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  • #16
    Originally posted by Greg Rx View Post
    So now we are back to calories in, calories out, bull shit? Why drag us down like That? Just because you do well on a high carb diet, doesn't mean you should constantly preach against the basic Paleo weight loss diet. You are doing much more harm than good.
    As far as CO is concerned, MCT are to an insulin resistant person as a potato is to you, immediate energy. (CO is 60% MCT. )To a leptin resistant person, any high carb food will trigger hunger and cravings for the rest of the day, or longer.
    What are you talking about? CICO is all that matters in terms of weight loss - you can't lose weight without an energy deficit, and as far as the least nutritious diet possible goes, it's hard to find anything less nutritious than isolated fat. Coconut oil is fundamentally on the same footing as white sugar - it is empty calories, pure energy and extremely fattening since it is the most calorie-dense "food" out there. Sure, coconut oil is less fattening than soybean oil due to the composition of its fatty acids, but it's still more fattening than any actual real food. I'm sorry to disturb your happy fantasy that you can eat anything and everything in sight as long as you keep "X macronutrient" low, but it doesn't work that way. If you want to lose weight, you have to consume less energy than you expend.

    If you want the benefits of coconut, I suggest eating actual coconut instead of the isolated oil, or perhaps making Asian-style curries with coconut milk. I have two 54oz jars of virgin coconut oil on my shelf, and it will easily last me into the back half of 2014. It is a cooking tool, not real food meant to be consumed by the spoonful.

    As for my diet, I lift heavy 4 times a week and average around 175g of carbs a day. Is that "high carb"?
    Last edited by ChocoTaco369; 09-26-2013, 01:15 PM.
    Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

    Comment


    • #17
      So what, if any, are the benefits of adding it to coffee in the morning before exercise or just plain CO after exercise?

      I just swallowed a Tbsp. full to increase my calories to 927 and fat ratio to 61% for today. I am too full for any more food.

      This is all new to me and I am enjoying learning from all you experts!
      Paleo Diet: 8-25-13 Wt: 185 BF% 27
      Primal Diet (Lower Fat/Carb): 9-27, Wt: 176.4
      Potato Hack Diet (Rotation): 11-12, Wt: 171.2
      Primal Diet (LF/C): 1-23-14, Wt: 159.6
      1-30-2014 - 157 (lowest weight since 2004)
      GAPS/SCD 12-29-2014
      CW: 164 GW: 130-135 CBF%: 24.38
      49 - 5'7.5"
      Macros (PFC) 30/40/30

      Comment


      • #18
        I buy these creamed coconut squares which are just ground up dried coconut meat. Like coconut-peanutbutter. The oil and 'dry' matter separate, like in natural peanut butter, and you can chop the coconut oil off and cook with it. The 'dry' matter you can eat like candy. (:
        1 200g blok is like 1 dollar.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by MsSmith View Post
          So what, if any, are the benefits of adding it to coffee in the morning before exercise or just plain CO after exercise?

          I just swallowed a Tbsp. full to increase my calories to 927 and fat ratio to 61% for today. I am too full for any more food.

          This is all new to me and I am enjoying learning from all you experts!
          There is no benefit. It's this weird "fat is always good" myth that tends to proliferate around here. If you're full eating 927 calories where much of it is refined fat, you'd likely be even fuller on less calories subbing those wasted calories on real food like eggs, steak and potatoes. Certainly you'd be getting a lot more nutrition.
          Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by MsSmith View Post
            So what, if any, are the benefits of adding it to coffee in the morning before exercise or just plain CO after exercise?

            I just swallowed a Tbsp. full to increase my calories to 927 and fat ratio to 61% for today. I am too full for any more food.

            This is all new to me and I am enjoying learning from all you experts!
            I did some searches and found that it's basically to prolong fasting and promote energy if used in coffee before a workout and pretty much the same thing by itself after a workout.

            I think I'd rather be completely fasted (with coffee only) before my workout, to burn fat stores. After a workout I am usually not hungry for 1-2 hours. I don't see the benefit of adding so many calories and fat before or after a fasting workout. If I am wrong, someone please let me know, ok?
            Paleo Diet: 8-25-13 Wt: 185 BF% 27
            Primal Diet (Lower Fat/Carb): 9-27, Wt: 176.4
            Potato Hack Diet (Rotation): 11-12, Wt: 171.2
            Primal Diet (LF/C): 1-23-14, Wt: 159.6
            1-30-2014 - 157 (lowest weight since 2004)
            GAPS/SCD 12-29-2014
            CW: 164 GW: 130-135 CBF%: 24.38
            49 - 5'7.5"
            Macros (PFC) 30/40/30

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by MsSmith View Post
              I did some searches and found that it's basically to prolong fasting and promote energy if used in coffee before a workout and pretty much the same thing by itself after a workout.

              I think I'd rather be completely fasted (with coffee only) before my workout, to burn fat stores. After a workout I am usually not hungry for 1-2 hours. I don't see the benefit of adding so many calories and fat before or after a fasting workout. If I am wrong, someone please let me know, ok?
              The benefit is your consuming fat calories that can be used as energy. It's the same thing as eating sugar, refined carbs, or protein powders around a workout: calories + macronutrients without any nutrition. We all need protein, carbs and fats and everybody has their own opinion on the best ratios and timing for each, but they shouldn't be consumed in the form of empty calories. I put all oil, sugar, refined carbs, and protein powder in the same category: too easily consumed macronutrients without micronutrients. If you feel you need coconut first thing in the morning, eat a coconut. When you start to eat whole foods you may see that it really does or doesn't feel right to eat a certain way. Some may say they're short on time, they can't eat enough whole food or they need a certain macro right this second, but I'd always wait until I can get real food, eat less meals and/or workout less before eating anything processed.
              Last edited by healthyeater; 09-26-2013, 05:33 PM.

              Comment


              • #22
                Also, someone may argue that they want to be a on a high saturated fat diet and it's too hard for them to achieve this without resorting to coconut oil, butter, etc. I recently saw a video of a guy who eats nothing but fruit and wants to be on a high sugar diet. When he couldn't get fruit, he started eating pure sugar by the ton. It's the same concept. I'd opt for for whole foods before empty calories and some specific macro ratio.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by healthyeater View Post
                  The benefit is your consuming fat calories that can be used as energy. It's the same thing as eating sugar, refined carbs, or protein powders around a workout: calories + macronutrients without any nutrition. We all need protein, carbs and fats and everybody has their own opinion on the best ratios and timing for each, but they shouldn't be consumed in the form of empty calories. I put all oil, sugar, refined carbs, and protein powder in the same category: too easily consumed macronutrients without micronutrients. If you feel you need coconut first thing in the morning, eat a coconut. When you start to eat whole foods you may see that it really does or doesn't feel right to eat a certain way. Some may say they're short on time, they can't eat enough whole food or they need a certain macro right this second, but I'd always wait until I can get real food, eat less meals and/or workout less before eating anything processed.
                  Thank you. I haven't had any problems with energy, exercising on an empty stomach. If that changes, I will reconsider.
                  Paleo Diet: 8-25-13 Wt: 185 BF% 27
                  Primal Diet (Lower Fat/Carb): 9-27, Wt: 176.4
                  Potato Hack Diet (Rotation): 11-12, Wt: 171.2
                  Primal Diet (LF/C): 1-23-14, Wt: 159.6
                  1-30-2014 - 157 (lowest weight since 2004)
                  GAPS/SCD 12-29-2014
                  CW: 164 GW: 130-135 CBF%: 24.38
                  49 - 5'7.5"
                  Macros (PFC) 30/40/30

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Saying that coconut oil is just a source of calories is like saying sweet potatoes are just another form of insulin spiking sugar.
                    Cococonut oil is 60% MCT

                    from Hammer nutrition
                    The health benefits from 1-3 tablespoons Extra Virgin Coconut Oil are:

                    1. Prevents Ischemic Heart Disease
                    2. Inhibits or kills harmful microbes such Helicobacter pylori, Hemophilus influenzae, Listeria monocytogenes, Staphylococcus aureus, Aspergillus niger, Giardia lamblia Protozoa, Cytomegalovirus (CMV), and HIV virus
                    3. Increases the body’s Basal Metabolic Rate (BMR)
                    4. Lowers elevated total serum cholesterol levels
                    5. Stimulates the conversion of cholesterol to pregnenolone
                    6. Increases HDL (“good”) cholesterol levels
                    7. Increases production of Interleukin 10
                    8. Lowers LDL (“bad”) cholesterol levels
                    9. Lowers VLDL (Very-low-density lipoprotein – “bad”) cholesterol levels
                    10. Lowers elevated serum Triglycerides levels
                    11. Lowers Interleukin 1 (beta) levels
                    12. Lowers Interleukin 6 levels
                    13. Lowers Tumor Necrosis Factor (TNF) levels
                    14. Lowers Lipoprotein (a) levels

                    USE ONLY: Extra Virgin Coconut Oil

                    From pharmacistBen.com
                    Perhaps the most significant role MCTs provide for good health is in the realm of weight loss. Diet conscious health enthusiasts can benefit from MCTs unique metabolic chemistry in three ways. First of all, MCTs provide drive lipid biochemistry with 10 per cent fewer calories than ordinary fat. Secondly, MCTs are rapidly converted into energy. This means that they are much more likely than other fats to be uses as a source of fuel, rather than being stored. In this manner they function more like carbohydrates than fats. Yet, in contrast to carbs, they have no significant effect on insulin. This makes them an ideal source of energy for diabetics. Thirdly, unlike ordinary lipids, MCTs have been shown to increase thermogenesis (fat burning), which may result in an actual loss of calories.

                    also from pharmacistben.com

                    In addition to providing weight reduction benefits, MCT oils have neurological enhancing properties. The fascinating fats(have) been shown to increase the production of “ketones” which may provide benefits for senescent brains. Ketones are known as a potent and stable non-sugar source of energy to the brain.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Greg Rx View Post
                      In addition to providing weight reduction benefits, MCT oils have neurological enhancing properties. The fascinating fats(have) been shown to increase the production of “ketones” which may provide benefits for senescent brains. Ketones are known as a potent and stable non-sugar source of energy to the brain.
                      I am not sure ketones would be used if you are not in a ketotic state (aka super low carb). MCT metabolism does lead to ketone production in the liver but in a non ketotic state, I think you just pee them ... maybe you could check that ?

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Greg Rx View Post
                        Saying that coconut oil is just a source of calories is like saying sweet potatoes are just another form of insulin spiking sugar.
                        No, it isn't. A sweet potato is mostly water, and the calories that are there are loaded with vitamins and minerals. Coconut oil is a refined fat with essentially zero vitamins and minerals and no water content. One is a food, one is a man-made cooking lubricant.

                        One is a whole food, one is a man-made creation. Carbohydrate increases the metabolic rate more than MCT's do, so even your skewed comparison kind of worked against you. You would have been better advised to compare it to an avocado or something fatty.
                        Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by FrenchFry View Post
                          I am not sure ketones would be used if you are not in a ketotic state (aka super low carb). MCT metabolism does lead to ketone production in the liver but in a non ketotic state, I think you just pee them ... maybe you could check that ?
                          This is precisely why coconut oil is empty calories. MCT's aren't used for structure, so it's similar to drinking alcohol in the sense that you aren't going to begin burning fat until your liver burns through the MCT's. It is an energy that's going to float around in you until it's used. Just because MCT's aren't directly stored as fat like LCT's are doesn't make them any less fattening - you are just going to store everything you eat alongside them as fat until you burn through the MCT's. I don't understand how people can't see this.

                          Sugar and MCT's are not directly stored as fat - you get fat eating things alongside them that are stored as fat because you have to burn the sugar and MCT's preferentially. Tagalong calories are stored. And since coconut oil is 40% LCT's, that means you store the other 40% of those calories along your waistline until you burn up all those structurally-useless MCT's.
                          Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Greg Rx View Post
                            Saying that coconut oil is just a source of calories is like saying sweet potatoes are just another form of insulin spiking sugar.
                            Cococonut oil is 60% MCT

                            from Hammer nutrition
                            The health benefits from 1-3 tablespoons Extra Virgin Coconut Oil are:

                            1. Prevents Ischemic Heart Disease
                            2. Inhibits or kills harmful microbes such Helicobacter pylori, Hemophilus influenzae, Listeria monocytogenes, Staphylococcus aureus, Aspergillus niger, Giardia lamblia Protozoa, Cytomegalovirus (CMV), and HIV virus
                            3. Increases the body’s Basal Metabolic Rate (BMR)
                            4. Lowers elevated total serum cholesterol levels
                            5. Stimulates the conversion of cholesterol to pregnenolone
                            6. Increases HDL (“good”) cholesterol levels
                            7. Increases production of Interleukin 10
                            8. Lowers LDL (“bad”) cholesterol levels
                            9. Lowers VLDL (Very-low-density lipoprotein – “bad”) cholesterol levels
                            10. Lowers elevated serum Triglycerides levels
                            11. Lowers Interleukin 1 (beta) levels
                            12. Lowers Interleukin 6 levels
                            13. Lowers Tumor Necrosis Factor (TNF) levels
                            14. Lowers Lipoprotein (a) levels

                            USE ONLY: Extra Virgin Coconut Oil

                            From pharmacistBen.com
                            Perhaps the most significant role MCTs provide for good health is in the realm of weight loss. Diet conscious health enthusiasts can benefit from MCTs unique metabolic chemistry in three ways. First of all, MCTs provide drive lipid biochemistry with 10 per cent fewer calories than ordinary fat. Secondly, MCTs are rapidly converted into energy. This means that they are much more likely than other fats to be uses as a source of fuel, rather than being stored. In this manner they function more like carbohydrates than fats. Yet, in contrast to carbs, they have no significant effect on insulin. This makes them an ideal source of energy for diabetics. Thirdly, unlike ordinary lipids, MCTs have been shown to increase thermogenesis (fat burning), which may result in an actual loss of calories.

                            also from pharmacistben.com

                            In addition to providing weight reduction benefits, MCT oils have neurological enhancing properties. The fascinating fats(have) been shown to increase the production of “ketones” which may provide benefits for senescent brains. Ketones are known as a potent and stable non-sugar source of energy to the brain.
                            OK, I will add some CO to my paleo track plan. Thanks!
                            Paleo Diet: 8-25-13 Wt: 185 BF% 27
                            Primal Diet (Lower Fat/Carb): 9-27, Wt: 176.4
                            Potato Hack Diet (Rotation): 11-12, Wt: 171.2
                            Primal Diet (LF/C): 1-23-14, Wt: 159.6
                            1-30-2014 - 157 (lowest weight since 2004)
                            GAPS/SCD 12-29-2014
                            CW: 164 GW: 130-135 CBF%: 24.38
                            49 - 5'7.5"
                            Macros (PFC) 30/40/30

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by MsSmith View Post
                              OK, I will add some CO to my paleo track plan. Thanks!
                              Coconut oil could potentially benefit you by replacing other fats in your diet for coconut oil - if you cook now with butter or olive oil, replacing them with equal quantities of coconut oil could show benefits. However, if you're simply going to add coconut oil to do you diet, meaning you're consuming everything like you normally do and you're going to eat coconut oil like it is some type of food or supplement, you'll gain weight (or slow your weight loss) because you're just adding empty calories to your diet.
                              Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
                                Coconut oil could potentially benefit you by replacing other fats in your diet for coconut oil - if you cook now with butter or olive oil, replacing them with equal quantities of coconut oil could show benefits. However, if you're simply going to add coconut oil to do you diet, meaning you're consuming everything like you normally do and you're going to eat coconut oil like it is some type of food or supplement, you'll gain weight (or slow your weight loss) because you're just adding empty calories to your diet.
                                I am currently using Ghee clarified butter (my child is gluten and casein intolerant), EVOO, and coconut oil for cooking, depending on the food I am cooking. I would like to find a lower cholesterol alternative for frying meat other than lard. I really like that CO has no cholesterol and right now I am at a pretty big calorie deficit, so I am not sure what I will do in the long-term, but right now, my mouth is watering at the thought of a tablespoon of CO. lol. (How do you feel about coconut butter?) I am new to doing this the absolute correct way and the paleo tracker and I gave up last night trying to figure out how to be in ketosis and have lower fat than is the norm for paleo and get 1200 calories a day. I even missed the Grey's Anatomy Premiere!! Y'all don't give up on me yet... I'm trying.
                                Paleo Diet: 8-25-13 Wt: 185 BF% 27
                                Primal Diet (Lower Fat/Carb): 9-27, Wt: 176.4
                                Potato Hack Diet (Rotation): 11-12, Wt: 171.2
                                Primal Diet (LF/C): 1-23-14, Wt: 159.6
                                1-30-2014 - 157 (lowest weight since 2004)
                                GAPS/SCD 12-29-2014
                                CW: 164 GW: 130-135 CBF%: 24.38
                                49 - 5'7.5"
                                Macros (PFC) 30/40/30

                                Comment

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