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  • Originally posted by KA24 View Post
    I'm going to try the 35 degree or so soak, whatever I can get it above freezing. Some questions...

    1. Pre-CT meal? I generally consume a lot of fat. Eggs, MCT Oil, Coconut Oil and have even done Bulletproof Coffee.
    2. How long in for the first time? I'd say my tolerance is high, I've done 40-50 degree soaks before.
    3. Best advice to sustain temperature? Make the house as cold as possible, close all doors, how much ice for a standard tub?

    I'm going to shoot for tonight or tomorrow. Input appreciated!
    1. I've never given much thought to pre-CT eating, really, but people say a fat-heavy meal is best.
    2. For first time, I'd do like 10-15 minutes max, then warm the water up to between 50 and 70 and finish up with another 10-20 minutes. Make sure someone knows what you are doing. You don't want to get hypothermia. But if you've done 40-50 degrees already you should be fine.
    3. Not sure what you are asking. If your tap water is in the 60's, you may need a lot of ice depending on tub size. 50lbs or so.

    Let us know what you think!

    Comment


    • 50lbs of ice... haha I guess I wont be taking xtreme colds with my 5 ice cube trays haha My tap will be about all I can stand I am quite certain. I thought when I ordered my frig, it had an icemaker.

      Will save the ice for my spot CT. I think my daughter upstairs might have some ice packs in her frig.

      OH, grandson wants to go do something outside. I asked him if he wants to go to the beach (at our pond) ... so off we go. I doubt I jump in right now but it is a tempting thought. He just asked me if it was warm enough to swim. He is just now telling me that if it isnt, he will have to do what he always does, which is go to the end of the beach, and just run in. He doesnt care how cold it is haha
      65lbs gone and counting!!

      Fat 2 Fit - One Woman's Journey

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Whitefox View Post
        Thanks! I went on a research-binge after I discovered MDA, and have wanted to get more involved with this place ever since. Lovin' all the cool discussions going on - currently in college, and thinking this "being healthy" thing may become a profession. Suffice to say, I'll be around
        You probably already know this, but Google Scholar is awesome. You can sort by date, etc... If you look at BAT studies, you'll see what I mean about a change in attitude the past few years. Almost everything prior to 2009 says adults have no BAT and it's not a factor. 2010 and later studies, especially involving PET scans show we all have some BAT. I just wish there were an easy way for the normal person to determine if and how much they have. You could probably get a PhD with that as your thesis.

        The stuff you mentioned about uncoupling proteins is also of great interest to many. UCP-1 is only found in BAT while UCP-2,3,4,5 are found in skeletal muscles. Not much is known about UCP-2,3,4,5.

        There is a chemical called DNP that was found to uncouple the mitochondrial heat cycle that was used as an obesity cure in the 30's, but alas, it also blinded the user. From 2,4-Dinitrophenol - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

        "DNP was used extensively in diet pills from 1933 to 1938 after Cutting and Tainter at Stanford University made their first report on the drug's ability to greatly increase metabolic rate.[3][4] After only its first year on the market Tainter estimated that probably at least 100,000 persons had been treated with DNP in the United States, in addition to many others abroad.[5] DNP acts as a protonophore, allowing protons to leak across the inner mitochondrial membrane and thus bypass ATP synthase. This makes ATP energy production less efficient. In effect, part of the energy that is normally produced from cellular respiration is wasted as heat. The inefficiency is proportional to the dose of DNP that is taken. As the dose increases and energy production is made more inefficient, metabolic rate increases (and more fat is burned) in order to compensate for the inefficiency and meet energy demands. DNP is probably the best known agent for uncoupling oxidative phosphorylation. The production or "phosphorylation" of ATP by ATP synthase gets disconnected or "uncoupled" from oxidation. Interestingly, the factor that limits ever-increasing doses of DNP is not a lack of ATP energy production, but rather an excessive rise in body temperature due to the heat produced during uncoupling. Accordingly, DNP overdose will cause fatal hyperthermia. In light of this, it's advised that the dose be slowly titrated according to personal tolerance, which varies greatly.[6] Case reports have shown that an acute administration of 20–50 mg/kg in humans can be lethal.[7] Concerns about dangerous side-effects and rapidly developing cataracts resulted in DNP being discontinued in the United States by the end of 1938. DNP, however, continues to be used by some bodybuilders and athletes to rapidly lose body fat. Fatal overdoses are rare, but are still reported on occasion. These include cases of accidental exposure,[8] suicide,[7][9][10] and excessive intentional exposure.[9][11][12]

        Comment


        • Going to plan on it tonight. My only concern is my thermometer is broken and my new one hasn't shipped. That's why I asked about the temperature. Normally I don't care, I just throw the ice I have with my ice packs and whatever temperature it's at, that's fine. However, I want to make sure I get it low enough tonight.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by otzi View Post
            Let her Coolsculpt and you use ice packs and compare the results for us.
            ah she said it was Thermage and it is heat based. Maybe she will try the ice packs now
            65lbs gone and counting!!

            Fat 2 Fit - One Woman's Journey

            Comment


            • Originally posted by gopintos View Post
              ah she said it was Thermage and it is heat based. Maybe she will try the ice packs now
              Looks like a different kind of problem
              65lbs gone and counting!!

              Fat 2 Fit - One Woman's Journey

              Comment


              • Ok if this doesnt do anything, I am going to be so PO'd

                I was cold before I got in, so I put in a little hot water, to warm up, then went to straight cold. Well water, so around 52 (?) up to about an inch from the top. This particular tub is a claw shape type, but wooden, so pretty deep. I was reclined, so most of my body was submersed. The couple of parts that werent, I dont really want to reduce anyways.

                So anyways, was reading PB-21 so I stayed about 40 minutes. But I have no idea as to the temp. I shivered and goosebumps on top of goosebumps initially but they went away as long as I was still

                It passed quickly since I was reading. DH had to come knock on the door to check on me so I was in there for awhile. But he does that when I take hot baths also because I stay so long.

                I expected to be freezing when I got out, but I am not. But I dont have the air on and a nice breeze blowing in which has the house at 74. However I walked through the foyer and it is open to the top and I can feel that the a/c is on upstairs, so that room made me feel colder. I also did not get my hair wet so I think that helps.

                So anyways, I survived. I kept my macros for the day to 34 carbs/75 fat/94 protein and 1219 calories and 16 cups of water. Exercise wasnt anything to speak of really. I did get into the pond but not completely, so I didnt do anything I could count as exercise.

                Cant wait to try it again and see what benefits I might have... some day
                65lbs gone and counting!!

                Fat 2 Fit - One Woman's Journey

                Comment


                • Originally posted by gopintos View Post
                  So I am about 20 pounds farther behind where I thought I would be today and only 2 more months to go until Sturgis so I want to lose as much as I can by then, even though I realize I still wont be where I need to be, but I want to be way closer than I am now.
                  From my research, it seems that it takes 2-4 months to see the results from fat cell death. I keep reading that apoptosis happens within a few days of spot icing, but it takes several months for the body's macrophage cells to totally consume the dead fat cells. Since I'm fairly new to this, I can't speak from experience, so maybe MamaGrok or Otzi can chime in here about a realistic timeline. I think Otzie mentioned it took about 8 weeks to notice a decrease in waist size, right?

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by BestBetter View Post
                    From my research, it seems that it takes 2-4 months to see the results from fat cell death. I keep reading that apoptosis happens within a few days of spot icing, but it takes several months for the body's macrophage cells to totally consume the dead fat cells. Since I'm fairly new to this, I can't speak from experience, so maybe MamaGrok or Otzi can chime in here about a realistic timeline. I think Otzie mentioned it took about 8 weeks to notice a decrease in waist size, right?
                    2-4 months it is, sadly. But once it starts, it really goes. I would think daily treatments for 2-4 weeks, then lay off and see what happens. A few months later do it again.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by otzi View Post
                      I've sat in 32 degree water full of ice cubes for 45 minutes, swam in water 45 degrees, and jogged barefoot in the snow--all were easier than a cold tap-water shower! I hate cold showers. I am really impressed by people who can take cold showers, I think they are very therapeutic, I just can't take it...
                      So, I just filled up my rubbermaid storge bin with the cold water from my shower (which measures 50 degrees) and was able to submerge my lower body up to my waist. I felt a little silly, but I stayed in for 20 minutes. It was WAY easier than the showers- actually, the part of mybody that was under water was not cold or uncomfortable at all, but the top half of my body that wasn't in the water was all goosebumpy and super cold. It wish I could have fit my whole body under water, I think I would have felt less cold!

                      My hair is still NOT falling out, my BO seems to be gone. My skin is definitely tighter and better looking. I'm not sure if I'm getting cold adapted, but I'm definitely less afraid of the cold - which makes me feel pretty tough! I can't wait to be a badass walking around in the snow barefoot...or maybe suntanning in the snow, ha!

                      Comment


                      • Yeah Scholar and PubMed are like my life, sadly enough. I saw a bit of that shift in opinion on BAT as a bunch of people started referencing it with new studies (some of my friends even mentioned they had to learn about UCP for their biochem test). I think a BAT thesis would be very interesting - I hope once we can easily measure it in everyone it'd become a nice health predictor (unlike average telomere length, which Mark ruined for us with that telomere post ). And hey, in organic chemistry we used 2,4 DNP to make dyes! Sucks about the blindness thing; I'm glad i didn't inhale it haha.

                        As for my actually trying CT, I got halfway through the 30-day cold shower challenge, then finals hit and I decided I needed some extra comfort in my life. On rare occasions, I have gone swimming in Maine. I don't know how cold that water gets in the summer, but it felt like -15 fahrenheit. Maybe that's because I was used to "cold" being 65 degrees.. nah, can't be. Anyways despite my half-assed experiences with CT, I do think it's a very new-wave thing (like Paleo!) that has some solid science backing it.

                        KA24, I didn't mean to say the therapy as a whole is a bad thing, but that too much of a good thing can be, you know? Also, billions of people have never heard of Primal, or intermittent fasting, or carb refeeds, or protein's satiating/thermogenic effect, or HIIT, etc. Doing diet and exercise the right way simply has to work, barring some prior hormone imbalance, because that's how human biochemistry works; billions of people are just doing it wrong, which is not necessarily their fault, but is definitely CW's fault. Diet and exercise can get rid of plateaus without CT, but CT may make the journey easier by "uncoupling" one's reliance on stricter diet/exercise to do so.

                        Comment


                        • Oh I agree with your last paragraph. I'd venture to say that if more were exposed to that list of stuff you mentioned, including CT, we'd see an upswing in health across the board.

                          Of course, I have to assume that those on this site, specifically, those reading the CT thread, are probably wanting to at least know what it's about.

                          I ended up going about 45 minutes tonight, as close as I could get to freezing water. I'll post about it tomorrow. Not perfect, but definitely good stuff...

                          Comment


                          • OK, after I went to bed, all was well. Then my usual night sweats. Those really only started after PB so I do not think it is menopause. At least all that stuff was normal last year so it could be the start I guess, but if so the timing was another co-inky dink.

                            So anyways, I was already having these little bursts of heat/sweat, very short, like seconds kind of short, certainly less than a minute, then followed my cold chills because I have the fan on. So last night, the sweats lasted the same length but seemed more intense, as in more sweat faster. They were still short and sweet. I can't say if I had more of them, but seemed like maybe so but can't be sure.

                            I didnt weigh yesterday morning. This was because it ended up that we ate out twice Friday. And I dont think I did too awfully bad, and had planned on skipping dinner but family called and wanted to meet up yada yada. So I just decided not to weigh the morning after.

                            So yesterday, I IF till lunch. (yes I BP coffee for breakfast. I know that has it's own controversary but I enjoy it and I think it helps me so for now, I use it) I took my supplements which I was forgetting since I started skipping breakfast but I think I do better with them, so yesterday morning, that was one of my goals for June, take my supplements. I also decided to cut out yogurt (.5 cup per day), almonds (.25-.5 oz in my yogurt) & one banana per day. Will add it back in one by one so I can pin point the effects, if possible. No real activity the past few days either. Just walking around, shopping, sweeping, watering the garden and moving garden hose type stuff. Nothing exerting.

                            Okay so anyways, drum roll please......... down 1.1 since Friday morning! So if I can stay here and continue down, it will be new lows for me. (well new lows since gaining that is)

                            I am not saying any one thing did it, and not that quickly, and I understand CT is a slow progress, I am just glad to be progressing down. Although I already miss my little yogurt snack but will find something else I like if I need it. I was slightly hungry when I went to bed, which was about 4 hours after dinner, 3 hours after CT. Thought I might not make it to lunch today, and I might not but doing okay so far. So I will keep doing the CT and will try to spot CT tonight also. Summer seems like a great time to try it so there is no reason not to try.

                            Thanks for all the info in this thread. I am only up to about page 30 I think. I wish I would have paid attention from the beginning. It started about the same time I started PB, but my mind (nor body) was not ready for it yet. I do remember reading something not all that long ago but then that thread (not sure if this one or a different one) was sidetracked with skin brushing or something, and I remember trying a quick shower and it wasnt so bad, but then havent thought about it since. I dont think my mind/body was ready to accept all this info at that time. It is all a progression for me it seems.

                            Anways, thanks for all the info and feedback
                            65lbs gone and counting!!

                            Fat 2 Fit - One Woman's Journey

                            Comment


                            • I'm trying to incorporate cold exposure into my daily life rather than add another activity to it. This means having cold showers (time saving as I don't wallow as I did in hot showers) and generally wearing less or lighter clothing. Only just going in to winter now so yet to see how I handle but our winter is very mild. Neither Cronise nor Kruse have long term evidence of benefit from more extreme protocols so I'm focussing on returning to older ways of life to be more one with nature rather than swing from one extreme to another
                              Four years Primal with influences from Jaminet & Shanahan and a focus on being anti-inflammatory. Using Primal to treat CVD and prevent stents from blocking free of drugs.

                              Eat creatures nose-to-tail (animal, fowl, fish, crustacea, molluscs), a large variety of vegetables (raw, cooked and fermented, including safe starches), dairy (cheese & yoghurt), occasional fruit, cocoa, turmeric & red wine

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by peril View Post
                                I'm trying to incorporate cold exposure into my daily life rather than add another activity to it. This means having cold showers (time saving as I don't wallow as I did in hot showers) and generally wearing less or lighter clothing. Only just going in to winter now so yet to see how I handle but our winter is very mild. Neither Cronise nor Kruse have long term evidence of benefit from more extreme protocols so I'm focussing on returning to older ways of life to be more one with nature rather than swing from one extreme to another
                                I think there is great merit to what you are doing. Any temp below thermoneutral causes the body to ramp up heat production and increase calorie burn. Probably not a whole lot calorie wise, but if it's also increasing BAT stores it will eventually add up.

                                My initial reason for going to extreme cold temps was that I live in Alaska near the arctic circle and run a river boat whenever the rivers are ice-free. I was raised on stories that you can't survive more than a few minutes in our cold waters and saw first-hand many people drown and die of hypothermia.

                                I now know that with proper adaptation one can acclimate themselves to cold temperatures. The main reason for the drownings isn't the cold, it's the shock and panic. I have spent 45 minutes in water that is said to kill in 15! If my boat capsizes, I feel confident I could survive the coldest waters we have.

                                As to the health benefits of cold, I think antiinflammation is best with the coldest water possible, but it isn't needed for cold thermogenesis to occur and impart it's BAT and UCP actions.

                                Good luck and let us know how it works for you!

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