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  • Dieting advice FAIL

    I would post this in Funny CW Moments except I don't think this even qualifies as conventional wisdom. What's worse is that I found this article in a runner's magazine.

    FWIW, I can say that for me personally, this advice sucks. I've eaten a craved food to the point of being sick of it - and after a few hours I want it again. All this advice would do for me is make me blow up like a balloon.



    Last edited by Jaradel; 05-30-2012, 11:05 PM. Reason: made images clickable for better viewing

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  • #2
    I don't see a great deal wrong with it. I think she's speaking to what's been talked about lately: food reward. Other than the notion of eating that bad food until you can't stand it, I think her normal eating description is fine. Then again, I've been to that point, before: eating gluten free donuts until I couldn't stand them; it worked for the most part.

    In a way, not entirely, it's describing the 80/20 rule.
    If you have a problem with what you read: 1. Get a dictionary 2. Don't read it 3. Grow up 4. After 3, go back to 1/ or 2. -- Dennis Blue. | "I don't care about your opinion, only your analysis"- Professor Calabrese. | "Life is more important than _______" - Drew | I eat animals that eat vegetables -- Matt Millen, former NFL Linebacker. | "This country is built on sugar & shit that comes in a box marinated in gluten - abc123

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Jaradel View Post
      I would post this in Funny CW Moments except I don't think this even qualifies as conventional wisdom. What's worse is that I found this article in a runner's magazine.

      FWIW, I can say that for me personally, this advice sucks. I've eaten a craved food to the point of being sick of it - and after a few hours I want it again. All this advice would do for me is make me blow up like a balloon.
      That being you're experience I can see it would make you angry.

      It looks fairly foolish advice to me. The "mainstream" doesn't seem to understand that food quality, and the types of foods to eat, matter. It's kind of there as an afterthought: "... so you get some nutritious food ..." but with no explanation, and probably no understanding, of what that would actually mean. And even then that is immediately countered with making sure to not "miss out on enjoyable food". Hardly great advice for a diabetic, given what such a person regards as enjoyable food, for example!

      I guess it's not all necessarily counterproductive, but it's at such a low level of understanding and tangential to any real understanding of what would help. Basically, it's extremely crude advice compared to what you'd get in the Primal Blueprint or the Paleo Solution or similar books.

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      • #4
        I really don't understand this constant reference to Paleo as a fad diet. In my opinion, it is exactly the opposite of a fad diet. Its recommendations are not arbitrary and they are not "crazy" if you actually give them some thought. They do not exist merely to force you to eliminate 90% of your daily calories like the cabbage soup diet or grapefruit diet or master cleanse. Basing your diet generally on that of your ancestors is not a fad, it just makes sense in every way possible.

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        • #5
          I hate it when people refer to this as a diet! It's a lifestyle, folks. (This is NOT directed to forum members since I'm pretty sure we're all on the same page... it's to the crazy CW people that like to ask about the "diet") The article is a prime example of misguided but well meaning CW advice. I don't exactly disagree with the idea that "dieting" is not necessarily the healthiest or most sustainable, and the idea of not restricting yourself from having something you crave seems to fit nicely with the 80/20 premise but... cookies? Which will make you crave more cookies. Instead of encouraging people to make healthier choices like dark chocolate or cacao-nut-coconut balls (a la MDA cookbook) they're vague on making "nutritious" choices. Even if they weren't vague, I do have the feeling that words like "whole grains" and "low-fat" would come zooming out, so maybe that vagueness is for the better...?

          I agree with Lewis that it seems like next to nobody in the mainstream media/publication world accounts for food quality and it's a darn shame.
          Last edited by KKDMB; 05-31-2012, 05:51 AM. Reason: I said "chocolate" and not DARK chocolate... how could I?! Mistake corrected.
          Live Clean, Love Hard. Or vice versa.


          Female! Height: 5'10.5" HW: 161 SW: 135 CW: 124 GW: Whatever number my body wants to be when I'm eating and moving well - trying to get that muscle mass up.

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          • #6
            Ergh. Explaining to people with metabolic dysfunction that they should eat until they feel satisfied and then stop eating is like explaining to a blind person what the color blue looks like.

            It is totally futile to try and tell someone what their software should be doing (and making it seem like they're making a willful personal choice to fuck up, or they're not trying hard enough) when their hardware is completely messed up after a lifetime of eating high-grain/low-fat (like pretty much everyone in the western world). I literally did not know what it was like to feel satisfied during a meal and feel like "Oh, I don't want any more" and put the fork down until I started eating Primal. I ate until I was uncomfortable and went away still hungry, because my leptin didn't work. You can tell someone a million times what they SHOULD be experiencing, but they can't force it to happen if it's not happening.

            And yeah, telling someone to give in to cravings because that'll take the wind out of its sails? Great idea. That's how I ended up 300lbs.

            I am just not convinced that a "fake it til you make it" attitude is at all useful for people with longstanding metabolic damage. "Eat like a theoretical normal person who can get away with eating chocolate cake sometimes and feel completely satisfied with a small slice and you'll lose weight! If you want a cookie, eat a cookie! Because a normal person would feel satisfied after 1-2 and so if you eat 1-2 you totally won't want to binge on the entire box!" This isn't a matter of binge foods being psychologically lusted after because they're "forbidden", even though that's what everyone thinks. It's about the body CRAVING FOOD.

            Once again, it's suggesting that people with damaged bodies just aren't trying hard enough if they can't make it work. "Come on, cripple, normal people walk with one foot in front of the other, so if you just walk like normal people you'll be able to walk normally!"

            It's just like Choco and his gang telling the older women on MDA that they should be able to eat 300g of carbs in the form of sweet potatoes every day and they'll still achieve a healthy weight. Yeah right. It might work fine for people who are already in good shape with working metabolisms, but it's going to backfire hard for anyone else because the system is different. Same with this advice.

            _-J o u r n a l_--------- ---- ---- --- --- -- -- -

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            • #7
              I'm doing what I can to keep this fad "in style," for life. The problem with the mainstream notion of dieting is, once the goal is reached, the diet goes out the window.
              If you have a problem with what you read: 1. Get a dictionary 2. Don't read it 3. Grow up 4. After 3, go back to 1/ or 2. -- Dennis Blue. | "I don't care about your opinion, only your analysis"- Professor Calabrese. | "Life is more important than _______" - Drew | I eat animals that eat vegetables -- Matt Millen, former NFL Linebacker. | "This country is built on sugar & shit that comes in a box marinated in gluten - abc123

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              • #8
                Yeah, Gravyboat. I used to wonder what on earth was wrong with me that I couldn't do any of those things on that "Normal Eating" list. I rarely went to the table hungry and left full. I ate whether I was hungry or full. I used to think I knew how to select nutritious foods but I was wrong. I used to think I knew what a treat was but I was wrong about that too. I really know better that it's not good to eat for emotional reasons and telling me it is okay isn't helpful. I never could leave any cookies on the plate. My body never made up for sometimes eating too much and sometimes eating too little.

                Now that I eat according to the primal blueprint, I can do all those things and be normal. But I had to eliminate grains, sugar, excitogenic food ingredients, industrial seed oils and eat a lot more animals.
                Female, 5'3", 50, Max squat: 202.5lbs. Max deadlift: 225 x 3.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by lssanjose View Post
                  I'm doing what I can to keep this fad "in style," for life. The problem with the mainstream notion of dieting is, once the goal is reached, the diet goes out the window.
                  I think this is true for many people. For me, though, this WOE is essential to maintaining a good quality of life. People who are allergic (sometimes deathly so) to certain foods eliminate them wholesale from their eating plan, and are vigilant about making sure that they don't eat something that has the verboten food item hidden in it, because it could be the difference between life and death for them. I look at grains the same way now - it may not kill me instantly if I eat grains, but I know that it WILL kill me slowly. So for me, Primal is not something I can quit doing once I get to goal.

                  I think the only thing the article gets right is that "dieting" - changing your eating habits for a limited amount of time in order to achieve a desired goal, then returning to your former habits once that goal is reached - is not helpful, and in fact is detrimental. But that's where my agreement with the author ends rather abruptly. She seems to go in the direction of not changing your habits, but instead indulging cravings - and that's how I got where I am in the first place! Had she stressed the importance of making a change that you can live with for the rest of your life, I could have gotten on board with what she said, but the "eat what you want and indulge the craving until you're sick of it" philosophy does not work for me, and I suspect that most people battling their weight would have issues losing weight with that philosophy.

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                  • #10
                    By the way, if labeling certain foods as "forbidden" supposedly increases desire for them, wouldn't all of us here be cravings grains and corn and canola oil?

                    _-J o u r n a l_--------- ---- ---- --- --- -- -- -

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Gravyboat View Post
                      By the way, if labeling certain foods as "forbidden" supposedly increases desire for them, wouldn't all of us here be cravings grains and corn and canola oil?
                      Personally? Nope. They aren't forbidden, go ahead and eat them if you want to. I view them as toxic to my body, and know that the end result will be severe pain. I stay away from these things, my Fibro behaves. I choose to eat them, I know the consequence.
                      Fighting fibromyalgia and chronic myofascial pain since 2002.

                      Big Fat Fiasco

                      Our bodies crave real food. We remain hungry as long as we refuse to eat real food, no matter how much junk we stuff into our stomachs. ~J. Stanton

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Gravyboat View Post
                        Ergh. Explaining to people with metabolic dysfunction that they should eat until they feel satisfied and then stop eating is like explaining to a blind person what the color blue looks like.

                        It is totally futile to try and tell someone what their software should be doing (and making it seem like they're making a willful personal choice to fuck up, or they're not trying hard enough) when their hardware is completely messed up after a lifetime of eating high-grain/low-fat (like pretty much everyone in the western world). I literally did not know what it was like to feel satisfied during a meal and feel like "Oh, I don't want any more" and put the fork down until I started eating Primal. I ate until I was uncomfortable and went away still hungry, because my leptin didn't work. You can tell someone a million times what they SHOULD be experiencing, but they can't force it to happen if it's not happening.

                        And yeah, telling someone to give in to cravings because that'll take the wind out of its sails? Great idea. That's how I ended up 300lbs.

                        I am just not convinced that a "fake it til you make it" attitude is at all useful for people with longstanding metabolic damage. "Eat like a theoretical normal person who can get away with eating chocolate cake sometimes and feel completely satisfied with a small slice and you'll lose weight! If you want a cookie, eat a cookie! Because a normal person would feel satisfied after 1-2 and so if you eat 1-2 you totally won't want to binge on the entire box!" This isn't a matter of binge foods being psychologically lusted after because they're "forbidden", even though that's what everyone thinks. It's about the body CRAVING FOOD.

                        Once again, it's suggesting that people with damaged bodies just aren't trying hard enough if they can't make it work. "Come on, cripple, normal people walk with one foot in front of the other, so if you just walk like normal people you'll be able to walk normally!"

                        It's just like Choco and his gang telling the older women on MDA that they should be able to eat 300g of carbs in the form of sweet potatoes every day and they'll still achieve a healthy weight. Yeah right. It might work fine for people who are already in good shape with working metabolisms, but it's going to backfire hard for anyone else because the system is different. Same with this advice.
                        I love this whole post. Thank you.
                        Primal since March 5, 2012
                        SW: 221 | CW: 204 | LPW: 166 | UGW: 140 (80 lbs loss)



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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by jenn26point2 View Post
                          I love this whole post. Thank you.
                          Agreed.
                          Steph
                          My Primal Meanderings

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                          • #14
                            Just reading the second page (the one on 'normal eating'), I think it's pretty good except for the part about eating the whole plate of cookies if you want to.
                            Disclaimer: I eat 'meat and vegetables' ala Primal, although I don't agree with the carb curve. I like Perfect Health Diet and WAPF Lactofermentation a lot.

                            Griff's cholesterol primer
                            5,000 Cal Fat <> 5,000 Cal Carbs
                            Winterbike: What I eat every day is what other people eat to treat themselves.
                            TQP: I find for me that nutrition is much more important than what I do in the gym.
                            bloodorchid is always right

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                            • #15
                              The chances are that after three days of chocolate cake, you will want shredded wheat again.
                              LOL! Yeah right. Pre-primal I could have eaten a chocolate cake for breakfast every day for years with no problem.

                              And yeah, telling someone to give in to cravings because that'll take the wind out of its sails? Great idea. That's how I ended up 300lbs.
                              Exactly. I was always amazed at people around me who could just eat one or two cookies or whatever and be satisfied. I never had that. I could eat a couple, and then tell myself not to eat anymore, but I would still want more and before i knew it i would have eaten them all. Give in to your cravings is stupid advice, especially for people whose bodies are always craving something junky.

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