Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Dietary Menthol as Cold Thermogenesis / Cold Adaptation Supplement?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Dietary Menthol as Cold Thermogenesis / Cold Adaptation Supplement?

    I came across this study and found it quite interesting so I thought I would share it here. I am presently at the face dunking stage of the CT protocol. I would love to think that adding menthol to my diet could help speed the CT process.

    I would love to hear feed back from more knowledgeable members.

    Activation of the cold-sensing TRPM8 channel triggers UCP1-dependent thermogenesis and prevents obesity

    Abstract

    Brown adipose tissue (BAT) is an energy-expending organ that produces heat. Expansion or activation of BAT prevents obesity and diabetes. Chronic cold exposure enhances thermogenesis in BAT through uncoupling protein 1 (UCP1) activation triggered via a β-adrenergic pathway. Here, we report that the cold-sensing transient receptor potential melastatin 8 (TRPM8) is functionally present in mouse BAT. Challenging brown adipocytes with menthol, a TRPM8 agonist, up-regulates UCP1 expression and requires protein kinase A activation. Upon mimicking long-term cold exposure with chronic dietary menthol application, menthol significantly increased the core temperatures and locomotor activity in wild-type mice; these effects were absent in both TRPM8−/− and UCP1−/− mice. Dietary obesity and glucose abnormalities were also prevented by menthol treatment. Our results reveal a previously unrecognized role for TRPM8, suggesting that stimulation of this channel mediates BAT thermogenesis, which could constitute a promising way to treat obesity.

    Link:

    Activation of the cold-sensing TRPM8 channel triggers UCP1-dependent thermogenesis and prevents obesity

    A note on safety: While menthol is GRAS for human consumption, there are limits. Please note: Ingested pure menthol can be poisonous - as little as a teaspoonful (1 gram per kilogram of body weight) can be fatal (http://www.rx.com/reference/natural/Peppermint.jhtml). The estimated acceptable daily intake is up to 200 micrograms per kilogram of body weight (Martindale, The Extra Pharmacopoeia, 1993). Dr. James Duke at the USDA Agricultural Research Center estimates that the LD50 (dose at which half the animals die) for menthol is higher than coffee, oral LD50 in rats of 192 mg/kg (CRC Handbook of Medicinal Herbs, 1987).
    Last edited by gambolputty; 03-31-2012, 09:59 AM.

  • #2
    when you're at the face dunking stage of any process, it's gone too far! no seriously, doesn't this feel stupid?

    and no, menthol will have no effect on body temp.

    Comment


    • #3
      You think it would feel stupid. Like sheep following the Quilt.

      Comment


      • #4
        Putting the rudeness aside, this kind of research seems to be much in the same vein as that which has gotten us into our current health crises. Discover how a small part of the metabolism works, to some degree, find a stimulant or antagonist for it, prescribe that agent, fuck people up with the unstudied/unwelcome/swept-under-the-carpet consequences.

        CT seems to be a real phenomenon of uncertain value. If you want to pursue it, I'd suggest exposing yourself to cold rather than risk poisoning yourself with menthol. Why take risks when the potential for gain is not clearly defined or undisputed?
        Four years Primal with influences from Jaminet & Shanahan and a focus on being anti-inflammatory. Using Primal to treat CVD and prevent stents from blocking free of drugs.

        Eat creatures nose-to-tail (animal, fowl, fish, crustacea, molluscs), a large variety of vegetables (raw, cooked and fermented, including safe starches), dairy (cheese & yoghurt), occasional fruit, cocoa, turmeric & red wine

        Comment


        • #5
          rudeness, whatever... ask yourself if dunking your face into cold water in order to lose weight feels stupid. just ask yourself. if you can't answer 'yes' honestly... houston, we have a problem.

          Comment


          • #6
            gambolputty - Sad to see your first post get shot down so violently! I say, if you can incorporate the cold into your fitness routine, you will be the better for it. Whether you are a wild-eyed follower of the magical Dr. Kruse, as they are often portrayed, or you have read Ray Cronise or Time Ferris' ideas on CT, or maybe you heard about Wim Hof ("Becoming the Iceman"), cold is a way to boost metabolism and garner long-term rewards. You found a good study with menthol and mice, there are some gems of info in this study that people should take note of. BAT and UCP-1 are the biggies. You don't need menthol to get there. Green tea and resveratrol are safer alternatives and also linked to BAT and UCP-1.

            Where I suspect this study is headed, is to find a way to speed up CT and make something marketable for growing BAT without subjecting oneself to the cold.

            I guarantee if they come out with a pill to grow BAT and increase metabolism by XX%, it will make people very rich and it will fly off the shelves.

            Keep learning and keep on with the face dunks, as dumb as they may seem. Graduate to cold showers and cold swims and report back here what you find.

            Comment


            • #7
              Amgen is working to develop a menthol like drug as we speak....So jakey is a the real joker.

              Comment


              • #8
                Thanks otzi. I was surprised that my post attracted a Troll in less than an hour. Is that the norm for this forum?

                Anyway, I have long thought that our bodies seem to be most robust when they are challenged by tough conditions. If we are perpetually conditioned for 72F, wouldn't our bodies benefit from having to endure cold?

                We certainly benefit from activities that challenge our muscles and skeleton (weight and resistance training) our vascular system (cardio, sprinting, etc) and our minds (creative activities, education, etc). Why would thermal challenges be any different?

                My post was more to investigate whether menthol might provide the same benefit for supporting CT that isolated protein supplementation offers folks doing resistance training. Not essential to achieving benefits, but magnifies the effect of training efforts.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I fell in love with the cold this Winter! How could it NOT make you tougher? There may well be a way to use menthol, I have a feeling this CT stuff is going to explode in the next few years as Dr. Oz and others jump on the bandwagon.

                  Did you notice the post above from DigitalSurgeon? That is Dr. Jack Kruse. He has a website/blog/forum and talks a lot about CT. I'm AKMan on Home | JackKruse.com - Jack Kruse

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by otzi View Post
                    I fell in love with the cold this Winter! How could it NOT make you tougher? There may well be a way to use menthol, I have a feeling this CT stuff is going to explode in the next few years as Dr. Oz and others jump on the bandwagon.

                    Did you notice the post above from DigitalSurgeon? That is Dr. Jack Kruse. He has a website/blog/forum and talks a lot about CT. I'm AKMan on Home | JackKruse.com - Jack Kruse
                    Ok...if that nutball idiot promotes it I'm pretty sure it's BUNK. He also promotes veganism, heavily... even a "Primal/Paleo" type vegan diet.

                    That said, I do enjoy my peppermint tea... but that's as far as that is going.
                    “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.”
                    ~Friedrich Nietzsche
                    And that's why I'm here eating HFLC Primal/Paleo.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      The sooner Quilt and all his admirers leave MDA the better.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I don't see any harm in a few cold showers and ice bags. Following a two month plateau, my body is suddenly dropping some weight under this treatment, a situation I'm watching with interest. Some skepticism too, but I don't lose weight easily--If it continues, I'm going to be pretty darn impressed.

                        The menthol thing is interesting, and I appreciate the postings about toxicity as well...it would be a darn shame if someone got carried away and accidentally poisoned themselves.

                        Still, it could be fun to do some moderate experimentation. I like a good herbal tea and make a mean peppermint smoothie. This just might inspire me to put my thriving mint plants to work a bit more often

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          In terms of the study, that is a mouse study, so whether there will be carryover effects to humans is anybody's guess at this point. My overall objection, however, is a philosophical one. It is my understanding that people who subscribe to the dietary principles of the paleo / primal diets do so for health reasons primarily. In addition one of the fundamental guiding principles is a return to evolutionarily consonant diets. With that in mind, ingesting large quantities of menthol does not seem to be what our ancestors evolved doing.

                          Now, your motivation may very well be strictly of the "look good naked" kind without any health focus, and it so happens that a diet that eschews industrial agriculture products generally lends itself well to that goal. But when you start mucking about with substances that are definitely foreign to your metabolism, you may be on the slippery slope of supplements and you may wind up dead from an overdose of DNP.

                          With regard to cold thermogenesis. Go for it. My n=1 experience with fasting tells me that my body definitely adjusts thermogenesis in accordance with my caloric intake, so that when I fast, my thermogenesis decreases significantly and my extremities are always cold. Accordingly, applying a thermal load to which one's body is forced to respond via non-shivering thermogenesis should consume adipose tissue. This is the kind of environmental challenge that our bodies and metabolic machinery evolved to handle. Menthol / DNP / whatever frankenchemical cocktail the next obesity researcher trying to get rich comes up with ... caveat emptor.

                          -PK
                          My blog : cogitoergoedo.com

                          Interested in Intermittent Fasting? This might help: part 1, part 2, part 3.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by gambolputty View Post
                            Anyway, I have long thought that our bodies seem to be most robust when they are challenged by tough conditions. If we are perpetually conditioned for 72F, wouldn't our bodies benefit from having to endure cold?

                            We certainly benefit from activities that challenge our muscles and skeleton (weight and resistance training) our vascular system (cardio, sprinting, etc) and our minds (creative activities, education, etc). Why would thermal challenges be any different?
                            I don't think applying a chemical to yourself is the same as enduring real cold. It's simply stimulating the same nerve endings that are triggered in conditions of cold; it's not ACTUAL coldness that you feel when menthol is applied.

                            I endured real hypothermia this weekend. I was backpacking and it began to rain. My rain poncho was shredded by the bushes on the trail in about 5 minutes. Every item of clothing I had with me was soaking wet. I hiked in this rain (and wind) for several hours until I got to the shelter of a tree and a campsite. There were two people trying and failing to build a fire. I stood around waiting for my hiking partners and once in a while I went in search of more dry kindling for the fire that never happened. I began to shiver uncontrollably. My hands were starting to not work. I had to set up my shelter without tent stakes but fortunately I know how to do that. I then got inside my tent, took off all my clothes and got inside my sleeping bag. I ate macadamia nuts and chocolate to warm up. I had no hot food I could make, not that I could have operated a stove anyway. It took another hour at least for the shivering to stop and my feet never warmed up until the following day. Today I went outside in the cold and felt very sensitive to it, a stress response hit me. I should have weighed myself. Maybe I dropped 5lbs from the experience. (sarcasm) My guess is I probably gained weight from the stress or nothing happened. In other words, my long story is to say being cold out in real nature really sucks giant donkey dicks. Not only that, it can kill you. It sounds like a really stupid theory to me.

                            Anyway, if there is any validity to cold thermogenesis, probably the best way to do it is to soak in a hot sauna and then jump into a frozen lake, then get back into the sauna. Later celebrate with some pickled herring and maybe some Pabst or vodka, depending on your locale. This sounds much more pleasant and appealing and at least has some cultural roots to it.
                            Female, 5'3", 50, Max squat: 202.5lbs. Max deadlift: 225 x 3.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I admit I haven't looked into it much, but I just don't see it. I work outdoors, and I'm definitely not leaner in the colder months. Maybe I'm missing the point, but it just doesn't seem logical, at least in the light of my experiences.
                              Durp.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X