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  • #61
    Originally posted by Ribbons View Post
    This is kinda irrelevant but I think I'm getting better at restricting without counting calories because I had breakfast this morning which I felt really bad about so I didn't eat for the rest of the day and now it's nearly 8pm and I didn't want to eat dinner and my parents are out so I put dishes in the sink so I can say I've eaten. I know this goes against what everyone's been telling me but I've been really depressed today and it's either because I had breakfast or because I'm fat. Or both. So if I eat I'll just get more depressed.
    PLEASE go get help! What you are experiencing is not mormal teen behavior and is damaging your body. A good counselor will be able to help you.

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    • #62
      Originally posted by teach2183 View Post
      PLEASE go get help! What you are experiencing is not mormal teen behavior and is damaging your body. A good counselor will be able to help you.
      I don't know... I'd feel weird about getting help because I'm still fat and also I'm not very good at talking to people about myself in real life. Even if I'm being totally serious I start laughing so people don't take me seriously.

      And I don't want to feel pressured to eat if I don't want to.

      Comment


      • #63
        Originally posted by Ribbons View Post
        I don't want to ask my parents for anything because they'll get worried and ask me lots of questions and they don't really respect my privacy so if I was going to see a counsellor it would have to be without them knowing but I think counsellors would still be able to talk to my parents because I'm under 18. So there's no chance of that happening.

        I'm not worried about fertility because I don't plan on having children but I do understand the importance of general health which is why I'm still on this site.

        This is kinda irrelevant but I think I'm getting better at restricting without counting calories because I had breakfast this morning which I felt really bad about so I didn't eat for the rest of the day and now it's nearly 8pm and I didn't want to eat dinner and my parents are out so I put dishes in the sink so I can say I've eaten. I know this goes against what everyone's been telling me but I've been really depressed today and it's either because I had breakfast or because I'm fat. Or both. So if I eat I'll just get more depressed.
        Just eat though. I can't tell you how much unfortunately but only breakfast is too little. I had a 1500 calories breakfast and I'll eat lunch and dinner. Maybe it's too much, I don't know. But you should just eat normal and see what the results are before you start eating less. I'm not good for giving advice but I'd say you should do things that are sustainable in the long run. Is acting like you ate dinner and lying about it sustainable? No
        well then

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        • #64
          Ribbons, what are your favorite TV shows and women's magazines? Are there any particular actresses that you admire?
          5'0" female, 45 years old. Started Primal October 31, 2011, at a skinny fat 111.5 lbs. Low weight: 99.5 lb on a fast. Gained back to 115(!) on SAD chocolate, potato chips, and stress. Currently 111.

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          • #65
            Originally posted by Gadsie View Post
            Just eat though. I can't tell you how much unfortunately but only breakfast is too little. I had a 1500 calories breakfast and I'll eat lunch and dinner. Maybe it's too much, I don't know. But you should just eat normal and see what the results are before you start eating less. I'm not good for giving advice but I'd say you should do things that are sustainable in the long run. Is acting like you ate dinner and lying about it sustainable? No
            I know it's not sustainable but I felt guilty all day about eating breakfast and I didn't want to make it worse. But tomorrow I might be happy to eat 3 meals, who knows? Logically I know that I wouldn't have put on weight from one meal but it sort of feels like I should have skipped it just because I could have.

            Oxide, I haven't watched much TV recently because my parents get annoyed when they see me doing anything other than studying. And I don't like magazines or care about any particular actresses. Why?

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            • #66
              Originally posted by Ribbons View Post
              I checked my BMR and it's like 1421 calories so healthy weight loss would be that minus 500 calories with equals to just over 900 cals a day. I don't eat bacon because my family's Jewish but do you think I should add more coconut oil to my meal? I don't want to buy almond butter or nuts at this stage because I don't find them that filling and I always end up bingeing on them. Is it really necessary to add carbs like fruit? Wouldn't that just slow down my weight loss?
              Can I recommend beef tallow? It is made from beef suet, which is the highest quality fat from the inside of a cow. I find it much nicer than coconut fat, and I think it is more nutritious. You just cut it up and cook it in a big pan, and it naturally renders to tallow, which you can use to cook anything.

              Unless you are very short indeed 59KG is not fat by anyone's standards. If you ate a lot more beef (good quality with bone, not lean cuts) you would probably find a lot of your fat turned to muscle and you ended up with a perfect feminine figure, as muscle is much denser than fat. At 17 you are still developing and need a lot of high quality fat for your brain. I really don't think you should restrict your calorific intake, that will damage your metabolism and cost you muscle instead while your body conserves fat. Then sugar cravings will kick in and you will gain weight. It is much better to eat unlimited meat and fat and only restrict the amount of carbohydrate you eat - e.g. sugars and starches - and if you are working out as much as you say you are, you probably shouldn't be restricting that either. Merely avoiding wheat and veg oil is probably enough for you.

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              • #67
                Originally posted by Ribbons View Post
                I know it's not sustainable but I felt guilty all day about eating breakfast and I didn't want to make it worse. But tomorrow I might be happy to eat 3 meals, who knows? Logically I know that I wouldn't have put on weight from one meal but it sort of feels like I should have skipped it just because I could have.
                At 17 you don't want to be fasting, at least not deliberately. That is something that overweight people in their 30s and older do to control their weight, often because their metabolisms have been damaged by years of abuse.

                If you have been restricting what you eat for a while you are probably short of any amount of essential nutrients which will make you lethargic and depressed (and you do sound a bit depressed). Spend some time eating meat and fat that you like (beef! - At least for me.) to get back on an even keel, then after a week or so you will start to find your happiness increasing and that you have lots more energy. Depression is directly associated with low fat diets, basically because you need good animal fats and being depressed is one of the sticks the body can use to make you change whatever it is you are doing which is wrong. Lots of people find that depression disappears once they have enough animal fat in their diet, and they start spontaneously burning off excess fat.

                If you don't mind me asking what do you eat? Presumably you are eating with your family normally? Please don't feel guilty about eating, even wheat and veg oil. Once you have have filled yourself with good food for a while one stops craving junk food and sugar. You end up with a totally different mindset, where you don't want to eat until you have pleasant hunger sensations - a very different sensation to the overwhelming hunger I used to feel.
                Oxide, I haven't watched much TV recently because my parents get annoyed when they see me doing anything other than studying. And I don't like magazines or care about any particular actresses. Why?
                It is to try to get into your frame of reference. Most of us are a lot older, so to understand you it is useful to get a feel for your likes and dislikes. A lot of teenage girls are interested in magazine and actresses. You, not; but presumably something else, some ruling passion. Horse riding? Classical music? What would you like to do if you didn't have to study? That is important for getting enough time for fun. You will study better when life is fun. Fun is important.

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                • #68
                  Ribbons, there's so much to think about, so many choices out there, and above all you want to lose that weight tomorrow, I know. You've gotten good advice here, so zero in on some of it, pick a few things, and every time you feel overwhelmed in your head, zero in on those few most important things. Almost use them as a meditation to keep away the intense feelings and worries. You and Gadsie are experiencing a lot of changes hormonally which is a roller coaster ride for anyone... But for you two, burdened with eating disorders, it's a nightmare. So, it might not be fair that you're burdened even more than most of the other teens, but that's why you have to be clever and figure out how you can get that help and be comfortable doing it. You're in Australia, so Zoebird might get Australian #s for you, or you need to start digging on the Internet. Maybe you can channel that nervous, obsessive energy/thinking on working towards your goals.

                  First, figure out your goals. Sounds like they're to lose weight and control your obsessive thoughts on food and calories. Well think about what others have said here. You can be skinny and still be unhealthy/look fat. I always thought I was fat. I hated my body. I always seemed fat compared to other girls even when I weight less than them. Now, when I look back, I realize it wasn't that I was fat (though sometimes I was) it was that I was unhealthy and out of shape...soft with NO muscle.. Do you think you can change your goal to being HEALTHY instead of just thin? From all the reading I'm doing, it seems that a healthy and toned body that has enough sleep, meditates a little, excercises properly (they've told you how in this thread), gets out in the sunshine, has fun with friends, and eats real food not processed (no more toast, that's like eating sugar), WILL regulate itself and you will be able to lose. You see, you will get to know your body and hear the signals. If you can get healthy you'll find you'll feel it if you start to over eat or eat the wrong things. Your body will think 'hmm, that was too much food last night, I'm not hungry yet so I'll just wait 'till I'm hungry again to eat' or 'Hmm, that sweet potato didn't make me all bloaty like the toast did, my body wants more'. But you won't hear your body if you starve it. It will never start healing. Imagine trying to grow a tree without enough sun, water, and nutrients in the soil. If the soil is barren then the tree will be weak and twisted, and sick.

                  What we're all looking for here, and many have obtained, is to be so completely in touch with our bodies that we know what makes us feel good, better, bad, worse, or best. It's a lifelong journey that we aim to enjoy every step of the way. Perhaps your goal instead could be glowing health? You can always add the goal to slim down more later if you wish once you're truly healthy. Believe me, a fit and glowing girl enjoying life standing next to a skinny girl who knows nothing really about true health, fitness or her inner self, will stand out. To get that glowing health you can't starve yourself. You need to feed it with lots of real food; lots of veggies, raw and cooked, lots of grassfed butter, coconut oil and olive oil, proteins like eggs, meats, chicken, even whey protein smoothies, fruit and nuts if you choose. Feed it with nourishing foods so it can start healing. And go out and walk. Get a friend to ramble out with you. Clean your room as hard as you can while dancing. Go to a playground when the little kids are gone and swing swing sing on a swing and climb on the monkey bars, pull yourself up to the top. Master your body and mind. It's your challenge to yourself. Bring a friend or do it alone but go out and do. Once you start getting healthier, your body will stop storing fat and start burning it away, but it can't do that 'til it's started getting healthy.

                  Try this. Star with a 3 week goal. That's not too bad, right? Just 3 weeks. For 3 weeks you will eat 2-3 full meals full of the stuff we recommend (go shopping with your mom). For 3 weeks you won't count calories. Just 3 weeks, honey. You can do it! Just 3 weeks. So, eat real food nothing pre-made. Carry nuts and boiled eggs, and carrot sticks and green beans and apples around with you for emergencies. You know the foods. No sugar, no juice, no grains. Eat lots of protein and fats and veggies. Get plenty of sleep. Keep a casual list of what you eat but can you try not to plug them into fit day? Move around a lot. And read the intro 'start here' links on this site written by Mark. Every time you're home and you feel that obsessive worrying take over, look up his info. Read his freebies. And tell yourself your goals -To be a glowing healthy girl - To find someone to help you take control of your obsession - To walk and dance and laugh with your friends.

                  Start a journal. Either here or in the privacy of your room on paper. And write down how you're doing, how you're feeling.

                  Lots to do. Can you give yourself a 3 week challenge and start doing these things? then see how you're feeling. When it's over you can then give yourself a new 3 or 4 week challenge. And so on.

                  So when you want to skip that dinner, remember that if you do, you're depriving your body of minerals, amino acids, vitamins, fibre and protein that it needs to turn you into that vibrant, glowing girl who is so desperate to get out its driving you to obsess and starve yourself. She's in there, Ribbons, she IS you. You just can't see her yet though.
                  Last edited by KerryK; 05-30-2012, 06:45 AM.
                  SW: 243
                  CW: 177
                  Goal: Health

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                  • #69
                    billp, thanks, I'll try to eat more animal fat. Haha it sounds strange because we're always being told to avoid it (but I've read enough here and on other sites to know why it's not the cause of heart disease etc.)
                    I usually eat stuff like eggs, fresh/frozen vegetables, fish, rice (only if I know I'm going to eat pasta/bread otherwise), butter/coconut oil, and tea/coffee with a tiny bit of 0% fat milk. And I have meat once or twice a week. I also eat nuts and stuff made out of almond flour but I'm trying to limit that to once a week or less.
                    And I'm 158cm (5'2 I think) so I am quite heavy for my height.
                    As for hobbies... I don't know, I can't think of anything. When I'm not trying to study I spend the rest of my time researching nutrition (sometimes the same stuff over and over again) or making weight loss plans in my head (because as I said earlier I keep changing my mind) and I go on tumblr to waste time if I'm bored. Sometimes I watch movies or TV if I have nothing else to do. If I didn't have to study I'd also go out more with my friends. I think I'm kind of worried that if I get interested in something else it'll distract me from losing weight and I'll stop caring about what I eat.

                    KerryK, thanks for the advice. I understand why you'd say to focus on health and then weight loss but I'm finding it really hard because I'd feel like I'd given up on weight loss and then I'd end up starving myself again (which I know is stupid and not helpful).

                    And now I'm getting confused and anxious because I feel like I shouldn't eat until I absolutely have to and I don't know when that is. And if I eat before that imaginary time then I've failed. I was going to eat breakfast this morning because yesterday I was dizzy at school (after eating breakfast) and I didn't eat for the rest of the day so I thought it might be worse today, but I felt like I didn't 'need' to have breakfast so I skipped it. And I always skip lunch on weekdays. And I don't know whether to eat dinner tonight or not and I know that maybe I should for the nutrients and stuff but I could just skip it and eat breakfast tomorrow instead. I sort of want to eat but then I get angry at myself and tell myself I'm not hungry. I'm so confused.

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by Ribbons View Post
                      billp, thanks, I'll try to eat more animal fat. Haha it sounds strange because we're always being told to avoid it (but I've read enough here and on other sites to know why it's not the cause of heart disease etc.)
                      I usually eat stuff like eggs, fresh/frozen vegetables, fish, rice (only if I know I'm going to eat pasta/bread otherwise), butter/coconut oil, and tea/coffee with a tiny bit of 0% fat milk. And I have meat once or twice a week. I also eat nuts and stuff made out of almond flour but I'm trying to limit that to once a week or less.
                      And I'm 158cm (5'2 I think) so I am quite heavy for my height.
                      As for hobbies... I don't know, I can't think of anything. When I'm not trying to study I spend the rest of my time researching nutrition (sometimes the same stuff over and over again) or making weight loss plans in my head (because as I said earlier I keep changing my mind) and I go on tumblr to waste time if I'm bored. Sometimes I watch movies or TV if I have nothing else to do. If I didn't have to study I'd also go out more with my friends. I think I'm kind of worried that if I get interested in something else it'll distract me from losing weight and I'll stop caring about what I eat.

                      KerryK, thanks for the advice. I understand why you'd say to focus on health and then weight loss but I'm finding it really hard because I'd feel like I'd given up on weight loss and then I'd end up starving myself again (which I know is stupid and not helpful).

                      And now I'm getting confused and anxious because I feel like I shouldn't eat until I absolutely have to and I don't know when that is. And if I eat before that imaginary time then I've failed. I was going to eat breakfast this morning because yesterday I was dizzy at school (after eating breakfast) and I didn't eat for the rest of the day so I thought it might be worse today, but I felt like I didn't 'need' to have breakfast so I skipped it. And I always skip lunch on weekdays. And I don't know whether to eat dinner tonight or not and I know that maybe I should for the nutrients and stuff but I could just skip it and eat breakfast tomorrow instead. I sort of want to eat but then I get angry at myself and tell myself I'm not hungry. I'm so confused.
                      I feel you. I think the entire problem would be solved (at least for me) if there would just be some light bulp on my body which would light when it needed food
                      Last edited by Gadsie; 05-31-2012, 01:13 AM.
                      well then

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                      • #71
                        Personally, this is a red flag to me:

                        "I'm getting confused and anxious. . . ."

                        You seem to be headed into eating disorder territory, if not already there. If you're at school where there's a counseling center, I'd advise you to take advantage of professional help to sort out your feelings about weight and eating.

                        Please.

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by emmie View Post
                          Personally, this is a red flag to me:

                          "I'm getting confused and anxious. . . ."

                          You seem to be headed into eating disorder territory, if not already there. If you're at school where there's a counseling center, I'd advise you to take advantage of professional help to sort out your feelings about weight and eating.

                          Please.
                          I emailed an online counselling thingy earlier and they said they can talk to me on Saturday but I don't know how they'd be able to help me anyway.

                          I ate eggs and some nuts and rice for dinner. Ugh why do I keep eating rice everyday? It's just empty calories

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                          • #73
                            Originally posted by Gadsie View Post
                            And now I'm getting confused and anxious because I feel like I shouldn't eat until I absolutely have to and I don't know when that is. And if I eat before that imaginary time then I've failed. I was going to eat breakfast this morning because yesterday I was dizzy at school (after eating breakfast) and I didn't eat for the rest of the day so I thought it might be worse today, but I felt like I didn't 'need' to have breakfast so I skipped it. And I always skip lunch on weekdays. And I don't know whether to eat dinner tonight or not and I know that maybe I should for the nutrients and stuff but I could just skip it and eat breakfast tomorrow instead. I sort of want to eat but then I get angry at myself and tell myself I'm not hungry. I'm so confused.
                            I feel you. I think the entire problem would be solved (at least for me) if there would just be some light bulp on my body which would light when it needed food
                            You do realise that no one has that, don't you? There are the undernourished sugar grazers who feel hungry very frequently, and better nourished fat eaters who can go a long time without food. But in all cases there is no light bulb of need. People are just getting hungry and having something to eat. No one is thinking about it, or even paying any real attention.

                            Paying attention, trying to plan for your needs, ignoring hunger pangs because you don't think you need food now, and making an intellectual understanding of food needs, are all primary symptoms of Anorexia Nervosa, even if you are not yet very thin.

                            Now I have written that I am feeling really hungry and will go and get a kebab, with real wheat pita and probably veg oil, so into cheat territory even though it has a lot of meat. Yep, cheating. But that's fine, because I can eat whatever I like and am not allergic to anything. Do you see me getting screwed up about it? Nope.

                            Both of you should be talking to your parents about these issues, not least because you are both under 18. It is what parents are for. Fortunately you have ended up on forum where you will be encouraged to eat, but still, this is something you need to be talking openly about with our parents or at the very least some sort of family member or responsible adult who can act as an intermediary for discussing things with your parents.
                            Last edited by billp; 05-31-2012, 05:48 AM. Reason: typo

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                            • #74
                              Originally posted by Ribbons View Post
                              I emailed an online counselling thingy earlier and they said they can talk to me on Saturday but I don't know how they'd be able to help me anyway.

                              I ate eggs and some nuts and rice for dinner. Ugh why do I keep eating rice everyday? It's just empty calories
                              Please go and print this thread for them to read. They CAN help you. It likely will be a long journey, but with help you can stop focusing on food and enjoy life again.

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by Ribbons View Post
                                billp, thanks, I'll try to eat more animal fat. Haha it sounds strange because we're always being told to avoid it (but I've read enough here and on other sites to know why it's not the cause of heart disease etc.)
                                I usually eat stuff like eggs, fresh/frozen vegetables, fish, rice (only if I know I'm going to eat pasta/bread otherwise), butter/coconut oil, and tea/coffee with a tiny bit of 0% fat milk. And I have meat once or twice a week. I also eat nuts and stuff made out of almond flour but I'm trying to limit that to once a week or less.
                                Sounds all right. I wouldn't worry about eating rice though. It is harmless enough, The way this type of diet works is that you are trying to nourish yourself as completely as possible, then the body can shed excess fat it no longer needs to store (because it is getting animal fat to eat regularly, so no worries) and build better muscles from all the meat, and nutrients and carbohydrate from the veg and starch. If you don't eat carbs at all or have too little the body makes its own sugar from meat, so there is no real point in totally doing without them except for certain medical circumstances - being very overweight indeed (i.e. not you), or having a disease that can respond well to ketosis, like epilepsy or cancer.

                                As you are healthy and actually not very overweight there is no harm in eating things like rice. I eat potatoes and sweet potatoes, always in chip form and deep fried in tallow.
                                And I'm 158cm (5'2 I think) so I am quite heavy for my height.
                                As for hobbies... I don't know, I can't think of anything. When I'm not trying to study I spend the rest of my time researching nutrition (sometimes the same stuff over and over again) or making weight loss plans in my head (because as I said earlier I keep changing my mind) and I go on tumblr to waste time if I'm bored. Sometimes I watch movies or TV if I have nothing else to do. If I didn't have to study I'd also go out more with my friends. I think I'm kind of worried that if I get interested in something else it'll distract me from losing weight and I'll stop caring about what I eat.
                                That's obsessing. If you eat a diet rich in good quality meat, animal fat, green and coloured veg and some starchy food like rice and root veg you will just slim down naturally. No planning needed. I think you do need some sort of hobby to get you out of the house and add variety. How about something like Parkour? Outdoors, fun, meet new people and run and jump about over stuff.

                                In Melbourne:
                                MELBOURNE | AUSTRALIAN PARKOUR ASSOCIATION - Developing and Teaching Parkour in Melbourne
                                Elsewhere:
                                AUSTRALIAN PARKOUR ASSOCIATION - Developing and Teaching Parkour in Australia

                                And now I'm getting confused and anxious because I feel like I shouldn't eat until I absolutely have to and I don't know when that is. And if I eat before that imaginary time then I've failed. I was going to eat breakfast this morning because yesterday I was dizzy at school (after eating breakfast) and I didn't eat for the rest of the day so I thought it might be worse today, but I felt like I didn't 'need' to have breakfast so I skipped it. And I always skip lunch on weekdays. And I don't know whether to eat dinner tonight or not and I know that maybe I should for the nutrients and stuff but I could just skip it and eat breakfast tomorrow instead. I sort of want to eat but then I get angry at myself and tell myself I'm not hungry. I'm so confused.
                                Pah. There is nothing to be confused about. Just eat real food until you are full, and avoid wheat, soy, HFCS and vegetable oils as they are all bad for you, plus don't eat sugary things unless you have been working out in the last few days. And stay away from anything with artificial sweeteners in, as giving your body a taste of sweetness with no follow up to digest is a very good way to make yourself extremely hungry for sugar.

                                Also, something to bear in mind: Not eating enough as you have been doing has effects on the brain and leads to that type of anxiety and indecisiveness, as well as racing thoughts. That'll most like vanish one you start eating big juicy steaks with the fat on, and liver, heart, kidney and all those good things.
                                Last edited by billp; 05-31-2012, 01:00 PM. Reason: typo

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