pieces of the puzzle must be hiding under bigger pieces, and I need to rearrange some pieces to see the whole picture. If anybody else has good translation skills and wants to pop in, I'd appreciate the assist.
                                Dumkoff Paysan

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