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Interesting -The Carbohydrate Hypothesis of Obesity: a Critical Examination

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  • Interesting -The Carbohydrate Hypothesis of Obesity: a Critical Examination

    http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.co...esity.html?m=1

    I've been browsing the site and eating primal for ~ 5 months now with decent, but not overwhelming results. Came across the above article a week ago. Curious what folks think.

  • #2
    It's right, the CIH is bunk.
    There's a reason no one outside of the low-carb circles take much notice of Taubes.

    Comment


    • #3
      Fatty Acid Oxidation

      ...the mobilization of fat from adipose tissue is inhibited by numerous stimuli. The most significant inhibition is that exerted upon adenylate cyclase by insulin. When an individual is in the well fed state, insulin released from the pancreas prevents the inappropriate mobilization of stored fat. Instead, any excess fat and carbohydrate are incorporated into the triacylglycerol pool within adipose tissue.
      Obesity is but one expression of insulin resistance and poor glucose control. What are the actual mechanism by which we become insulin resistant? Excessive fructose? Muscle glycogen stores always full?

      Comment


      • #4
        INSULIN DOES NOT CAUSE FAT GAIN.

        Dietary fat is directly stored as body fat. Carbohydrate is not directly stored as body fat. When you eat a high carbohydrate diet, it is not the carbs making you fat, it is all the dietary fat you eat alongside the carbs. Here is what happens:

        Let's assume you have a maintenance calorie level of 2,500. If you eat over 2,500 calories you gain weight, if you eat less you lose weight.

        Guy #1 eats 2,200 calories worth of fat. After eating all the dietary fat, it's all stored as fat. However, since his insulin levels are low, he is constantly burning fat. While he stored a whole lot of fat from his meal, he winds up burning it all off and overall is at a deficit for the day.

        Guy #2 eats 2,200 calories worth of carbs. His fat metabolism is shut off. He is no longer burning fat as fuel. However, none of those carbs were stored as body fat. They were all partitioned as glycogen. Throughout the course of the day, he burns off 2,200 calories worth of glucose and winds up with a 300 calorie deficit for the day, which comes from his stored fat after he ran out of glucose to burn directly.

        It doesn't matter if you eat fat or carbs. Just eat real food. There is no metabolic advantage. Eat what keeps you fullest and what makes you feel best.
        Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by js290 View Post
          Obesity is but one expression of insulin resistance and poor glucose control. What are the actual mechanism by which we become insulin resistant? Excessive fructose? Muscle glycogen stores always full?
          Snacking. It's the constant eating that makes people insulin resistant and diabetic. Constant snacking has your blood sugar constantly elevated, so your insulin is constantly elevated. Over time, your body gets used to having elevated insulin and forgets what it's like to have normalized blood glucose and circulating insulin. The only time the average American fasts is during their sleep. You can eat 400g of carbs a day if you did it all over the course of 4 hours. Then, your insulin and blood glucose will be baseline 18 hours a day. For the average American, it's elevated 18 hours a day and baseline 6 hours a day. That is the issue.

          This is why I do 16/8 fast/eat windows every day, and usually throw in a 24 hour fast every week. It makes me crazy insulin sensitive since my body is so used to being baseline. I just ate 725g of sweet potatoes, half an entire watermelon (1.5kg WITHOUT the rind), a quart of Greek yogurt and a pound of turkey. No crash at all.
          Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by js290 View Post
            . What are the actual mechanism by which we become insulin resistant? Excessive fructose? Muscle glycogen stores always full?
            I would guess a combination of, but not limited to: over consumption of soda and fast food, cakes and sweets, addictive high fat carbs with bad oils, lack of activity, constantly eating and over consumption of calories, non-satiating junk foods, easy availability of such foods, toxins, additives, deficiencies, lack of sleep, stress, smoking, alcohol, drugs, genetics, etc.
            Last edited by Forgotmylastusername; 05-14-2012, 08:43 PM.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Forgotmylastusername View Post
              I would guess a combination of, but not limited to: over consumption of soda and fast food, cakes and sweets, addictive high fat carbs with bad oils, lack of activity, constantly eating and over consumption of calories, non-satiating junk foods, easy availability of such foods, toxins, additives, stress, smoking, alcohol, drugs, genetics, etc.
              I think, I'm very close to calling the lifestyle I'm doing, KISS. I find Paleo/Primal grounded in common sense, if anything else. A lot of the tips/dictates are somewhat no-brainers: get sleep; play; eat when hungry, until no longer hungry; don't eat if not hungry; go outside, get sun; eat the bare necessities; and nothing overcomplicated, with respect to creation/processing.
              If you have a problem with what you read: 1. Get a dictionary 2. Don't read it 3. Grow up 4. After 3, go back to 1/ or 2. -- Dennis Blue. | "I don't care about your opinion, only your analysis"- Professor Calabrese. | "Life is more important than _______" - Drew | I eat animals that eat vegetables -- Matt Millen, former NFL Linebacker. | "This country is built on sugar & shit that comes in a box marinated in gluten - abc123

              Comment


              • #8
                Yeah, these fellas get obsessed with obesity only....and then try to distill it down to just one hormone or response when there are obviously cascades of hormones and complex interplay. In the end even Stephan doesn't however argue with the prescription. They all seem to recognize low carb is well proven as an intervention, they just disagree about the mechanisms by which the improvement occurs.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
                  INSULIN DOES NOT CAUSE FAT GAIN.
                  Hmm... that's not what the medical texts say....

                  Originally posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
                  Dietary fat is directly stored as body fat. Carbohydrate is not directly stored as body fat. When you eat a high carbohydrate diet, it is not the carbs making you fat, it is all the dietary fat you eat alongside the carbs. Here is what happens:

                  Let's assume you have a maintenance calorie level of 2,500. If you eat over 2,500 calories you gain weight, if you eat less you lose weight.
                  Are you sure about that?

                  Fat Head Fat Mice And The Laws of Thermodynamics
                  At the end of first experiment (four weeks), the calorie-restricted mice weighed a teeny bit less than their free-eating counterparts — the difference was not statistically significant, but it was there. However, the calorie-restricted mice also had 68.5% more fat mass, and 12.3% less lean mass.

                  Being put on a diet made them fatter.

                  At the end of the second experiment (three weeks), the average weight for both groups was virtually identical — it was also virtually identical to their baseline weights. But the calorie-restricted mice had 43.6% more fat mass and 6.4% less lean mass than the free-eating control mice. Once again, being put on a diet made them fatter.

                  Well, clearly, those fat little calorie-restricted mice must’ve spent too much time sitting around watching reruns of The Biggest Loser while their free-eating cousins were whipping themselves into shape by running on the big wheel, right?

                  Nope. According to the study data, there was no difference in locomotor activity levels between the two groups.

                  The calorie-restricted mice ate less, they moved around just as much, but they ended up weighing the same as the mice allowed to eat freely, and also ended up with more fat and less muscle. Oh, dear me … did these mice find a way to violate the laws of thermodynamics?
                  Originally posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
                  Guy #1 eats 2,200 calories worth of fat. After eating all the dietary fat, it's all stored as fat. However, since his insulin levels are low, he is constantly burning fat. While he stored a whole lot of fat from his meal, he winds up burning it all off and overall is at a deficit for the day.
                  What would happen if his insulin levels were high?


                  Originally posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
                  Guy #2 eats 2,200 calories worth of carbs. His fat metabolism is shut off. He is no longer burning fat as fuel. However, none of those carbs were stored as body fat. They were all partitioned as glycogen. Throughout the course of the day, he burns off 2,200 calories worth of glucose and winds up with a 300 calorie deficit for the day, which comes from his stored fat after he ran out of glucose to burn directly.
                  Wait, so which is it? Is he burning off the glucose or storing it as glycogen?

                  Originally posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
                  It doesn't matter if you eat fat or carbs. Just eat real food. There is no metabolic advantage. Eat what keeps you fullest and what makes you feel best.
                  Fatty Acid Oxidation
                  The oxidation of fatty acids yields significantly more energy per carbon atom than does the oxidation of carbohydrates. The net result of the oxidation of one mole of oleic acid (an 18-carbon fatty acid) will be 146 moles of ATP (2 mole equivalents are used during the activation of the fatty acid), as compared with 114 moles from an equivalent number of glucose carbon atoms.
                  146 = 114?
                  Last edited by js290; 05-14-2012, 08:46 PM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    You're cherrypicking information and selectively quoting. There have been countless studies where people are put on low fat/high carb diets and high fat/low carb diets and the outcome is always the same - the weight loss is statistically even provided calories are the same.

                    How We Get Fat | BodyRecomposition - The Home of Lyle McDonald

                    ^^^That is how it works. This is THE best summary you'll find. I've never seen a study using mice worth quoting. Have you ever analyzed the diets of mice? The high fat diets are typically omega 6 oils and they're always refined foods. The mice are never fed actual foods. Any success people have on low carb diets is attributed to the fact higher fat/higher protein foods provide better satiety, leading to less snacking and a reduced calorie intake.
                    Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Forgotmylastusername View Post
                      I would guess a combination of, but not limited to: over consumption of soda and fast food, cakes and sweets, addictive high fat carbs with bad oils, lack of activity, constantly eating and over consumption of calories, non-satiating junk foods, easy availability of such foods, toxins, additives, deficiencies, lack of sleep, stress, smoking, alcohol, drugs, genetics, etc.
                      Of those, which one has the biggest effect?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by js290 View Post
                        Of those, which one has the biggest effect?
                        In terms of fat loss, the one you're eating the most calories from.

                        In terms of health, omega 6 oils are the worst as a generality. Worse than sugar or grains.
                        Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by js290 View Post
                          Of those, which one has the biggest effect?
                          Actually in terms of insulin resistance you can become so within hours of an infectious disease (sepsis) and in just a few days of inadequate rest.
                          Last edited by Neckhammer; 05-14-2012, 08:57 PM.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Neckhammer View Post
                            Actually in terms of insulin resistance you can become so within hours of an infectious disease and in just a few days of inadequate rest.
                            Interesting, but not surprised on the inadequate rest point.
                            If you have a problem with what you read: 1. Get a dictionary 2. Don't read it 3. Grow up 4. After 3, go back to 1/ or 2. -- Dennis Blue. | "I don't care about your opinion, only your analysis"- Professor Calabrese. | "Life is more important than _______" - Drew | I eat animals that eat vegetables -- Matt Millen, former NFL Linebacker. | "This country is built on sugar & shit that comes in a box marinated in gluten - abc123

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
                              You're cherrypicking information and selectively quoting.
                              How so?

                              Originally posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
                              There have been countless studies where people are put on low fat/high carb diets and high fat/low carb diets and the outcome is always the same - the weight loss is statistically even provided calories are the same.


                              Originally posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
                              How We Get Fat | BodyRecomposition - The Home of Lyle McDonald

                              ^^^That is how it works. This is THE best summary you'll find. I've never seen a study using mice worth quoting. Have you ever analyzed the diets of mice? The high fat diets are typically omega 6 oils and they're always refined foods. The mice are never fed actual foods.
                              Now who's cherry picking and selectively quoting? I thought you were talking about counting calories. Or, are you suggesting counting calories work differently in mice than they do in humans?

                              Originally posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
                              Any success people have on low carb diets is attributed to the fact higher fat/higher protein foods provide better satiety, leading to less snacking and a reduced calorie intake.
                              Why can't it be attributed to: However, since his insulin levels are low, he is constantly burning fat. Notice the selective quoting...

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