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  • Originally posted by billp View Post
    Being a parent is quite a complicated business. You'll see the things your parents want you to see. I ma sure she notices when you skip a meal but is not sure what to do.
    She's used to it though. And she can see that I'm obviously not underweight so she doesn't need to worry.

    Nope, bodyweight is not related to starvation mode. You are either starving or you aren't, at any weight. It takes weeks of very large eating to get out of starvation mode. It doesn't happen with one meal, or even ten.
    I googled starvation mode and lots of sites say it's a myth.

    Yes, it is a property of wheat. It is why most people here don't eat it. Rice and starchy veg are fine. As hungry as you are now, wheat would actually be fine for you too.No one knows why Aneorexics feel like that. The only solutio is to eat more, as that improves the mental processes and gets you out of that state. You can't think your way out because it is a mental condition. You have to eat your way out.
    I ate heaps of food (including plenty of fat) both yesterday and today and it didn't help at all.

    Racing certainty. Your life and health is much more important then delaying some exams, and it should be obvious that anxiety about your exams is a primary cause. Taking your exams later or even dropping back a year doesn't matter in the slightest. Anyone can see you need an immediate long break from school and school related stress. This kind of thing (resits, dropping back a year, etc.) happens all the time and just doesn't matter in the long run - unlike your own health, which is the only real thing of value you have. I resat my own similar exams at 18, and it was much easier the second time round.
    Maybe things are different here because I haven't heard of anyone redoing year 12 unless they're a competitive athlete or something. I'd hate to have to do it again with the year below. I know that it is an option but it would be very embarrassing and there are only a few months left until end-of-year exams so I'll just try to survive until then.
    Originally posted by teach2183 View Post
    Please tell someone around you.

    I taught HS physics for a few years. I had a student tell me he was cutting, I went straight to the social worker and from there nobody else in school found out.

    My DH is a HS social worker. If he heard the things you are posting here from one of his students, he would send them straight to the hospital. You NEED help, like yesterday. Stop worrying about how others will react, you will get through this.

    I coached a HS sophomore last summer. She was bright, athletic, a pleasure to get along with. From the outside it appeared that she had a great life. I spoke with the mom at the beginning of this calendar year and found out shortly after I stopped working with her that she started treatment for an ED. Her parents had high standards and did expect a lot out of her, but dropped everything to help her. They rearranged everything to be sure she was getting exactly what she needed to start feeling better. They even recognized that playing on a lower level sports team was better for her because it meant less pressure. I suspect your parents will have a similar response.
    That's part of the problem; I don't want my parents to have to drop everything for me. I don't want to be a burden.

    Originally posted by teach2183 View Post
    Oh, and wheat has a blood-brain barrier effect where it can get into your brain and increase appetite. It is estimated that it makes you eat 400 calories per day extra. So stay away from wheat and your body will give you the proper cues of how much to eat if you ignore your brain.
    That's interesting. I think fructose does the same thing.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Ribbons View Post
      There's no point in telling anyone. It's my fault I don't study enough and it's my fault that I restrict calories for a while and then binge. No one forced me to eat. I knew what I was doing at the time, I just didn't know it would make me so depressed afterwards.
      Fault is another one of these things that doesn't really matter. Is it really your fault that you pushed yourself to hard while revising? Or you weren't aware of the mental consequences of calorie restricted diets? Not really. You tried something and it didn't work. That is always happening, to everyone. The trick is to give up doing what doesn't work and to try something else.

      You can totally eat your way out of depression. Beef suet. Works very well.
      I need to do well at school so I can get into a good university. Otherwise I have no idea what I'm going to do next year.
      Sure, but you can't do well while you are not eating enough. You will get into a better university once your results are better, which means getting over the whole anorexia thing and having a long period stress-free and restoring your health and fitness - like taking up parkour. There is no law that says you can to go to university when you are 18 and not 19. I went at 19. I think it might have been an advantage overall.

      What are you going to do next year? Well, you are going to need a good month's rest right away, once you are eating properly again. You will need a good long time away from school stuff. You can read some proper novels for fun. You can start a blog about yourself and how you beat anorexia. You can take up an outdoor exercise or a martial art. You'll enjoy that once you are feeling stronger. It is already June, so it is only six months until the school year begins again and you can have another go. You will have the perfect medical excuse. It is a medical problem that you have. You will need time to recover.
      Thanks but no it's ok, I used to cut more and then I stopped for a while and now I only do it when I'm extremely stressed.
      I can promise you I have had more stressful things happen to me in the last year than you have, but you don't see me cutting myself. You don't ever want to do something like that.
      They're not worried about me because they think I'm happy and getting good grades. If I tell them anything I'm sure they won't know what to do and they'll either do something unhelpful or they'll just worry and I don't want to add more stress to their lives.
      If they don't know what to do they will learn what to do very quickly. Your parents already know, anyway. It is just a question of you and them getting on the same page so they can help you better. Once people have a plan to work on then it isn't stressful any more, it is a great relief.

      Go eat something, anyway. You need to to start feeling better.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Ribbons View Post

        That's part of the problem; I don't want my parents to have to drop everything for me. I don't want to be a burden.
        They are your parents. They love you. You won't be a burden.

        I raised 4 children - all adults in their 30s now with children of their own. I had issues with my twin daughters when they were teenagers. I jumped through hoops to straighten them out. We went to counseling once a week. They also were on the high school swim team and had a coach who cared. They turned out fine. Sometimes it takes a third party outside of the family to help. If you are having a problem you can't talk to your parents about, then seek out a teacher, coach, counselor, priest, minister, aunt, uncle, neighbor. It really helps to air your problems rather than internalizing them.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by billp View Post
          Fault is another one of these things that doesn't really matter. Is it really your fault that you pushed yourself to hard while revising? Or you weren't aware of the mental consequences of calorie restricted diets? Not really. You tried something and it didn't work. That is always happening, to everyone. The trick is to give up doing what doesn't work and to try something else.

          You can totally eat your way out of depression. Beef suet. Works very well.

          Sure, but you can't do well while you are not eating enough. You will get into a better university once your results are better, which means getting over the whole anorexia thing and having a long period stress-free and restoring your health and fitness - like taking up parkour. There is no law that says you can to go to university when you are 18 and not 19. I went at 19. I think it might have been an advantage overall.

          What are you going to do next year? Well, you are going to need a good month's rest right away, once you are eating properly again. You will need a good long time away from school stuff. You can read some proper novels for fun. You can start a blog about yourself and how you beat anorexia. You can take up an outdoor exercise or a martial art. You'll enjoy that once you are feeling stronger. It is already June, so it is only six months until the school year begins again and you can have another go. You will have the perfect medical excuse. It is a medical problem that you have. You will need time to recover.
          I can't just drop out of school. I'd have to tell everyone why and it's not too late for me to do well in the exams at the end of the year anyway because the work isn't that hard to understand, I just haven't had any motivation to study. But I know that I can do ok if I really push myself.

          I can promise you I have had more stressful things happen to me in the last year than you have, but you don't see me cutting myself. You don't ever want to do something like that.
          It's an impulsive thing. Usually I can stop myself but sometimes I just need to cut. I'm trying to stop though because the scars don't always heal well.

          If they don't know what to do they will learn what to do very quickly. Your parents already know, anyway. It is just a question of you and them getting on the same page so they can help you better. Once people have a plan to work on then it isn't stressful any more, it is a great relief.
          My parents don't know anything. But maybe I'll tell them about my eating issues if I want help one day.

          Go eat something, anyway. You need to to start feeling better.
          Haha wtf, I had a panic attack in the shower earlier and cried for 3 hours because I couldn't make myself throw up. Obviously eating more isn't going to help.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Lynna View Post
            They are your parents. They love you. You won't be a burden.

            I raised 4 children - all adults in their 30s now with children of their own. I had issues with my twin daughters when they were teenagers. I jumped through hoops to straighten them out. We went to counseling once a week. They also were on the high school swim team and had a coach who cared. They turned out fine. Sometimes it takes a third party outside of the family to help. If you are having a problem you can't talk to your parents about, then seek out a teacher, coach, counselor, priest, minister, aunt, uncle, neighbor. It really helps to air your problems rather than internalizing them.
            I can't think of anyone I'd want to tell though. I'm really bad at telling people about my problems.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Ribbons View Post
              I can't think of anyone I'd want to tell though. I'm really bad at telling people about my problems.
              you just told an entire board of real people you want to die.

              you have people giving you the attention you are seeking and you disregard their advice. get help. not from here, in real life.

              I think what perplexes me is that you want to convey the message of despair yet you put the effort and energy into refuting the arguments of everyone who offers advice. It doesnt fit, sorry.
              Last edited by amberlee; 06-05-2012, 07:01 AM.

              Comment


              • or, at least, it is nearly midnight, get some sleep instead of waiting to see who responds on this forum.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Ribbons View Post
                  I can't just drop out of school. I'd have to tell everyone why and it's not too late for me to do well in the exams at the end of the year anyway because the work isn't that hard to understand, I just haven't had any motivation to study. But I know that I can do ok if I really push myself.
                  Nothing says it even has to be the same school. Maybe you will be fine once you start eating normally again. What I mean is that if you did have to resit stuff it wouldn't really matter. Your own health is more important that school, and as long as you are in good health (i.e. eating properly) school and university related stuff is much more fixable. It is not just about motivation or pushing yourself. You can't do either of those things unless you are properly nourished, and that is going to involve eating a lot more for months, panic attacks notwithstanding. They will pass, anyway. I juist think you need a really big break to relax, rebuild your strength and appetite, and get away from studying for a while. It is making you ill. I remember being at school and things like being ashamed about dropping behind or resitting. But as an adult I realise it just doesn't matter, it is all about doing things in a way that suits you. It is one of the reasons school is such a poor preparation for life, as real life is all about rejigging things.
                  Last edited by billp; 06-05-2012, 08:04 AM.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Ribbons View Post
                    I used to cut more and then I stopped for a while and now I only do it when I'm extremely stressed.
                    I think this is awesome!!! This is a real improvement over how you used to be. And your posting here is helping you, even if you don't think so. Please keep reading, keep talking, keep answering questions.

                    Today's question: How do you feel about, say 900 calories a day? I know 2000 calories freaks you out, but can you handle 900 approximately? It's less food than you need, but if you make those calories chock full of nutrition, it's workable.
                    5'0" female, 45 years old. Started Primal October 31, 2011, at a skinny fat 111.5 lbs. Low weight: 99.5 lb on a fast. Gained back to 115(!) on SAD chocolate, potato chips, and stress. Currently 111.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Ribbons View Post
                      It's an impulsive thing. Usually I can stop myself but sometimes I just need to cut. I'm trying to stop though because the scars don't always heal well.
                      Don't ever cut yourself. No one needs to cut themselves, ever. There are lots of sports where you can hit people as hard as you like and will get hit yourself. Boxing, for example, or Krav Maga. Letting your aggression out is liberating! There is a case for saying that depression, anorexia and self-injury are all forms of aggression turned inward, because people become so attuned to not being aggressive. But humans are aggressive animals. Send your aggression outwards!
                      My parents don't know anything. But maybe I'll tell them about my eating issues if I want help one day.
                      They wouldn't be making you eat if they didn't already know. You need their help now, not one day.
                      Haha wtf, I had a panic attack in the shower earlier and cried for 3 hours because I couldn't make myself throw up. Obviously eating more isn't going to help.
                      Every single problem you have at the moment is directly connected to not eating enough. It is the only problem that truly matters, and eating more is the only thing that will really help you.
                      Last edited by billp; 06-05-2012, 12:17 PM.

                      Comment


                      • Your parents would rather see you get help now rather than later when you have done even more damage to your body. You are shaving years off your life. Yes, it will be hard for them to hear you are struggling because they love you. But they will want you to feel better.

                        It is not normal to cut yourself, you need a counselor to help you with other coping mechanisms. I have been through a lot in life and once sat in my college dorm room with a bottle of pills, I thought about using my razor to cut. But I couldn't do it for sake of my niece and nephew at the time. The only way I got better was counseling to get over a traumatic event that clearly affected my whole life (which was hard for my parents to learn about). Because I developed a strong foundation with the counseling, I was able to get through my mom passing away when I was 22 by going to grief counseling and never considering any harmful ideas.

                        Comment


                        • From Mark Sisson: How to Conduct a Personal Experiment: Cold Water Plunges | Mark's Daily Apple

                          "We’re all about the ease of Primal eating, exercising, and listening to one’s body while looking at calorie-counting with suspicion and often barely veiled scorn – “just follow these basic rules and everything will fall into place like so” – but logging data, analyzing data, and drawing conclusions from said data is really about honing your intuition. It’d be nice if we all maintained that Primal connection to our bodies, but most of us have not. Most of us have lived lives divorced from our bodies, eating weird pseudo-foods, strapped several inches of rubber to our feet, sitting in the same place for ten hours a day, staring at one electronic screen or another instead of the wide world around us, sleeping in rooms with bright blue green blinking shards of light filling our dreams, and we’re all a little confused. That’s okay. That’s to be expected. We can come back from this to reclaim our intuition, and data logs, journals, and self-experiments are how we get there.

                          You know how people say you go to college to learn how to learn? This is kinda like that.

                          What’s cool is that we can all learn something from a self-experiment. No matter what you know or think you know, you have a weak spot that can be identified and hammered out by systematically logging, journaling and testing. I know this because I have plenty of them myself. Ever since I wrote that first post on self-experimentation, I’ve been playing around with my own experiments, and I have an effective, simple methodology for testing. Also since that blog post I’ve quietly been putting the finishing touches on a new book, a 90-Day Primal Journal that will contain this methodology and deals with precisely this subject. It drops later this month."

                          ...........and the poster is pulling our leg, me-thinks!
                          Last edited by Chatty; 06-05-2012, 01:06 PM.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by amberlee View Post
                            you just told an entire board of real people you want to die.

                            you have people giving you the attention you are seeking and you disregard their advice. get help. not from here, in real life.

                            I think what perplexes me is that you want to convey the message of despair yet you put the effort and energy into refuting the arguments of everyone who offers advice. It doesnt fit, sorry.
                            Of course it doesn't fit. Anorexia Nervosa is a mental illness. If someone was making rational decisions they would not be in that situation.

                            I don't think people realise just how deep the effects of starvation are on the brain. One of the features of WW2 is that soldiers from both Germany and Russia all experienced starvation in their childhoods. The Germans had suffered famine during the WW1 and after, caused by the Allied sea blockade that carried on until 1921, then no one could afford food because of hyperinflation. It wasn't until the mid-20s that things calmed down. The Communist regime in Russia set off politically motivated famine after famine in the 20s and 30s trying to make an insane system work by fear and force. The resulting Russian and German soldiers had no limits the their brutality and fought like lions and with immense bravery - whereas well fed British and American soldiers were much less brutal, and much less brave.

                            Starvation does that to people. It changes them. Makes them brutal, willing to run risks and endure hardship. You need to in order to survive. J.G. Ballard is an example. You can see that in "Empire of the Sun". He's boyhood in Japanese prisoner of war camps changed him for life. True starvation does drive people mad at the time and leaves them changed.

                            That's all very well, but we all have enough to eat. We aren't fighting our way across the mud of Eastern Europe. We have so much food that we can get too fat (like I did). But when someone goes on a crash-diet they risk getting into the same state. If they are lucky, the starving gets so uncomfortable that they stop. If they are unlucky, especially when young, especially when under stress for other reasons, the effect of starvation knocks the sense out of them and they latch onto not eating enough in the way a starving prisoner latches onto exactly what time the camp guard bring the food bag, and who exactly is too weak to defend their bread. Starvation makes you obsessive, and it makes you brutal. But in the case of the Anorexic they are obsessing about something that stops them from eating, because that was when they were doing when they got into this state. It makes them brutal to themselves. That is why it is the mental illness with the highest death rate - because once the effect of starvation is to make someone chose to eat less and risk their own life, instead of risking their own life to eat more (as for a normal starvation victim), there isn't really anything to stop them starving to death. It is why they end up force feeding them in hospital - because however unwilling they may be to be fed, once they had had enough food for a while the starvation-craziness passes and they start thinking more along the lines of "hey, I'm hungry, lets have something to eat" instead of "hey, I'm hungry, how can I brutalise myself further". Brutality is a great strategy when the cause of you hunger is outside of yourself, but it is terrible if you are your own cause.

                            I don't actually think it has much to do with wanting to lose weight or anything. Until the 19th Century (mostly) girls were getting into this state out of piety - start off with a religious fast, then they just carried on, getting more and more holy but thinner and thinner. Excessive poring over books seems to be involved too - that is common between Mirabilis and Nervosa. If you look at the case of Timothy Dwight in the 1770s, he wasn't trying to lose weight but he was studying 14 hours a day. Counting things is connected too - Timothy Dwight counted mouthfuls, because calories hadn't been invented in 1774.

                            Anyway, got a bit side tracked. Anorexics do despair, because however hard them are on themselves, they are still starving. The human hungry-instinct is to be more brutal, not less, but their being brutal to themselves only makes things worse. Of course the only thing they can do is eat and avoid sources of stress, then they can get over it, as a kind of leap of faith. At the end of the day being slightly fatter than you would like to be never did anyone any harm. Being hugely overweight takes years to even do you some harm, and decades to kill you. Being too thin will kill you in two months flat.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by amberlee View Post
                              you just told an entire board of real people you want to die.

                              you have people giving you the attention you are seeking and you disregard their advice. get help. not from here, in real life.

                              I think what perplexes me is that you want to convey the message of despair yet you put the effort and energy into refuting the arguments of everyone who offers advice. It doesnt fit, sorry.
                              I appreciate all the advice I've received on this thread but I know it doesn't seem like it because I keep arguing with everyone. But at times during the day that I'm thinking clearly and I'm not completely insane, I do actually consider everyone's advice and I'm much more likely to get help if I need it than if no one had responded to me on this thread. I'm not trying to "convey the message of despair", I'm just saying exactly how I feel because there wouldn't be any point in lying and saying I'm totally fine when people are giving me good advice based on my circumstances. But thanks for making me more aware of how I sound to everyone. Tell me if this thread is too annoying and I'll stop posting.
                              Originally posted by billp View Post
                              Nothing says it even has to be the same school. Maybe you will be fine once you start eating normally again. What I mean is that if you did have to resit stuff it wouldn't really matter. Your own health is more important that school, and as long as you are in good health (i.e. eating properly) school and university related stuff is much more fixable. It is not just about motivation or pushing yourself. You can't do either of those things unless you are properly nourished, and that is going to involve eating a lot more for months, panic attacks notwithstanding. They will pass, anyway. I juist think you need a really big break to relax, rebuild your strength and appetite, and get away from studying for a while. It is making you ill. I remember being at school and things like being ashamed about dropping behind or resitting. But as an adult I realise it just doesn't matter, it is all about doing things in a way that suits you. It is one of the reasons school is such a poor preparation for life, as real life is all about rejigging things.
                              It's good to have the option of repeating year 12 but I think it really does come down to me being able to push myself to study. I don't want to waste a year of my life when I could just get this over with this year. I probably won't do as well as I would if I wasn't distracted by my food anxiety but I should be able to do well enough to not have to repeat.
                              Originally posted by oxide View Post
                              I think this is awesome!!! This is a real improvement over how you used to be. And your posting here is helping you, even if you don't think so. Please keep reading, keep talking, keep answering questions.

                              Today's question: How do you feel about, say 900 calories a day? I know 2000 calories freaks you out, but can you handle 900 approximately? It's less food than you need, but if you make those calories chock full of nutrition, it's workable.
                              I'm glad not everyone wants me to leave because last night I know I probably sounded like I was just looking for attention or something but I just needed to express how I felt and unfortunately there aren't many other places I can do that.
                              I guess 900 calories might be ok but I can't predict how I'll feel afterwards because it's different everyday; some days 400 cals feels like a huge failure and some day 1000 cals is fine.

                              Originally posted by billp View Post
                              Don't ever cut yourself. No one needs to cut themselves, ever. There are lots of sports where you can hit people as hard as you like and will get hit yourself. Boxing, for example, or Krav Maga. Letting your aggression out is liberating! There is a case for saying that depression, anorexia and self-injury are all forms of aggression turned inward, because people become so attuned to not being aggressive. But humans are aggressive animals. Send your aggression outwards!
                              They wouldn't be making you eat if they didn't already know. You need their help now, not one day.

                              Every single problem you have at the moment is directly connected to not eating enough. It is the only problem that truly matters, and eating more is the only thing that will really help you.
                              I always regret cutting but I've never been an aggressive person so I don't think I'd be very good at aggressive sports.
                              My parents don't make me eat anymore as long as I'm not going to bed having not eaten all day. But if I just have something small then they don't notice the size because they assume it's enough. But I'm sure I will ask for help, I'm just not ready yet.
                              Originally posted by teach2183 View Post
                              Your parents would rather see you get help now rather than later when you have done even more damage to your body. You are shaving years off your life. Yes, it will be hard for them to hear you are struggling because they love you. But they will want you to feel better.
                              I just need some time to sort out exactly why I have this problem and how to fix it because if I tell them before I have a plan it'll become their responsibility and they won't trust me to make my own decisions anymore.
                              It is not normal to cut yourself, you need a counselor to help you with other coping mechanisms. I have been through a lot in life and once sat in my college dorm room with a bottle of pills, I thought about using my razor to cut. But I couldn't do it for sake of my niece and nephew at the time. The only way I got better was counseling to get over a traumatic event that clearly affected my whole life (which was hard for my parents to learn about). Because I developed a strong foundation with the counseling, I was able to get through my mom passing away when I was 22 by going to grief counseling and never considering any harmful ideas.
                              Sorry about your mum
                              I don't think I need help with the cutting because I don't do it that often anymore. But if I go to a counsellor I might bring it up and see what they say.
                              Originally posted by Chatty View Post
                              From Mark Sisson: How to Conduct a Personal Experiment: Cold Water Plunges | Mark's Daily Apple

                              "We’re all about the ease of Primal eating, exercising, and listening to one’s body while looking at calorie-counting with suspicion and often barely veiled scorn – “just follow these basic rules and everything will fall into place like so” – but logging data, analyzing data, and drawing conclusions from said data is really about honing your intuition. It’d be nice if we all maintained that Primal connection to our bodies, but most of us have not. Most of us have lived lives divorced from our bodies, eating weird pseudo-foods, strapped several inches of rubber to our feet, sitting in the same place for ten hours a day, staring at one electronic screen or another instead of the wide world around us, sleeping in rooms with bright blue green blinking shards of light filling our dreams, and we’re all a little confused. That’s okay. That’s to be expected. We can come back from this to reclaim our intuition, and data logs, journals, and self-experiments are how we get there.

                              You know how people say you go to college to learn how to learn? This is kinda like that.

                              What’s cool is that we can all learn something from a self-experiment. No matter what you know or think you know, you have a weak spot that can be identified and hammered out by systematically logging, journaling and testing. I know this because I have plenty of them myself. Ever since I wrote that first post on self-experimentation, I’ve been playing around with my own experiments, and I have an effective, simple methodology for testing. Also since that blog post I’ve quietly been putting the finishing touches on a new book, a 90-Day Primal Journal that will contain this methodology and deals with precisely this subject. It drops later this month."

                              ...........and the poster is pulling our leg, me-thinks!
                              Sorry, I'm not sure how that's relevant, could you explain please?

                              Comment


                              • I'm jumping in late here and I'm glad you are a bit better today.

                                But I'd like to ask you a question -

                                If you had cancer, would you hide it and refuse help? You wouldn't, right? At least not out of some sense of shame. You would go to the doctor, get the support of your family, and do what it took to get better.

                                Your disease has a fatality rate that is HIGHER than lots of different types of cancer!! Please don't allow yourself to believe that it can be managed on your own.

                                Telling someone seems like an impossible hurdle. Find a way to do it. Write it on a note and hand it to someone - a teacher, a counselor, a parent. Someone who will help you take the first steps.
                                Using low lectin/nightshade free primal to control autoimmune arthritis. (And lost 50 lbs along the way )

                                http://www.krispin.com/lectin.html

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