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Who's got experience with pregnenolone or proteolytic enzymes?

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  • Who's got experience with pregnenolone or proteolytic enzymes?

    I tried searching the forum archives for these, and while the names popped up here and there, I couldn't find much concrete info.

    My husband and I already tried taking the pregnenolone for a week, and I just ordered proteolytic enzymes. We've both got autoimmune disorders with some KILLER inflammation that doesn't seem to respond in the slightest to ANY diet changes.

    I'm looking for anyone with personal experience with either item. I've found really conflicting info about pregnenolone - some research says 50-100 mg is super, while other sources say no more than 1-5mg daily. What level do you use? Do you take 'hormone holidays', if so, how do you structure these? (3 days on, 4 days off, 3 weeks on, 1 week off, etc). If you've used proteolytic enzymes, what dosage did you use? How did your inflammation respond, etc...

    Also, anyone experience side effects? Are the sdie effects doage related?

  • #2
    No personal experience, but a close friend had it throw them into the deepest, darkest put of depression they could imagine at a very low dose, so be careful. I hope it helps you.
    Lifting Journal

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    • #3
      I've been taking proteolytic enzymes for the past 6-7 months, don't really know why, just thought I'd give them a try over the fall and winter period to see if they would help my osteoarthritis. Here are the ones I take:

      1. Doctor's Best, Best High Potency Serrapeptase, 120,000 SPUs, 90 Enteric Coated Veggie Caps - iHerb.com
      2. Doctor's Best, Best Nattokinase, 2,000 FUs, 90 Veggie Caps - iHerb.com
      3. Now Foods, Bromelain, 415 mg, 180 Tablets - iHerb.com

      I take 3x1 tablets of both the Nattokinase and Serrapeptase and 3x2 tablets of the Bromelain. This is a combination that is recommended in a forum I sometimes read (it is in Bulgarian, sorry ), it has been tested and some members have found it helpful, which is why they recommend such a high dosage. As for my own experience, I don't really know what to say... I started taking the enzymes at the end of August or maybe early September. At the same time I also started supplementing with fish oil and vitamin D3. Earlier I had started taking glucosamine sulfate, chondroitin sulfate, hyaluronic acid and MSM plus hydrolyzed collagen. And on October 2nd I went primal, which meant cutting down my carb consumption just a little bit (I was rather low carb already), giving up gluten grains (I eat white rice on rare occasions) and increasing my fat and protein consumption. I also changed my workouts from chronic cardio to what Mark recommends (slow movement, LHT and sprinting). The result is this fall and winter season has been a whole lot better for me in terms of knee pain and range of movement than last year's. I don't know which one of all the things I do has helped the most, probably all of them have helped some. But I am inclined to think the proteolytic enzymes have played hardly any part in the process... I don't know why I think that. I am going to be taking them for one more month starting tomorrow and then I am planning to discontinue them and see how things go for me without them.

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      • #4
        Thanks - my husband has psoriatic arthiris in his knees (and he's only 28, sheesh!) When he gets flare ups, he's literally paralyzed for months. He's been paleo for a long time, and we've tried systematically removing everything that could be a problem with no results at all. He can be fine eating nightshades, eating gluten and dairy and corn (not that he does this often) and then 6 months later eating none of that stuff he's crippled. Fish oil does nothing, glucosamine chondroitin does nothing, and he hasn't done anything remotely cardio in years.

        I'd be curious to know how you feel after discontinuing them next month - keep me posted!

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        • #5
          Hi, BestBetter! I am sorry to hear about your husband's arthritis My mom has had psoriatic arthritis for over 20 years now... She started taking the enzymes at the time I did. She has also been supplementing with vitamin D3 (5000 IU/day) and fish oil (3 g/day) and takes curcumin and boswellia too, just like I do. She went primal with me too She did feel a lot better for a couple of months afterwards. We don't know what helped in her case, I am inclined to attribute it to the "diet", she thinks it may have been the enzymes. But then at the end of January the weather here in Bulgaria got awful (we had had a mild winter before that), with very low temperatures and a lot of snow, and this lasted longer than in previous winters. Now it is suddenly quite warm, almost summer, which is also very atypical. And my mom's arthritis symptoms got worse with the weather She is generally affected by changes in weather. I do hope she gets better as the weather stabilizes...

          I wish you and your husband good luck!

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          • #6
            I started taking Dr. Wong's "Zymessence" enzyme formula several years ago. I'd been waking up with cold tingly arms and hands, meaning that the weight of my body pushing into my shoulders was cutting off circulation. After only a couple months on Zymessence, the problem was gone. My take on it is that systemic enzymes do seem to work as a roto-rooter for the circulatory system.

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            • #7
              Thanks - I will look into this brand and compare it to the one I ordered. Do you still take it every day, or was this something you took for a period of time and then stopped?

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              • #8
                I still take it. Three caps before bed.

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                • #9
                  Have you both been on a strict Auto Immune paleo diet? That is first and foremost, then move toward healing a leaky gut. Extra super strict is important with AI issues. And lab testing for hormone levels to know what you are dealing with prior to hormone supps is usually most effective way.
                  Started Whole30 December 31, 2011
                  Integrated Leptin Reset/Jack Kruse plan Jan 13, 2012
                  Starting Weight: 174.8
                  CW:160.0 lbs

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                  • #10
                    Yes, we've been done the autoimmune version of the paleo diet, with no seeming change. We're working on leaky gut issues with probiotics, broths, IF, healing fats, etc... Sometimes it's a little confusing, though, because from my understanding (or misunderstanding) you're not supposed to eat eggs on the autoimmune paleo diet, but raw eggs are your best friend on the GAPS diet. (Neither of us seem to have any obvious problems with eggs - I cut them out for about 4 months, then reintroduced them, no change).

                    Do you have any lab recommendations? I've found a lab online where you can basically request any kind of blood testing you want without a doctor's script, which I was considering because I'm wihtout health insurance at the moment).

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                    • #11
                      Unfortunately my mom won't give up dairy. I have explained it might be a good idea to do a 30-day elimination period, but she says it would just be too hard and she wouldn't be able to do it anyway. She has already given up gluten and most other grains as well as most sugar.

                      It's true we both eat a whole lot of dairy. I have been lactose intolerant at times (just to milk, not yogurt, cream or cheese), but I still get a lot of my fat along with some protein from dairy and it provides a lot of meal options for us, so it would really be hard to give that up. Dairy is a big part of Bulgarian cuisine... I suppose I would have to cut down eventually, as would my mom too probably, I am just unwilling to do it yet, so I understand why she won't either.

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                      • #12
                        Dairy is a hard one to kick - I've been off it for several years, and i still miss cream in my coffee, in those rare coffees I have these days (coconut and almond milk are adequate substitutes, but just not the same).

                        Do you find it difficult to eat paleo in Bulgaria? I was researching Bulgarian cuisine, because I was contemplating a trip there at some point in the future and I was curious to see how difficult the food issue would be (this is totally off topic, but how much English is spoken in Bulgaria? I lived in Poland for 2 months, and it would have been really difficult without my survival-level Polish).

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by BestBetter View Post
                          Yes, we've been done the autoimmune version of the paleo diet, with no seeming change. We're working on leaky gut issues with probiotics, broths, IF, healing fats, etc... Sometimes it's a little confusing, though, because from my understanding (or misunderstanding) you're not supposed to eat eggs on the autoimmune paleo diet, but raw eggs are your best friend on the GAPS diet. (Neither of us seem to have any obvious problems with eggs - I cut them out for about 4 months, then reintroduced them, no change).

                          Do you have any lab recommendations? I've found a lab online where you can basically request any kind of blood testing you want without a doctor's script, which I was considering because I'm wihtout health insurance at the moment).
                          At the thread with the Leptin Reset (huge one that I will bump up for you to look at) we talked a lot about labs. I think some have migrated over to the Jack Kruse site for more detailed hormone/lab stuff that isn't really the interest of most general MDAers. Lots of info on the LR thread here though.

                          What I can say is this: the hormone stuff is complicated because it is all interrelated. Leaky Gut help is first and foremost, and Jack Kruse blog has a how to blog on this topic. The hormone stuff...a good start would be to check DHEA, HS (or cardio) CRP, and Vitamin D. This will give you a good handle on what inflammation you have going on (HS CRP should not be over three, and as close to zero as possible) as well as DHEA being a good marker for this and other chronic issues as well. Without adequate Vit D, the whole system/cascade is not going to work optimally. But there is a ton on the thread here--like 8 months worth, and over at JK's website forums if you want to go deeper on labs and hormones. MDA is best for paleo/Primal eating questions, there is specific to the Leptin stuff and hormones etc. I did the Leptin Reset combined with AI strict, and it has worked well for me. All of this is based on a Primal/Paleo template of course.

                          http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum...2345-2174.html

                          Also wanted to add, leaky gut is very silent for many, with no overt symptoms. I am one of those. So, I would be really careful about adding back things unless you have a way to tell what is what. If there are still psoriatic symptoms, then one can be sure there is high inflammation/AI disease active, thus likely ongoing leaky gut...Horrible stuff to have to deal with, but, worth doing for sure. Always fairly safe to pump up the Vit D asap, which also could help a lot.
                          Last edited by L8F; 03-19-2012, 11:14 AM.
                          Started Whole30 December 31, 2011
                          Integrated Leptin Reset/Jack Kruse plan Jan 13, 2012
                          Starting Weight: 174.8
                          CW:160.0 lbs

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Do you find it difficult to eat paleo in Bulgaria? I was researching Bulgarian cuisine, because I was contemplating a trip there at some point in the future and I was curious to see how difficult the food issue would be

                            Oh, yes, it's quite tough actually, what with food prices and availability of more exotic items, and being regarded as a weirdo for not eating bread. One thing is, grass-fed/pastured/organic is both very difficult to obtain, extremely expensive and then you can't be sure you're actually getting the real thing and not the usual industrial kind of food, only sold at a higher price. Another thing is, coconut oil, cream and milk are quite exotic too, which means both difficult to find and expensive (and not many options to choose from). Almond milk is quite rare too. Sweet potatoes are another item that's hard to find and very, very expensive compared to white potatoes, because all sweet potatoes are imported. As for what Bulgarians eat, pork and chicken is much more common, beef is consumed rather seldom, mostly in minced meat (with pork). Of course, beef is freely available, only more expensive. Many fruit and vegetables that are available on the American market are unheard of here too - kale for example. So the food we eat most of the time is conventional pork and chicken and some fish, of course, plus the fruit and vegetables that are available (quite a few actually, just not as many options as you have in the US) plus dairy. But then we are not aiming for Paleo, or not yet, just primal.

                            That said, I consider myself quite primal, excluding my extensive consumption of dairy... I understand many here do not buy organic/grass-fed/pastured either. As for dairy... That's a different story
                            Last edited by Sol y Sombra; 03-19-2012, 11:39 AM.

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                            • #15
                              Been primal/low carb for a year. I started taking proteolytic enzymes in the last couple months. I started Wobenzyme N about a month ago for my chronic back pain (on & off, more on, since 2006). Started with 8 ea. 3x/day for the first couple days and scaled back to 4 each 3 times a day after about a week. I definitely felt relief after the first 4 days or so. Didn't take any NSAIDs and the inflammation was a fraction of what it was prior. Two weeks ago I added Doctor's Best Serrapeptase and have averaged 5 ea. 3x/day for the last two weeks. The day I started the Serrapeptase I had to start 5 days of bed. My back kills me when I don't move consistently. Sure enough it flared up badly the second day in. By day 4 of bed rest the back pain was gone and hasn't returned. I'm convinced it was the enzymes.

                              Here's the intriguing thing, I've been trying to get a new life insurance policy this year and my cholesterol has been high. I've had it checked multiple times back to February:

                              Cholesterol Test #1 (2/11/12) - Full Labwork:
                              Total 295
                              HDL 77.4
                              LDL 201
                              Trig 79

                              Cholesterol Test #2 (4/14/12) - Handheld Cholesterol Meter:
                              Total 255
                              HDL 69
                              LDL didn't register on the hand held unit. Makes sense as the Trig's were so low.
                              Trig 50

                              Cholesterol Test #3 (4/28/12) - VAP Blood Test:
                              Total 268
                              HDL 67
                              LDL 168 (LDL is 70% Type A)
                              Trigs 59

                              Cholesterol Test #4 (5/12/12) - Total Cholesterol Check Handheld Meter:
                              Total 208

                              I started taking Serrapeptase when the day of my VAP test, so two weeks and my total cholesterol dropped 60. And that includes 5 days of bed rest and limited exercise (walking only). Nice!!

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