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Organic Soy Milk vs. Pasteurized Goat Milk

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  • #16
    Originally posted by fuzzylogic View Post
    I drink soy milk, but then again, the plant estrogens are probably helpful at my age. Certainly no worse for me than the wheat and crap everybody cheats with........
    I would rather eat an entire birthday cake made with a pound of wheat flour than have a single glass of soy milk. If ANYTHING is true on this forum, it's that wheat is OVERBLOWN and soy isn't talked about enough. I think soy is far worse than wheat. I'd rather eat a big bowl of vital wheat gluten than have a salad with soybean oil or a cup of soy milk. We've been consuming wheat for hundreds and hundreds of years. Soy is the real X factor. Processed soy is the new thing, and you'll find that the heart disease/cancer epidemics mirror the increase in soy in this country, not wheat. We don't consume much more grain than we did 100 years ago. We consume huge quantities of soy now, while 100 years ago soy was absent from the SAD.

    You can continue to drink that horrible swill if you want, but I'll rub a loaf of bread all over my face before I smell that disgusting soy juice.





    It's true that the wheat we eat today - GMO dwarf wheat - is nothing like the Biblical einkorn wheat, and it is far more harmful than what Americans were eating 100 years ago. However, I still believe soy to be exponentially worse.
    Last edited by ChocoTaco369; 06-02-2012, 12:09 PM.
    Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

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    • #17
      Oh wow, I had no idea soy is THAT bad for you. Even though I haven't been totally strict when it comes to eating primal, I've been very diligent with avoiding wheat since I discovered this site. I'm definitely doing the same with soy now. ChocoTaco, thank you for taking the time to explain...this is extremely helpful.

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      • #18
        I -totally- agree that soy is just about the worst thing you can consume that's considered 'food.' Even over modern dwarf wheat.

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        • #19
          Choco and I butt heads sometimes but, on this issue, I am right there with him. I used to consume a lot of soy products, tofu, soy shiritaki noodles, soy milk, edamame, veggie burgers, etc. all in an effort to combat the onset of extra pounds as I hit 40. Then I hit 45 and got breast cancer. Yes, I know correlation=/=causation but if I had it to do over again, I wouldn't go near anything soy. I have done the research on this specifically from the breast cancer angle and there is enough there to convince me. Soy is not food.

          Goat milk on the other hand is amazingly yummy.

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          • #20
            If I had the option, I would have had my sister order pork belly, with the soy sauce on the side. I mentioned fermented soy to her; and why that, over regular soy.. yet, we go to starbucks, and asks for soy in her frap.. I know she's lactose intolerant, but it doesn't mean she should have to settle for less...
            If you have a problem with what you read: 1. Get a dictionary 2. Don't read it 3. Grow up 4. After 3, go back to 1/ or 2. -- Dennis Blue. | "I don't care about your opinion, only your analysis"- Professor Calabrese. | "Life is more important than _______" - Drew | I eat animals that eat vegetables -- Matt Millen, former NFL Linebacker. | "This country is built on sugar & shit that comes in a box marinated in gluten - abc123

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            • #21
              Originally posted by lssanjose View Post
              If I had the option, I would have had my sister order pork belly, with the soy sauce on the side. I mentioned fermented soy to her; and why that, over regular soy.. yet, we go to starbucks, and asks for soy in her frap.. I know she's lactose intolerant, but it doesn't mean she should have to settle for less...
              Many people who think they are lactose intolerant find out they are magically not anymore when they start using raw dairy products. The lactaze enzyme needed to digest the lactose in milk is already in the milk but it is killed off in the pasteurization process.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
                Many people who think they are lactose intolerant find out they are magically not anymore when they start using raw dairy products. The lactaze enzyme needed to digest the lactose in milk is already in the milk but it is killed off in the pasteurization process.
                oooh...good to know! like my not needing antihistamines after letting go of gluten, my sister can start buying raw milk; and stop needing that lactaid she keeps buying.
                If you have a problem with what you read: 1. Get a dictionary 2. Don't read it 3. Grow up 4. After 3, go back to 1/ or 2. -- Dennis Blue. | "I don't care about your opinion, only your analysis"- Professor Calabrese. | "Life is more important than _______" - Drew | I eat animals that eat vegetables -- Matt Millen, former NFL Linebacker. | "This country is built on sugar & shit that comes in a box marinated in gluten - abc123

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by lssanjose View Post
                  oooh...good to know! like my not needing antihistamines after letting go of gluten, my sister can start buying raw milk; and stop needing that lactaid she keeps buying.
                  Caution. It doesn't work for everybody but still worth a shot. It depends on if your sensitivity is to the lactose or to the casein in milk. If it's the casein or both that are the problem, raw won't fix it but for most people the problem is the lactose.

                  Besides, once you have tasted raw cream, anything else just tastes meh.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
                    Caution. It doesn't work for everybody but still worth a shot. It depends on if your sensitivity is to the lactose or to the casein in milk. If it's the casein or both that are the problem, raw won't fix it but for most people the problem is the lactose.

                    Besides, once you have tasted raw cream, anything else just tastes meh.
                    duly noted, thanks.
                    If you have a problem with what you read: 1. Get a dictionary 2. Don't read it 3. Grow up 4. After 3, go back to 1/ or 2. -- Dennis Blue. | "I don't care about your opinion, only your analysis"- Professor Calabrese. | "Life is more important than _______" - Drew | I eat animals that eat vegetables -- Matt Millen, former NFL Linebacker. | "This country is built on sugar & shit that comes in a box marinated in gluten - abc123

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
                      Caution. It doesn't work for everybody but still worth a shot. It depends on if your sensitivity is to the lactose or to the casein in milk. If it's the casein or both that are the problem, raw won't fix it but for most people the problem is the lactose.

                      Besides, once you have tasted raw cream, anything else just tastes meh.
                      There's a difference between lactose intolerant and being allergic to dairy. The former has been said to be cured by eating raw dairy and yogurt products.

                      I, unfortunately, have the latter (I believe )

                      Edit: From wiki:

                      Difference between milk allergy and lactose intolerance

                      Milk allergy is a food allergy, an adverse immune reaction to a food protein that is normally harmless to the non-allergic individual. Lactose intolerance is a non-allergic food sensitivity, and comes from a lack of production of the enzyme lactase, required to digest the predominant sugar in milk. Adverse effects of lactose intolerance generally occur after much higher levels of milk consumption than do adverse effects of milk allergy.

                      (Lactose intolerance is considered the normal state for most adults on a worldwide scale and is not typically considered to be a disease condition.[3])
                      That last line is interesting.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Docter View Post
                        There's a difference between lactose intolerant and being allergic to dairy. The former has been said to be cured by eating raw dairy and yogurt products.

                        I, unfortunately, have the latter (I believe )

                        Edit: From wiki:



                        That last line is interesting.
                        I urge you to read this:

                        Lactose Intolerance: Milk Isn't The Problem, You're The*Problem - The Danny Roddy Weblog - Nutrition For Sex, Hair & Health

                        I'm not saying this is 100% true, but I rarely believe things are what they seem. Lactose is the primary carbohydrate in human breast milk, so it seems VERY ODD to me that so many people are lactose intolerant. It seems to me that lactase should be fundamental for humans to produce. If so many of us can't produce it and properly digest breast milk, it would mean a lot of dead babies and a huge evolution fail, wouldn't it?

                        Basically, the above article postulates that "lactose intolerant" people actually don't have an issue producing lactase, but their liver just sucks at breaking lactose down into glucose/galactose due to hormonal imbalances related to diet, most notably those who are staunchly low carbohydrate. I invite you to look around this forum at people that adhere to strict low-carbohydrate diets and you will find that they are almost always the most sensitive to food. VLC diets and food sensitivities go together like bacon and eggs.

                        Anyway, what the post recommends is that you add large quantities of sugar to milk to truly test your lactose intolerance. The theory is that the huge boost from all the simple carbohydrate will get your liver firing on all cylinders, aiding in the digestion of the lactose. He recommends adding anywhere from several tablespoons to an entire cup of a simple syrup (like honey, white sugar or maple syrup) to a glass of milk to see if you can digest the milk. It would be an interesting experiment to perform on those who are lactose intolerant, and he postulates that while at first it may take a lot of sugar being added to the milk to fix your digestive issues, but over time you can ween yourself off the sugar and get down to only drinking the milk itself.

                        Personally, I rarely drink milk as it is so this means nothing to me, but if you think you're lactose intolerant, you may want to do this because it could diagnose underlying metabolic issues.
                        Last edited by ChocoTaco369; 06-03-2012, 05:30 PM.
                        Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

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                        • #27
                          When you drink raw whole dairy, the way nature intended, your liver doesn't need to produce lactase. The lactose and the lactase come neatly packaged in one product, real milk.
                          Pasteurization kills the lactase, hence problems with the lactose. There is nothing wrong with your liver.

                          And as to the assertion that eating low carb causes food sensitivities, Choco, there you are just talking out of some orifice not intended for speech. Back it up or gtfo. People who have food sensitivities tend to be very careful about what they eat. Nowhere near causation.

                          That is back it up with something other than a reference to a blog where the blogger's main point seems to be about hair loss in men and who recommends LARGE quantities of both sugar and salt as if that was really going to help.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
                            When you drink raw whole dairy, the way nature intended, your liver doesn't need to produce lactase. The lactose and the lactase come neatly packaged in one product, real milk.
                            Pasteurization kills the lactase, hence problems with the lactose. There is nothing wrong with your liver.

                            And as to the assertion that eating low carb causes food sensitivities, Choco, there you are just talking out of some orifice not intended for speech. Back it up or gtfo. People who have food sensitivities tend to be very careful about what they eat. Nowhere near causation.

                            That is back it up with something other than a reference to a blog where the blogger's main point seems to be about hair loss in men and who recommends LARGE quantities of both sugar and salt as if that was really going to help.
                            This... I was 'lactose intolerant' for a good 10+ years as a NON-low carb, basically CW person (who focused on lean protein, veg, fruit and whole grains... not junk foods). So I used almond milk.
                            Every 'lactose intolerant' reaction I've ever had has been from pasteurized/homogenized milk products.

                            A little after switching to primal, which I do at low/lower carb because my metabolism is broke as f* and carby meals cause hypo blood sugar crashes and the shakes, I also switched to raw milk products.
                            I was genuinely afraid if the results of that first glass... and guess what NO reaction.
                            I have happily been drinking whole raw milk since then wit no issues.

                            This makes sense... it has nothing to do with "low carb" eating as I had never even heard of low carb when I began the lactose reactions.
                            I grew up drinking raw goat and cow milk and dairy products.
                            When I moved off the farm and to the city I started getting sick from the pasteurized milk products.
                            Now... back to raw, and my body accepts and digests them just fine.

                            Also... perhaps people end up low carb because of food sensitivities, not with food sensitivities because of low carb.
                            You may be getting the cart before the horse.
                            I'm low carb... I HAD one food sensitivity (milk) that existed pre-low carb. It was fixed by consuming a LESS processed version of the same food.
                            Low carb =/= food sensitivities.
                            Last edited by cori93437; 06-03-2012, 08:29 PM.
                            “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.”
                            ~Friedrich Nietzsche
                            And that's why I'm here eating HFLC Primal/Paleo.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
                              When you drink raw whole dairy, the way nature intended, your liver doesn't need to produce lactase. The lactose and the lactase come neatly packaged in one product, real milk.
                              Pasteurization kills the lactase, hence problems with the lactose. There is nothing wrong with your liver.

                              And as to the assertion that eating low carb causes food sensitivities, Choco, there you are just talking out of some orifice not intended for speech. Back it up or gtfo. People who have food sensitivities tend to be very careful about what they eat. Nowhere near causation.

                              That is back it up with something other than a reference to a blog where the blogger's main point seems to be about hair loss in men and who recommends LARGE quantities of both sugar and salt as if that was really going to help.
                              Please point out where I said only low carbohydrate dieters have issues with lactose intolerance.

                              What I specifically said is that people that have issues digesting lactose are those that have issues with their metabolism, and if you look around here, you will find the people around here with the most food issues are VLC dieters. While you don't have to be a VLC person to have an issue with lactose intolerance, it clearly doesn't help the problem as a symptom of prolonged VLC dieting is insulin resistance. If you search around these forums, you'll find people that crash after eating a piece of fruit or a potato because their body is so unfamiliar with how to process glucose anymore. It's one side of each extreme. I doubt you find many people eating 500+g of carbohydrate on this forum, but you will find LOTS of people eating <50g, and these people are most likely to have lactose intolerance since their livers are...not efficient.
                              Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
                                Please point out where I said only low carbohydrate dieters have issues with lactose intolerance.

                                What I specifically said is that people that have issues digesting lactose are those that have issues with their metabolism, and if you look around here, you will find the people around here with the most food issues are VLC dieters. While you don't have to be a VLC person to have an issue with lactose intolerance, it clearly doesn't help the problem as a symptom of prolonged VLC dieting is insulin resistance. If you search around these forums, you'll find people that crash after eating a piece of fruit or a potato because their body is so unfamiliar with how to process glucose anymore. It's one side of each extreme. I doubt you find many people eating 500+g of carbohydrate on this forum, but you will find LOTS of people eating <50g, and these people are most likely to have lactose intolerance since their livers are...not efficient.
                                You didn't use the word "only" nor did I say you did but you did say (in bold type) and I quote, "VLC diets and food sensitivities go together like bacon and eggs".

                                Before the "carb wars " start up again, let me just say that I don't think a zero carb diet is healthy. Please don't paint everyone who watches their carb intake as some kind of extremist. There is a broad spectrum of healthy levels of carb intake as long as it it from a primal source. Your's works for you, mine works for me.

                                And my liver is just fine thankyouverymuch.

                                Once again. Lactose intolerance is about the lack of lactase in processed modern milk. This has nothing to do with your liver's ability or not to process anything. That article is utter interwebz hogwash and you, Choco, should pick your source material more carefully.

                                Yes, there are people who have screwed up liver function and food intolerances, both probably caused by decades of SAD eating and CW attempts to lose weight. Correlation=/=causation.

                                Lowering carb intake is a way that works for a lot of people to lose weight and fix a "broken" metabolism. Going low carb did not create the metabolism issue. As cori said, get the horse and the cart in the right order.
                                Last edited by Paleobird; 06-04-2012, 04:40 PM.

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