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Fiber: The ULTIMATE Antinutrient of all

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  • Fiber: The ULTIMATE Antinutrient of all

    I am a huge fan of the book "Fiber Menace". It has helped me remove issues I was still having while being on a 'primal/paleo' diet. To be specific, hard stools, digestive issues (possibly early stage IBS), and various other things.

    Mark talks about grains and legumes. He says raw milk (if I remember correctly) and not pasteurized.

    This guy, Konstantin Monastyrsky, has a different story. Fiber is the biggest misconception in the Western diet. He proposes going to a low-fiber diet by eliminating high-fiber foods. He also says to avoid hard-to-digest proteins gluten and casein because we lack the proper enzymes. Grains and legumes have huge amounts of fiber, so he is basically saying avoid grains, legumes, and dairy (unless fermented to break down the proteins). He talks about hard water instead of tap, bottled, or purified water. He talks about how people are also on the overhydration path and do not need to drink 8 glasses every day. There's many more aspects, but I will let you read his book/website.

    The base of his work is claiming gut health is the root cause of practically everything. Everything from IBS and the autoimmune disorders that follow, to diabetes, heart disease, colon cancer, impotence, etc etc etc. It is not FAT or CARB that is killing people with these diseases nearly as much as it is FIBER. The high fiber foods, primarily involving grains, just happen to be high in carbohydrate. The secondary factors, legumes and hard-to-digest-casein-loaded dairy, are also high in carbohydrate. Once again, macronutrients has completely failed in attempt to understand our metabolism.

    When you strain through all the information, you will realize that you can still be very unhealthy while eating primal if you consume too much fiber. I don't know all his figures but; I should be no higher than mid 30s as a 21 year old, and my 54 year old uncle is supposed to be no higher than 30.

    I truly encourage you to read the book. At the very least, go through his website: gutsense.org. Read all the links on it, and your eyes will open.

  • #2
    I should also add that, through piecing together various aspects of ancient humans, this fits PERFECTLY. "Catching Fire" is another book that explains how our bodies evolved to be what they are. We evolved to have smaller digestive systems than our vegetarian ape brothers because we learned how to "pre-digest" food by cooking it. The book goes into the discovery of fire and how we became capable of cultural evolution instead of physical evolution through new communication abilities. Basically, we evolved not by eating bigass salads or fiber-rich foods. We evolved by doing what we could to eliminate fiber and other antinutrients through preparation or simply avoidance. (And of course, we became meat eaters)

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    • #3
      Sounds a lot like what Taubes covers in his Good Calories Bad Calories chapter on Fiber - which I just started reading last night. I will have to take a gander at this book.

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      • #4
        I read Fiber Menace after a nasty stay in the ER a while back. It just plain makes sense.

        I'm not a scientist or a doctor, and I don't follow anything very well, but I will say that I learned a lot and it helped me make changes that were quite obviously for the better.
        Durp.

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        • #5
          I was eating primally for 1 year already and , like you, also still had digestive issues.

          Fiber Menace was THE book that finally healed my intestines. At the time I found MDA it seemed that Mark focused heavily on vegetables and so I bought TONS, and ate them with my daily meals. The hard and inconsistent stools were very discouraging. Everything else was being healed, my lower back pain, my rheumatoid arthritis, my headaches, my poor nail and hair health, etc...but not my digestion. Sure instead of taking 3 weeks to finally take a dump, it now only took 5 or 6 days, things were slightly improved....but where are those normal daily bowel movements everyone was talking aobut!!!

          I did more research, stumbled upon Fiber Menace, stopped eating ALL fibrous veggies (kale, broccoli, asparagus, cauliflour, etc), peeled my apples and tomatos and BINGO !!!!
          Haven't looked back since.

          On a side note: excessive calcium and not enough magnesium puts the colon asleep and causes constipation symptoms (not hard stools, just slow bowel movements). I used to drink 2-3 gallons of raw goats milk a week and my colon (and my brain) were pretty much asleep the whole time...lol. Now, when I have my occassional glass of milk, I always take it with a Magnesium supplement.

          Fiber Menace saved my ass, literally.

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          • #6
            I have NO doubt that the gut is related to MANY thousands of modern diseases.. Fiber can be tough on the gut, although not as tough as gluten.

            I really suggest you all listen to this:

            http://chriskresser.com/the-healthy-...cast-episode-9

            "In this episode we discuss the gut-brain axis: the relationship between digestive health and cognitive function, memory, depression, anxiety and other mental and behavioral health issues. We cover:

            the basic physiology involved
            how inflammation in the gut affects the brain
            how decreased brain activity compromises gut function
            how to recognize the signs and symptoms of gut-brain axis dysfunction
            studies demonstrating gut-brain dysfunction and its effects on health
            dietary and lifestyle modifications to improve gut-brain function.

            I think the gut-brain axis is one of the most important and least recognized factors in human health. If you follow a good diet (Paleo, Primal, Perfect Health Diet, etc.) and youíre still experiencing gut symptoms, itís likely you have a gut-brain axis issue."
            Primal since March 2011

            Female/29 years old/5' 1"/130ish lbs

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            • #7
              I neither avoid nor do I pursue "fiber" in the food I eat. And, if you are trying to sell me something, the quickest way to get me to tune out it to cite the ridiculously high # of grams of fiber. I figure if there's that much fiber in it, it sure as hell didn't happen naturally...

              But, there's more than one kind of fiber - soluble and insoluble. I think the adding of massive amounts of fiber to food products usually goes back to it being added insoluble fiber. Here's Mark's take on things:

              Fun With Fiber: The Real Scoop | Mark's Daily Apple
              Re-focusing on the Primal Lifestyle in 2012!

              Starting: 221.0lb, 29.5% BF (1/9/2012)
              Latest: 208.9, 26.1% BF (3/19/2012)

              http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread35679.html

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              • #8
                Originally posted by wiltondeportes View Post
                "Catching Fire" is another book that explains how our bodies evolved to be what they are. We evolved to have smaller digestive systems than our vegetarian ape brothers because we learned how to "pre-digest" food by cooking it.
                I just finished this one as well. It's definitely a good primal read.
                I think I might just have to pick up a copy of Fiber Menace, but first I have to finish Man the Hunted.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by activia View Post
                  I have NO doubt that the gut is related to MANY thousands of modern diseases.. Fiber can be tough on the gut, although not as tough as gluten.
                  I'm not necessarily arguing with this. I can't say one way or another. However, gluten always comes with high doses of fiber. Gluten is only present in wheat. Eating beans or other grains or huge salads don't contain the gluten, but they contain the fiber that messes you up just as much.

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                  • #10
                    Several other grains also contain gluten like rye, barley, etc. In fact, I'd just read that there's more than one type of gluten and the type of gluten when people say gluten actually generally means gliadin and that *all* grains actually contain some form of gluten, just not gliadin.

                    Also, I thought there was actually three types of fiber.
                    Soluble
                    Insoluble
                    Resistant starch

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                    • #11
                      In addition to Kresser's talk, I listened to one of Sean Croxton's guests talk about fiber, with respect to gut health. I found both talks to be rather enlightening, because it highlight a lot of the problems associated with fiber.
                      If you have a problem with what you read: 1. Get a dictionary 2. Don't read it 3. Grow up 4. After 3, go back to 1/ or 2. -- Dennis Blue. | "I don't care about your opinion, only your analysis"- Professor Calabrese. | "Life is more important than _______" - Drew | I eat animals that eat vegetables -- Matt Millen, former NFL Linebacker. | "This country is built on sugar & shit that comes in a box marinated in gluten - abc123

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                      • #12
                        I'll have to give this a read! Very interesting stuff. I checked some of my entries in my paleo food journal because I was curious and saw that my fiber never exceeds 10grams and is mostly around 6-7 grams. I remember my CW days where it was normal to get 50g, and couldn't poop. Weird.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Dracil View Post
                          Several other grains also contain gluten like rye, barley, etc. In fact, I'd just read that there's more than one type of gluten and the type of gluten when people say gluten actually generally means gliadin and that *all* grains actually contain some form of gluten, just not gliadin.

                          Also, I thought there was actually three types of fiber.
                          Soluble
                          Insoluble
                          Resistant starch
                          Good point about gluten.

                          As far as fiber is concerned, I've never heard of resistant starch being thrown in there. However, starch can be difficult to digest and cause problems all the same.

                          I think of the gut as being a sensitive area that desires very easy to digest food. Fiber is a guaranteed bombardment if you eat any form of plant. We have a "common knowledge" in America to eat lots of this stuff that is hard to digest. Secondly, you have specific carbohydrates and proteins that are difficult. Lo and behold, they all basically fall into these categories: grains, dairy, nuts, and seeds. These are all things we know to be more difficult to prepare; therefore, they are less likely to have been elements of our ancestors' diets that we evolved with. Throw in that plants themselves have specific toxins to keep animals from eating them. Some high and some low. Grains, nuts, and seeds all have these unless they are neutralized through various processes.

                          The bottom line is to avoid all that stuff. Your gut health is PARAMOUNT to the health of your entire body. Your gut is step NUMBER ONE for processes that make you live (along with breathing).

                          I think after that, you can get into making sure you get a wide variety of vitamins, minerals, protein, fats, and carbs. That stuff comes together quite easily once you see what is good for your gut and what is not. I'm going with 9 cups of fruits/vegetables (3 colors, 3 sulfurs, 3 green leafys) and a pound of meat per day. Throw in some seafood, spices, and hard water to complete the picture.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by wiltondeportes View Post
                            The bottom line is to avoid all that stuff. Your gut health is PARAMOUNT to the health of your entire body. Your gut is step NUMBER ONE for processes that make you live (along with breathing).

                            I think after that, you can get into making sure you get a wide variety of vitamins, minerals, protein, fats, and carbs. That stuff comes together quite easily once you see what is good for your gut and what is not. I'm going with 9 cups of fruits/vegetables (3 colors, 3 sulfurs, 3 green leafys) and a pound of meat per day. Throw in some seafood, spices, and hard water to complete the picture.
                            +1
                            Primal since March 2011

                            Female/29 years old/5' 1"/130ish lbs

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by wiltondeportes View Post
                              I think of the gut as being a sensitive area that desires very easy to digest food. Fiber is a guaranteed bombardment if you eat any form of plant.
                              Question. Do you think blending vegetables into soups and smoothies is a good idea?

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