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Berkhan on accepting responsibility

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Leida View Post
    +1. Last week I caught myself envying fat people because they can eat a chocolate bar. Like a whole chocolate bar. Even a complete not good for you at all chocolate bar like Caramilk. They can eat a pastry... Just like that. All by themselves. In one sitting. And not even have a second fleeting thought about it.
    Ignorance is bliss.

    But I also think a lot of people here beat themselves up about doing something like you witnessed, a little too much. Clearly nobody is advocating that you do the above CONSTANTLY, but seriously people, once in a blue moon it's REALLY not going to kill you. It really won't, try it. Just don't let yourself go CRAZY. I read so many people here saying "oh nos! if I even smell a cookie I end up looting a Dairy Queen and sending myself into a sugar coma!" exercise a little will power. I am not much of a candy eater or a sweets guy (my achilles heel is salty/fried/fatty) but every now and then I eat a buttload of ice cream and nothing bad happens.

    It's so refreshing to have this knowledge but not let it FREAK ME THE FUCK OUT... which is what I see here all the time. I'm not talking just to you Leida, because I feel more than half the board is like this.

    Those are the same type of people that will read this and think I'm undermining their efforts, forgetting about their history, or calling them slobs, etc. I'm not, chill.
    Last edited by iniQuity; 04-19-2012, 07:38 AM.
    I used to seriously post here, now I prefer to troll.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by StackingPlates View Post
      Well played, Kai-man. I love it!
      lol....must admit that I have never looked this sort of thing up. Just assumed it true, and you know what they say about assumptions.

      Comment


      • #18
        I see a lot of people who are struggling post decent looking diets. Maybe a scootch high in calories. But then a few posts down "well, I have to have my daily wine" or "I do enjoy cookies" or "Oh, I also make primal cookies" or "I have a (500 calorie) smoothie" or ... "I snack on nuts too". Yeah- its all good stuff, but at some point ya gotta control/cut back if you are not seeing the results.

        I agree with Inquity. You can have the occasional treat- but treats become habit- you are eating to much. The beauty of primal/whole foods (for weightloss) is that you feel nourished and satisfied and can keep treats and snacks minimal. And over time, you can have some ice cream and it doesn't set off a chain reaction. But you can't have daily wine, occasional ice cream, nuts for snacks, smoothies and eat regular primal meals and expect to lose weight.

        http://maggiesfeast.wordpress.com/
        Check out my blog. Hope to share lots of great recipes and ideas!

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Kai-man View Post
          Actually, people never thought the earth was flat
          That's a one of the first urban legends.

          See
          - the ancient greeks who calculated the earth's circumference
          - Columbus, who was not afraid of falling off the earth
          - Globus cruciger - held by kings of old, symbolizing the church's dominion over the, spherical, world

          Myth of the Flat Earth - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

          ...just a side note :-)
          *sounds of DFH choking on a Sausage McMuffin somewhere....*

          .
          There is a huge difference between talking about how to do something and getting it fucking done.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Neckhammer View Post
            How many times does it have to be said. Nobody disputes any laws of thermodynamics. There is just a whole hell of a lot more to consider than calories in/calories out ESPECIALLY in body composition and health status. There really is no argument. You can change your BMR with the foods you eat. Hormonal reactions change how energy is utilized. That is the rub.
            Apparently, it doesn't matter how many times it's said, certain people refuse to understand that calories out is not independent of the TYPE and QUALITY of calories in.

            It's not just BMR either. Your energy levels impact how much you just plain move around in general. You simply can't control the two variables independently of one another.

            To reiterate/expand/give my take on what Neckhammer said: Calories in - calories out is valid, but changing the quantity and quality of calories in changes the number of calories out. You simply can't control both factors.

            Solution: Eat in a way that gives you the most energy and satiety. (Hint: Macros matter, fructose matters, butter is good for you)
            The Champagne of Beards

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            • #21
              Originally posted by magnolia1973 View Post
              There are very few people here who are fat that did not get that way by eating too much/moving too little.
              Actually, that's the only way to get fat. You can't make fat out of fairy dust or rainbows. You make it out of food. Same with energy. You can make it from existing energy (body fat, glycogen, etc) or ingested (food).

              The fact that the machinery is broken results in appetite not commensurate with expenditure. It's not that they consciously CHOSE to burn fewer calories and take in more than they needed. That's where the "calories matter" and the "macros matter" camps (to GROSSLY oversimplify a spectrum of viewpoints) lose one another. Nobody's denying the laws of thermodynamics (except in the above quoted sentence), we're arguing over the independence/lack therof of the variables in the equation being calculated.
              The Champagne of Beards

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              • #22
                Solution: Eat in a way that gives you the most energy and satiety. (Hint: Macros matter, fructose matters, butter is good for you)
                I think this varies per person. High fats (good fats)= great for some people. High carbs (good carbs)= great for some people. Mix of good fats and carbs= great for some people.

                SAD= bad fats plus bad carbs= bad for everyone. CW= High Carbs (good and bad)+ low fat (good and bad)= great for some people, a recipe for disaster for others.

                http://maggiesfeast.wordpress.com/
                Check out my blog. Hope to share lots of great recipes and ideas!

                Comment


                • #23
                  Although obesity is a marker of bad health, it's not the be all, end all. This in mind, I think weight loss of any kind is the side effect of fixing your insides by diet first, lifestyle second, which has been espoused by many, around here. This is something we CAN control.
                  If you have a problem with what you read: 1. Get a dictionary 2. Don't read it 3. Grow up 4. After 3, go back to 1/ or 2. -- Dennis Blue. | "I don't care about your opinion, only your analysis"- Professor Calabrese. | "Life is more important than _______" - Drew | I eat animals that eat vegetables -- Matt Millen, former NFL Linebacker. | "This country is built on sugar & shit that comes in a box marinated in gluten - abc123

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                  • #24
                    Occam's razor is downright dangerous when applied to biology, it's so complex. Berkhan's stance is less ridiculous than some of the monomaniacs he discusses in the article. All monomaniacs share the same problem though, they just have different blinkers.

                    Macro ratios, micros, eating patterns, activity, calories-in all matter IMO, to differing degrees in different individuals at different points in their lives. One-size-fits all solutions will always have a high failure rate.
                    F 5 ft 3. HW: 196 lbs. Primal SW (May 2011): 182 lbs (42% BF)... W June '12: 160 lbs (29% BF) (UK size 12, US size 8). GW: ~24% BF - have ditched the scales til I fit into a pair of UK size 10 bootcut jeans. Currently aligning towards 'The Perfect Health Diet' having swapped some fat for potatoes.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by RichMahogany View Post
                      You simply can't control the two variables independently of one another.
                      How does one achieve either energy excess or energy deficit without control of both?

                      .
                      There is a huge difference between talking about how to do something and getting it fucking done.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by magnolia1973 View Post
                        I think this varies per person. High fats (good fats)= great for some people. High carbs (good carbs)= great for some people. Mix of good fats and carbs= great for some people.

                        SAD= bad fats plus bad carbs= bad for everyone. CW= High Carbs (good and bad)+ low fat (good and bad)= great for some people, a recipe for disaster for others.
                        I agree about the variability of individuals' metabolic responses to different "macronutrients." I also think one reason the argument diverts course into the realm of the preposterous is the fact that macronutrient is really too broad a classification for what we're talking about. We react differently enough to Short/Medium/Long Chain Triglycerides that we should really consider each of them differently, not to mention trans fats, PUFA's, MUFA's, etc... (not to even mention carbohydrates).

                        Berkhan's right that we each need to take personal, individual responsibility for our food choices. I don't agree with the example implying that fructose isn't problematic, but I don't think that's his real point. I think his real point is that nobody has force-fed most of us HFCS or Agave or mushed up peas from a jar for many years. Your health is best left in your own hands, not those of the medical community, the grain industry or their pet, the USDA, or even Mark Sisson. Take everything you read and find and feel into consideration and live your life the best you can.
                        The Champagne of Beards

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by RichMahogany View Post
                          I agree about the variability of individuals' metabolic responses to different "macronutrients." I also think one reason the argument diverts course into the realm of the preposterous is the fact that macronutrient is really too broad a classification for what we're talking about. We react differently enough to Short/Medium/Long Chain Triglycerides that we should really consider each of them differently, not to mention trans fats, PUFA's, MUFA's, etc... (not to even mention carbohydrates).

                          Berkhan's right that we each need to take personal, individual responsibility for our food choices. I don't agree with the example implying that fructose isn't problematic, but I don't think that's his real point. I think his real point is that nobody has force-fed most of us HFCS or Agave or mushed up peas from a jar for many years. Your health is best left in your own hands, not those of the medical community, the grain industry or their pet, the USDA, or even Mark Sisson. Take everything you read and find and feel into consideration and live your life the best you can.
                          /end thread(?)
                          If you have a problem with what you read: 1. Get a dictionary 2. Don't read it 3. Grow up 4. After 3, go back to 1/ or 2. -- Dennis Blue. | "I don't care about your opinion, only your analysis"- Professor Calabrese. | "Life is more important than _______" - Drew | I eat animals that eat vegetables -- Matt Millen, former NFL Linebacker. | "This country is built on sugar & shit that comes in a box marinated in gluten - abc123

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Leida View Post
                            +1. Last week I caught myself envying fat people because they can eat a chocolate bar. Like a whole chocolate bar. Even a complete not good for you at all chocolate bar like Caramilk. They can eat a pastry... Just like that. All by themselves. In one sitting. And not even have a second fleeting thought about it.
                            As a non-fat person it is easy for you to think 'Oh, if I was that big I would just stuff my face without a care in the world', but perhaps they have just lost 20lbs, or their jeans barely fit any more, and they are feeling horrible about that chocolate bar.

                            Because they are 'already fat' in your view does not mean that they do not feel guilt and shame about the food they eat... And I think that it is very simplistic and demeaning to assume that since they're fat, they must not care about food. Being addicted to bad food is NOT fun, and being fat is not easy.

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                            • #29
                              It really won't, try it. Just don't let yourself go CRAZY. I read so many people here saying "oh nos! if I even smell a cookie I end up looting a Dairy Queen and sending myself into a sugar coma!" exercise a little will power. I am not much of a candy eater or a sweets guy (my achilles heel is salty/fried/fatty) but every now and then I eat a buttload of ice cream and nothing bad happens.

                              It's so refreshing to have this knowledge but not let it FREAK ME THE FUCK OUT... which is what I see here all the time. I'm not talking just to you Leida, because I feel more than half the board is like this.
                              Actually, it is pretty much my case. I touch sugar, and I am gone. It really, really, really unbalances appetite and mood for me, and gets me unhinged: I stop caring after 1 apple; I binge; I go into dark mood spells as soon as I stop eating sugar/fructose in all forms, but in a few days of horrid withdrawal suddenly everything is great... until I as much as touch sugar again. It is the same as an alcohol to an alcoholic. I mean, you wouldn't tell a chronic alcoholic to have just one shot or to a former drug addict to sniff just one (or whatever you do with the drug of choice), no? It is more complex than just will power, I am pretty sure about it. Food was accepted as a drug by those Ancient Greeks who measured the circumference of Earth. Granted, not as addictive a drug as cocaine

                              Ice cream doesn't harm you because you have no 'sweet tooth', i.e. no predisposition to sugar addiction. You can't extend you experience towards those who do have an addiction. I have never touched a drop of alcohol in my life (save for kefir, vanilla extract or kvas, that has some low degree of alcohol in it), so I am not going to venture an opinion on how hard or easy it is to turn down a beer or a glass of a good wine....
                              My Journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread57916.html
                              When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be.

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                              • #30
                                As a non-fat person it is easy for you to think 'Oh, if I was that big I would just stuff my face without a care in the world', but perhaps they have just lost 20lbs, or their jeans barely fit any more, and they are feeling horrible about that chocolate bar.

                                Because they are 'already fat' in your view does not mean that they do not feel guilt and shame about the food they eat... And I think that it is very simplistic and demeaning to assume that since they're fat, they must not care about food. Being addicted to bad food is NOT fun, and being fat is not easy.
                                Fair enough. I beat myself up all the time when I eat too much or the wrong food. In fact, rarely a day passes that i don't experience a sharp tang of shame for one fat loss self-sabotage move or another. And, yeah, I was overweight for 2 years, because I did not care. I will be overweight in a month, and obese in a year if I stop caring. I tend to get envious of fat people. It is politically incorrect, mean and stupid, but it is an emotion I experience as someone who has fought since age 12 to stay not fat & knows how much more enjoyable the life could be in all aspects but one (reflection in the mirror) when you accept being fat. I am happy to offer my experiences to any person trying to lose weight and do whatever i can to support. But I envy them if they just eat what they want and just don't care. That takes guts.
                                Last edited by Leida; 04-19-2012, 08:27 AM.
                                My Journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread57916.html
                                When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be.

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