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  • #76
    thorough scientific ripping apart...never saw one, just a rant.

    A scientist would think to themselves: I think this is BS then go and do a study with various people and document the bloodwork results. A scientist would then collate the results to find the truth.

    Bad science is a knee jerk reaction

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    • #77
      Originally posted by JudyMac View Post
      A scientist would think to themselves: I think this is BS then go and do a study with various people and document the bloodwork results.
      If there are known false assumptions apparent in the very hypothesis to be tested, what would be the point?
      The Champagne of Beards

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      • #78
        Originally posted by JudyMac View Post
        I was first referring to my own experience with it. It was right about some foods for me.

        As for mentioning Ancel Keyes and his evidence in 1970s, that is documented fact. Scotland and the Scottish race are cited by him as among those for whom HCLF diet may not work. Perhaps you should actually read his papers before commenting. Then you should make fascetious comments to the US Government who endorsed his work and used it to create the abortion that is the present Standard American High Carb Diet.

        Whilst blood type is not really relevent, and I did say that, genetics certainly is and your blood type is governed by your genetics.

        The end.
        I didn't make any comments about the work of Ancel Keys. I was talking about connecting blood type to metabolic health, which has nothing to do with Keys. I really wasn't trying to pick on you. I just used your quote as a lead in to my response.

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        • #79
          Originally posted by JudyMac View Post
          thorough scientific ripping apart...never saw one, just a rant.

          A scientist would think to themselves: I think this is BS then go and do a study with various people and document the bloodwork results. A scientist would then collate the results to find the truth.

          Bad science is a knee jerk reaction
          If you knew anything about genetics, you would know that testing this hypothesis is a complete waste of time. There is no such thing as bad science. There is actual science and there is attempted science that fails to meet scientific standards. The blood type diet is neither, in that science is not even attempted. It is simply meaningless drivel on the level of "creation science" or alchemy. If you are not educated in a particular field, you should refrain from making claims about issues that require such an education.

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          • #80
            Originally posted by RichMahogany View Post
            If there are known false assumptions apparent in the very hypothesis to be tested, what would be the point?
            You know that applies to Paleo/Primal? Most bad scientists have the knee jerk reaction that it would be bad because of fats.

            In fact Dr Atkins was brought before a medical board on charges of 'Doing Harm' via his recommended diet. He actually brought 300 medical files with him to the board and showed the blood work results. Based on hard scientific fact the board did not rescind his license to practice medicine...the bloodwork results proved that he had 'done no harm' a major part of the Hippocratic oath.

            Now, I personally can see holes in the Adamo blood type idea....especially the lectins. However there are links between disease and blood types. Much of the work on that is being done by Pennsylvania University (USA) and Edinburgh University (UK). The link between food and general illness is also acknowledged, bad diet=ill health.

            As a scientist I'd say that his idea needed a full clinical study.
            Why? First we are not talking about Peter Adamo and his spin on things, but his father who saw a physical difference in bloodwork depending on food eaten. This is possible, indeed one of the standard tests on bloodwork is its viscosity. Modern science has moved on since he 'saw' this, we have better analysis now.

            It may turn out that the blood type was just a flag, not the cause, or that it is total BS. However to improve our scientific knowledge of how people react to food it would be a study worth doing.

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            • #81
              Originally posted by JudyMac View Post
              You know that applies to Paleo/Primal? Most bad scientists have the knee jerk reaction that it would be bad because of fats.
              You're conflating a bit of CW that we believe to be misguided about fat content of our diets with claims that are roughly equivalent to unicorns and fairy godmothers. We know the "hypothesis" (isn't really one) behind the blood typing diet relies on assumptions that are demonstrably not the case.

              You can't improve scientific knowledge by running random experiments based on outlandish claims, you have to do so by positing an explanation of a mechanism in a feasible way and testing the universe to see if it follows your proposed rule.
              The Champagne of Beards

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              • #82
                Originally posted by JudyMac View Post

                As a scientist I'd say that his idea needed a full clinical study.
                Are you a scientist? In what capacity?

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                • #83
                  Originally posted by RichMahogany View Post
                  You're conflating a bit of CW that we believe to be misguided about fat content of our diets with claims that are roughly equivalent to unicorns and fairy godmothers. We know the "hypothesis" (isn't really one) behind the blood typing diet relies on assumptions that are demonstrably not the case.

                  You can't improve scientific knowledge by running random experiments based on outlandish claims, you have to do so by positing an explanation of a mechanism in a feasible way and testing the universe to see if it follows your proposed rule.
                  You have read the original hypothesis? It sounds more like you are reacting to marketing hype about the Blood Type diet.

                  In the modern version, it links the behaviour of the blood agglutination to lectins as a fact, in the original it is posed as a possibility that needed study. Knowing what we now do about lectins, this seems unlikely. However the fact is that he saw the physical change, and Dr Peter Adamo Snr was a blood work specialist. Whether that change was caused by bad practice or a real food connection is worth study in my opinion.

                  Also of note, all those type Os? He recommended a diet that reads as pure Paleo/Primal (recommnding dumping cereals and legumes), which would benefit a higher percentage of the population than the 1% Ancel Keyes believed to be aided by HCLF. A study done using his food recommendations would benefit HFLC scientific study as well.

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                  • #84
                    Originally posted by The Scientist View Post
                    Are you a scientist? In what capacity?
                    I love the idea that you feel anyone disagreeing with your narrow minded view is not a scientist. Obviously your type of science can not use a mouse...if you bothered looking it is there.

                    Oh and its Dr, not the medical variety though.

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                    • #85
                      Originally posted by JudyMac View Post
                      I love the idea that you feel anyone disagreeing with your narrow minded view is not a scientist. Obviously your type of science can not use a mouse...if you bothered looking it is there.

                      Oh and its Dr, not the medical variety though.
                      I simply asked if you were, in fact, a scientist like you claimed to be. I also have a PhD. Mine is in cell biology. I'm telling you that you are wildly ignorant to the topic you are discussing. You are embarrassing yourself.

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                      • #86
                        Oh my lord, this is the funniest thread ever.

                        The blood type diet is quite possibly the stupidest, most absurd hypothesis ever to rear its ugly head. Seriously, if our good health depended on knowing our blood type and adhering thusly to a set of "good" and "bad" foods, how in the good goddamn did we ever survive and evolve as a species for this long, a time period in which we've known about blood types for the proverbial blink of an eye?! How anyone can believe in this stuff at all is completely beyond me.

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                        • #87
                          Originally posted by JudyMac View Post
                          I was first referring to my own experience with it. It was right about some foods for me.
                          Yeah, but some parts of your horoscope are right for you too.

                          I think that blood type stuff is BS.

                          The Scientist is completely and very right.
                          Disclaimer: I eat 'meat and vegetables' ala Primal, although I don't agree with the carb curve. I like Perfect Health Diet and WAPF Lactofermentation a lot.

                          Griff's cholesterol primer
                          5,000 Cal Fat <> 5,000 Cal Carbs
                          Winterbike: What I eat every day is what other people eat to treat themselves.
                          TQP: I find for me that nutrition is much more important than what I do in the gym.
                          bloodorchid is always right

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                          • #88
                            Originally posted by JudyMac View Post
                            You have read the original hypothesis? It sounds more like you are reacting to marketing hype about the Blood Type diet.
                            Stopped after the part about Blood type O being the oldest, despite the fact that A predates the common ancestor of modern day humans, chimpanzees, & bonobos.

                            Originally posted by JudyMac
                            In the modern version, it links the behaviour of the blood agglutination to lectins as a fact, in the original it is posed as a possibility that needed study. Knowing what we now do about lectins, this seems unlikely. However the fact is that he saw the physical change, and Dr Peter Adamo Snr was a blood work specialist. Whether that change was caused by bad practice or a real food connection is worth study in my opinion.
                            And the study would support the claim that digestive systems of people of different blood types varies how?

                            Originally posted by JudyMac
                            Also of note, all those type Os? He recommended a diet that reads as pure Paleo/Primal (recommnding dumping cereals and legumes), which would benefit a higher percentage of the population than the 1% Ancel Keyes believed to be aided by HCLF. A study done using his food recommendations would benefit HFLC scientific study as well.
                            So, sociologically, one wrong theory (blood type diet) would cause less harm than another (Lipid hypothesis), so we should fund scientific studies which will fail to reinforce the former? What are you talking about?

                            I'm not a doctor or a scientist or a genius or a lawyer or a politician or anything. But I think I'm intellectually justified in agreeing with this
                            Originally posted by The Scientist
                            You are embarrassing yourself.
                            The Champagne of Beards

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                            • #89
                              We will have to agree to disagree.

                              Mine are in Biomedical Engineering and Clinical Nutrition. I can see some things that I personally would investigate, you don't.

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                              • #90
                                This discussion is like the proverbial bad penny that just keeps turning up.

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