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  • #31
    No, not exactly, however your BMRs will adjust in relation with your new weight so if you don't adjust your intake then you will regain and/or plateau. Many folks don't realize this fact which contributes to weight gain when exercise stops and diet isn't properly adjusted..
    Once I starved out the nutrients, I could not keep up caloric deficit on the level that was needed to keep losing weight. Starvation signals are much more exaggerated. You tend to hit the point when your intake is so low, and you burn so little through the exercise that shifting the fat is just impossible, unless you are confined by a dreadful foe to a cell and not fed.

    I am one of 8% who cannot, absolutely cannot "shut up the cake-hole". But I will not be able to survive on coconut butter and meat for 6 weeks either. 10 hours is my personal best on pure fat. Obviously, every morning I am determined to do whatever it takes to lose fat, but by mid-afternoon it turns out that i am not capable. Not to mention organic lamb is not exactly universally available. In fact I was advised we have a shortage here, in Alberta, and I am on the waiting list for lamb for the next year.
    Last edited by Leida; 06-05-2012, 01:48 PM.
    My Journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread57916.html
    When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Leida View Post
      Once I starved out the nutrients...
      Leida, what did you mean with this phrase, exactly?
      http://stackingplates.com/

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      • #33
        No one here is saying that markers other than weight loss aren't important. It's not like a cancer patient on chemotherapy losing weight is going to cheer over their improved body composition. I'm not saying that poor blood work, hormonal problems, and nutrient deficiencies aren't important. Yes - people can and do suffer from serious legitimate medical issues that affect their metabolism... but ultimately my statement holds true. If someone is chronically fatigued due to a hormonal problem, they will have less energy to move around and do things, and hence will burn less calories, perhaps less than they eat that day, and won't lose weight.

        You know what the problem is? Someone comes to this forum asking a simple question, then everyone (seemingly self decidedly a qualified expert) starts playing House MD and rattling things off like insulin resistance, leaky gut, ketosis, thyroid enlargement ect. ect. when for 99% of us reasonably healthy healthy humans these kinds of things simply won't be an issue.

        These are all very serious problems which require time and effort to investigate and SHOULD NOT BE TAKEN LIGHTLY, and I can guarantee anyone who has to endure serious adrenal fatuige, thyroid problems, a heart attack, or diabetes, or whatever has weight loss on the back of their mind - most of these people just want to feel better and not worry about dying.

        If your weight loss stalls don't sound the alarms of all these serious conditions like the world is ending. Jesus Christ, 99.99% chance you are simply eating too many calories and you are perfectly damn fine. track your intake and eat less than your daily maintenance and BAM, fat comes off and guess what, you're perfectly fine. If you eat below your maintenance for 3 months, don't lose a pound, and your energy tanks... THEN it may be time to consider a more serious medical problem.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by primal pete View Post

          You know what the problem is? Someone comes to this forum asking a simple question, then everyone (seemingly self decidedly a qualified expert) starts playing House MD and rattling things off like insulin resistance, leaky gut, ketosis, thyroid enlargement ect. ect. when for 99% of us reasonably healthy healthy humans these kinds of things simply won't be an issue.
          Again, another spot on post.

          I've noticed folks immediately jumping to step ten before even trying step one. Pretty scary stuff...
          http://stackingplates.com/

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          • #35
            Leida, what did you mean with this phrase, exactly?
            When I was doing CW, I sadly took a test to determine my methabolic type. It came up with the recommendation that I would do best on 70% carb and under 15% fat. Together with my BMR at the time being 1300-1350 calories, and trying to hit 70% of it from carbs (which mostly consisted of whole-wheat bread, oatmeal, sugar-free jam and fruit), and my proteins coming from Source yogurt. To that add 2.5 to 3 hours a day of excercsise, mostly boot-camps and cardio, some of it teaching fitness classes while working full time and being a mom and a wife... I am pretty sure I developed serious deficiencies that lead to permanent hunger (and I am not talking 'peckish' here, I mean obsessive hunger), dizziness, fatigue and what's most interesting a slow weight gain. I have a feeling that I was running low on nutrients and my body was pushing my brain to find food, any food, that's why I was so hungry, and it was also trying to save fat, that's why I was regaining weight.
            My Journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread57916.html
            When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be.

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            • #36
              my plateau is my stress and joint issues. my stressors in my life , i cannot control, at the moment. financial being huge, and other life style stressors. so i believe my cortisol is probably off the chain. can't sprint, did it once , was hurt for months. rotator in shoulder limits weight training and even body weight stuff, so that failure is stressful also. i eat a frittata every day. no lunch, high protein dinners, steak, chicken,salmon, always some veg. steamed always. basically, stopped snacking. having a few dental issues so, eating less nuts and stuff, another stress issue is affording to get the needed dental stuff. I am trying to stay positive, but very hard to know what to do? seems like what i read, Iam not eating enough to lose, but I am just not hungry any more. fasting is easy but not sure if it is the right thing to do. is their other ways to offset the high cortisol and all the negative effects? will increasing my calories help? I live in s. fla and walking is tough. I chafe like hell. so can't walk the way i would like, at times. I am down to one cup coffee still over a liter-2 water, and kefir. should I eat more? not even hungry at dinner anymore, just eat because supposed to eat a certain amount of calories? recently have kicked up my exercise a notch. what would be the best way to get off this plateau. been primal 8 mos. zero offmy waist, nto sure abio=out weight. think is still 226. 5'10

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              • #37
                If you are not hungry, do not eat more. In fact, always eat only when hungry, and stop when you are no longer hungry (not full, rather no longer hungry). Your body knows better than a calculator how much it needs. If you are full & don't experience desire to eat any more, you are likely at maintenance. Take away 1/4 of what you eat at every meal. If you consistently run deficits, your hunger will start increasing and become more persistent. Do not afraid to reefed when and if it happens. Try a 14 hr fast, and see if you can eat as if you did not fast after that. If it triggers binge, do not fast. With the workouts do only what you can do; the goal is to get healthier, not to get hurt.
                My Journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread57916.html
                When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be.

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                • #38
                  Gotcha, thanks for elaborating, Leida. Pretty scary stuff you were practicing there, and I'm sorry for the advice you were being given at the time. Reading that reminded me a lot of the asinine program "Metamorphosis" as I had a gal recently ask me if it was a good investment.

                  I really think that identifying macro/micro-nutrient needs early on is important because it makes everything else so much easier. With apps like MyFitnessPal and others doing the tracking for you, it really has become that much easier to calculate. Once you have an idea of BMR/TDEE then simply calculate your PRO/FAT requirements for the day. If you've met micro-nutrient sufficiency along with PRO/FAT then many folks will actually find that they have a lot of "wiggle room" at their disposal. Whether you choose to fill that "wiggle room" with ice cream, veggies, fruits, pizza, chicken, etc becomes much more freedom of choice. I think that helps with long term compliance in a major way because you tend to look forward to these free choices each day...
                  http://stackingplates.com/

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                  • #39
                    Thank you everyone for opinions and suggestions! I don't have time to address everything specifically but I will point out a few things.

                    -My weekend cheats are not as severe as some of you seem to be imagining. I'd still be under 150g carbs easy, but that feels a lot different to being under 50 or 20g. I'd eat things like corn, or some dairy, or have a coffee. I once had a piece of bread. They're not major blowouts, it's just that I do have quite a social life so I often go to events and am away from home all weekend so being 100% primal isn't very doable at all times.

                    Primal pete: With all due respect, you are talking to me like a typical doctor (who some in this community love to demonise) would talk to someone eating the SAD who can't lose weight. Please don't patronise me and act like I'm not tracking my calories in and calories out adequately. I have about 30 days of stored food logging, I weighed everything, no guesswork. I'm not about to type all of that out here, but the info I provided in the first post was correct, those ratios were the ranges I had over that 30 days. I can tell you for a FACT, my calories in are less than my calories out, unless my BMR really is freakishly low for my size. I understand the concept you're pushing, and yes a lot of things boil down to burning more than you're taking in, but at this point, with constant rashes, infections and hair loss, I don't think I'm a figure of optimal health, and I feel that this is affecting my weightloss. You don't have to agree, but please don't belittle me.

                    Stackingplates: I know what you mean about jumping to step 10 before trying step 1, but for me, I have already, in most cases, tried the step 1's. I actually previously studied biochemistry & pharmacology, so I'm well versed on our bodies functionality, and also how to find, read & analyse medical research. I have researched a lot of things myself but it's difficult to know where to look sometimes, which is why I'd come to a place like this for suggestions. Thank you for being concerned about that though, I do see people suggesting really out-there things sometimes where a simple suggestion could be the answer (assuming they haven't tried that).

                    Quelsen: I wondered if someone would have a suggestion like yours. Recently I've been doing quite a lot of reading about how certain meds (like SSRI's) mess with the metabolism and the way the body processes things. Quite literally, all of my problems started after starting SSRI's. Rashes, food intolerances, irritable stomach, infections, fatigue, deficiencies, you name it. There aren't a lot of points in my health journey that are 100% identifiable, if that makes sense. Like some things, you have a hunch about, but you're not 100% sure what happened or why. But for me, the SSRI's had a definite and huge effect, it really is the turning point I identify. I gained 90lb in about 9 months while on them. I know I have huge problems with inflammation and infection.... but how to actually rid myself of it, I don't know? I have been grain-free for probably almost 2 years, with maybe 10 grain-eating moments in that time. How do you suggest I actually kick the constant infections once and for all? Because I have researched into it for hours and haven't made much progress. My prediabetic state is not helping, which is what my doctor has told me.


                    Anyway, you've all given me a lot to think about. I'm going to cut nuts/seeds for at least a few weeks, be stricter about my weekends (although they really aren't as bad as my wording may have had some of you imagining :P ), and I might consider cutting the small amount of dairy I'd reintroduced (I usually have none but being on antibiotics I started taking probiotics etc etc). It's just, those small things make primal better for me. Without it, I'm left with meat, vege, and a small amount of fruit. Which is OK, but I love spicing up my salads with cheese and nuts, I feel like they contribute to my happiness hahaha.

                    P.S. who ever said swap green tea for coffee.... where did you get that info? I have never heard of green tea lowering thyroid function, people usually push it for doing the opposite. If you read this, could you post the link/reference?
                    Current weight lost: 82.9lb (37.6kg)

                    Current PRs:
                    Bench: 45kg/99lb
                    Squat: 100kg/220lb
                    Deadlift: 120kg/265lb

                    My blog
                    My journal

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      I'm glad quelsen is back. He's always so insightful.

                      It's funny but I read something similar to queslen's thoughts just today on Loren Cordain's website. It's an old post (I've never read Cordain's blog before.)
                      Grains and the Brain
                      Apparently there is a link between fructose, obesity and mental illnesses (nixxy did not say what the SSRIs were prescribed for.)
                      Grain and the Brain | The Paleo Diet

                      Plus Cordain writes a lot about grains and leaky gut and it's spot on to the stuff quelsen mentioned. I'm really not in the mood to read another CICO debate but with the issues that you seem to have, nixxy, there could be a period of just wait and see healing to do, and you might want to take grains off the table entirely.
                      Female, 5'3", 50, Max squat: 202.5lbs. Max deadlift: 225 x 3.

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                      • #41
                        Good link, thank you. They were for anxiety and depression.

                        It makes me happy to see more health professionals coming round to "alternative" ideas. Sometimes, with all of the reading I'm doing, it makes me wonder why this hasn't caught on more. I don't think I know anyone, besides some bodybuilders I know, who pay attention to carbs/protein/fats or how their diet may be affecting their health. Sometimes I wonder "am I really searching for biased information without realising it?" which would be why all my research gives me the same conclusions... but no, my searches are often generic... the evidence just all points to the same things a lot of the time!

                        I think you're right, I need to be stricter. I have probably only had grains twice in the last 3-4 months, but I should make that zero. Perhaps I'll do the whole30, or just continue as I am but with no deviations from primal, and see how I feel after 4-6 weeks.
                        Current weight lost: 82.9lb (37.6kg)

                        Current PRs:
                        Bench: 45kg/99lb
                        Squat: 100kg/220lb
                        Deadlift: 120kg/265lb

                        My blog
                        My journal

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by primal pete View Post
                          I see all these lengthy replies but the answer to your question is simple:

                          you're not losing weight because the calories you are consuming are equal to or exceeding the amount you burn.
                          You sound as naive as those people that assume overweight people are overeating.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by primal pete View Post
                            I see all these lengthy replies but the answer to your question is simple:

                            you're not losing weight because the calories you are consuming are equal to or exceeding the amount you burn.

                            This thread, as are many others similar to it, is chalked full of overly complicated responses that don't even address this fundamental fact in a specific way. If you wish to improve your body composition by losing body fat, you need to establish a daily calorie deficit which you body compensates with by using it's own fat stores.

                            You say you don't want to agonize over food by counting calories... but I've really learned something through my own experiences: counting calories can be a bit annoying, but it's really not so hard with tools like fitday and cronometer, and you save the agony of uncertainty that comes with not counting.

                            Should I eat this, that? Not this, not that? I dunno, I dunno... I see this over and over again on this forum when people complain about not losing that last bit of fat, yet they never have a specific plan on how to do it in the first place. Why not just count, set a daily deficit goal, and not think about it for the rest of the day? People say they don't want to "agonize" over counting calories.... when in reality it takes maybe one minute to program food into fit day, then they sit on these forums and bang their heads on their desk scruitinizing the advanced details while completely ignoring the fundamentals. Heck, try and count 80% of the time...that will be better than nothing.

                            You should track your progress over a month or two and snap some pics of yourself in front of the mirror. If you don't see noticeable progress in fat loss, then you know you need to tweak things and retry - if you're not counting you'll never know what the problem is in the first place.
                            And I detest people who ridicule or belittle other people's opinions and contributions whilst simultaneously making gross generalizations about their warped insights on same said opinions and contributions. If people are taking time out to offer suggestions or opinions, who made u the godly authority on which opinion makes more sense? Believe it or not, your post was also just one of many opinions. It is pathetic how SOME people have some grandeur delusions that their opinion is somehow the overriding authority on a said issue. Your post was extremely patronizing, insulting and condescending.

                            I would assume a lot of posters here are very educated and do lots of research on this subject matter. The very fact that a lot of people have chosen to go primal here speaks volumes already. I am an A-type personality. I am extremely meticulous when it comes to counting calories and i KNOW for a fact that based on my BMR calorie calculator, even when I ate under my recommended daily allowances and exercised copious amounts per week, I would NOT lose weight when my non primal carb count was high. OBVIOUSLY I did not know THEN that it was the reason I was not losing weight. I am almost done reading Sisson's primal blueprint and now know that was the reason. I was fit af but could not lose weight and it stressed me out so much not knowing why I was not losing. I have other slight med issues mostly iron related I do not care to divulge but now I am clearer than clear that the calories in vs calories out mantra DOES NOT APPLY to my personal life situation.

                            Go have several seats.
                            Last edited by Lawyerchick12; 06-05-2012, 08:16 PM. Reason: spelling errors :)

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                            • #44
                              I'm glad you two agree with me that he was being belittling, condescending and patronising - I thought I might be over reacting.

                              His replies are like he didn't even read my post.

                              How did he think I knew my cal ratios and my daily carb intake if I wasn't tracking??

                              I won't say much more because I don't want this thread to be personal attacks, but I hope primal pete realises he's not some holier-than-thou guru and we're all idiots. No suggestion he provided has given me any insight whatsoever, I'm already doing everything he suggested. I said I don't want to count forever, not that I wasn't counting. Tracking meticulously for 30 days has given me great approximation skills, and I still track every second or third day just to be sure. The primal lifestyle, to me, will eventually be intuitive and I will maintain my health and eat at appropriate levels once my health is more optimal and I can control my hunger.


                              Lawyerchick your post could've come out of my own mouth
                              Current weight lost: 82.9lb (37.6kg)

                              Current PRs:
                              Bench: 45kg/99lb
                              Squat: 100kg/220lb
                              Deadlift: 120kg/265lb

                              My blog
                              My journal

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                I would make a couple of suggestions:

                                -it is not uncommon for weight loss to periodically slow down or stop and then start again. You could just try to be patient for a bit and see if it starts up again. In the mean time, focus on getting good sleep and playing.

                                -dairy and nuts can be a big issue for lots of people. Especially dairy for women. I would eliminate them for a few weeks.

                                -make sure you are getting plenty of nutrient dense foods. Liver at least once per week, brazil nuts (good for thyroid function), oysters for zinc, sea veggies for iodine, and bone marrow and bone stocks. I cannot lose weight unless I am healthy so it is important to keep nutrient dense foods in my diet. Did I read that you are on metformin? It can cause B12 deficiency so make sure you are eating liver and/or taking a subligual methylated B12.

                                -I think it is a good thing to eat more carbs a couple times a week. So I would not suggest NOT tightening up things to much on the weekends.

                                -How is your snacking? I find intermittent fasting to be a great way to eliminate snacking, increase the size of my meals, and naturally cut calories.

                                Good luck!!

                                ETA: Oh yeah - please make sure your vitamin D3 levels are good and that you are getting plenty of magnesium
                                Last edited by jammies; 06-05-2012, 07:47 PM.
                                Using low lectin/nightshade free primal to control autoimmune arthritis. (And lost 50 lbs along the way )

                                http://www.krispin.com/lectin.html

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