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Anyone here have Multiple Sclerosis?

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  • Anyone here have Multiple Sclerosis?

    I've been doing it for about a year and half and now I'm researching for someone who has M.S.
    I started googling and I'm finding articles like this one
    Low Carbohydrates Diet For Multiple Sclerosis | LIVESTRONG.COM
    What's throwing up red flags on their validity is statements like "low carb diets restrict fruits and vegetables".

    Does anyone here have experience with M.S. and the primal lifestyle or know of anyone?

    TIA!
    -dennis

  • #2
    I don't suffer from it personally, but I think you may be very interested in this; Dr. Terry Wahls Ted Talk on How She Used Diet To Cure Her MS

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Annana View Post
      I don't suffer from it personally, but I think you may be very interested in this; Dr. Terry Wahls Ted Talk on How She Used Diet To Cure Her MS
      Podcast #27: Minding My Mitochondria with Dr. Terry Wahls, MD | The Bulletproof Executive

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      • #4
        AMAZING! Thank you!
        -dennis

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        • #5
          From my experience with people with MS (not myself personally) the Primal diet is the opposite of what they should be following. PwMS have the best results following a low saturated fat diet, see the following link:
          MS Diet | Overcoming Multiple Sclerosis

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Sandra from NZ View Post
            From my experience with people with MS (not myself personally) the Primal diet is the opposite of what they should be following. PwMS have the best results following a low saturated fat diet, see the following link:
            MS Diet | Overcoming Multiple Sclerosis
            But without knowing specifics, how do we know the carbs weren't the culprit in the group that didn't do well, not the fat? Just like everything else, they are always blaming the fat. Plus, the people who ate low fat may have inadvertently been eating more vegetables and fruit which would coincide with the video above. So I have a hard time believing these studies, which is why I was hoping to find some people here who have hands on experience.
            -dennis

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            • #7
              Originally posted by d2mini View Post
              But without knowing specifics, how do we know the carbs weren't the culprit in the group that didn't do well, not the fat? Just like everything else, they are always blaming the fat. Plus, the people who ate low fat may have inadvertently been eating more vegetables and fruit which would coincide with the video above. So I have a hard time believing these studies, which is why I was hoping to find some people here who have hands on experience.
              The Swank study was done over 34 years with a follow up at 50 years, so one of the most comprehensive studies out. Read the details, check the sources, it is all there.

              I am a former president of the NZ MS Society so I know that huge numbers of PwMS follow the low saturated fat diet and have good results with it. It is not a cure (currently there is no "cure") but it can really slow the progression down and give them better quality of life.

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              • #8
                I suggest you watch Dr. Terry Wahl's presentation above, just wonder how you feel about her results. Seems quite impressive.

                Paleo Journey - Diary of my experience eating the Paleo Diet | Facebook
                Recent Blog: http://www.peakperformanceradio.net/...y-john-saville

                https://www.facebook.com/PaleoJourne...?ref=bookmarks

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by canuck416 View Post
                  I suggest you watch Dr. Terry Wahl's presentation above, just wonder how you feel about her results. Seems quite impressive.

                  Paleo Journey - Diary of my experience eating the Paleo Diet | Facebook
                  Her story is very impressive. I note that she very briefly mentions eating grass fed meat and organ meat, mainly as an accompaniment to the huge amounts of veges she recommends. Nowhere does she recommend eating large amounts of saturated fats. Grass fed meat generally has less saturated fats than grain fed meat. Her diet is extremely similar to the Swank diet except he doesn't recommend eating red meat because of the saturated fat content.

                  What I see on this website regarding the Primal diet is huge amounts of red meat, high saturated fat like butter and cream, low amounts of fruit and veges (some even omit them altogether) and no grains. Dr Wahl recommends huge amounts of green veges and fruits, high omega 3 fats from fish, grass fed meat (eg. lower saturated fat) and no grains. So the only things that match are "no grains". Which is why I said that the Primal diet put forth on this website is the opposite of what people with MS should be eating.

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                  • #10
                    It is not a story, it is n=1.

                    Found a PDF of some of her recommendations. She also says in her presentation she follows a paleo/primal diet...

                    http://www.thewahlsfoundation.com/wp...ur_DESTINY.pdf

                    She does talk about coconut oil and some of the recipes on her forum use coconut milk.

                    Primal is not about low fruit and vegetables, it is about choosing highly nutritious food, some vegetable choices (like white potato) do not deliver the maximum nutrition when compared to others. White potato of itself is not bad, but when it is your vegetable of choice, you may not be getting the nutrition you need. The reality is very few truly primal or paleo people omit them altogether, most do try and eat as many vegetables and fruit that they can. I am not sure where you got that idea from, certainly not the book Mark Sisson has written.

                    Some people do not eat as much butter as others, but when looking at illness caused by poor nutrition, butter does not seem to be the problem. It would be interesting to know if Terri puts butter on some of those vegetables, as butter can make the nutrients more bio available.
                    Life. Be in it.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Sandra from NZ View Post
                      Her story is very impressive. I note that she very briefly mentions eating grass fed meat and organ meat, mainly as an accompaniment to the huge amounts of veges she recommends. Nowhere does she recommend eating large amounts of saturated fats. Grass fed meat generally has less saturated fats than grain fed meat. Her diet is extremely similar to the Swank diet except he doesn't recommend eating red meat because of the saturated fat content.

                      What I see on this website regarding the Primal diet is huge amounts of red meat, high saturated fat like butter and cream, low amounts of fruit and veges (some even omit them altogether) and no grains. Dr Wahl recommends huge amounts of green veges and fruits, high omega 3 fats from fish, grass fed meat (eg. lower saturated fat) and no grains. So the only things that match are "no grains". Which is why I said that the Primal diet put forth on this website is the opposite of what people with MS should be eating.
                      About 25 minutes into the Bulletproof Exec podcast, she addresses the saturated fat question. It's not possible for something (saturated fat) to be therapeutic and not therapeutic at the same time. If saturated fats helps seizures and cognitive decline, it can't hurt MS or other diseases. Natural selection isn't going to work that way. Though, as a respectable scientist, she does say that she does not know if saturated fats help cases beyond seizures and cognitive decline. But she definitely did not say "eat grass fed beef... except the saturated fat part." She also didn't say anything about the current fad of "safe starches." In fact, quite the opposite in her personal experience.

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                      • #12
                        While Dr Wahl's experience is impressive, she is just one person. Professor George Jelinek is a well qualified, well researched, well published and well awarded doctor in Australia who also happens to have MS.
                        About Professor Jelinek | Overcoming Multiple Sclerosis
                        His advice has not only helped himself but thousands of other people.

                        JS290 says "If saturated fats helps seizures and cognitive decline, it can't hurt MS or other diseases." Trouble with that statement is that MS does not usually result in seizures or cognitive decline. MS is an auto-immune disease where the body attacks the myelin sheath (protective coating) around the nerves resulting in the electrical impulses not getting through. Thus the messages from the brain to our limbs does not get through. This is why MS affects the legs and hands first. Seizures are rare. Cognitive decline does not usually occur until the very late stages, if at all.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Sandra from NZ View Post
                          The Swank study was done over 34 years with a follow up at 50 years, so one of the most comprehensive studies out. Read the details, check the sources, it is all there.
                          Yes, i saw the timeline, i just didn't see what foods they ate other than the diet being low fat. Which like i was saying, may have been really similar to the diet in the video.
                          I'm not arguing or discounting the study one bit, I just question whether or not fat is really the culprit.
                          -dennis

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                          • #14
                            Thanks for your feedback. There is some variation in the Paleo/Primal approach to eating. Some, as you say, are totally meat focused while others include a lot of vegetables and some fruit. I think as research goes on it will be discovered that it may not be the saturated fats but sugar, grain based carbs or perhaps trans fats that are the problem as they were not the focus of the previous research. Are you aware of any current or pending research focused on these foods as related to MS?

                            On another note medium chain fatty-acids prevalent in coconut oil seem to have significant impact on Alzheimer's patients and was wondering if you were aware of any studies of their impact on other neurodegenerative diseases or auto-immune diseases like MS?

                            http://www.facebook.com/PaleoJourney...ngThePaleoDiet
                            Last edited by canuck416; 05-25-2012, 07:35 AM.
                            Recent Blog: http://www.peakperformanceradio.net/...y-john-saville

                            https://www.facebook.com/PaleoJourne...?ref=bookmarks

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                            • #15
                              I am not aware of any current research relating to diet and MS (there is a lot of research going on though, so there may be). Areas being looked at include Vitamin D (good results with high doses of vitamin D, especially in Winter), also Stem Cell research is looking promising. CCSVI looks to be a waste of time. Chronic cerebrospinal venous insufficiency - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
                              It seems as though the build up of deposits in the veins is a symptom of MS, not a cause.

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