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  • Originally posted by Uncephalized View Post
    Kruse is an insane person. Almost nothing in that post above by him makes any actual sense. He is just spouting words like "primordial" and acting like that has a real prescriptive meaning.

    I could say the exact opposite of nearly every one of his points and it would make just as much sense and have just as much evidence supporting it, i.e. none whatsoever. I don't know why anyone listens to a word he says. Ugh.
    They guy obviously cannot write, and he probably is a little crazy, but there is plenty of good reason to believe that exposure to freezing cold, and things like cold water immersion, have several health benefits. Mark Sisson wrote about cold water immersion in his blog several months ago.

    I do ten minute freezing cold showers in the winter, I feel nothing short of amazing after. I will admit, many of these long freezing showers are after some tme spent in the steamroom. I rotate body parts in the shower, staying on one till it becomes too uncomfortable. Eventually, I find myself standing there with the water hittng the back of my head and neck, and feeling an amazing sensation of warmth come over me. I get a bit giddy, with a near euphoric state taking over for a few minutes. I fucking love it!!!!

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    • Originally posted by morganpmiller View Post
      They guy obviously cannot write, and he probably is a little crazy, but there is plenty of good reason to believe that exposure to freezing cold, and things like cold water immersion, have several health benefits. Mark Sisson wrote about cold water immersion in his blog several months ago.

      I do ten minute freezing cold showers in the winter, I feel nothing short of amazing after. I will admit, many of these long freezing showers are after some tme spent in the steamroom. I rotate body parts in the shower, staying on one till it becomes too uncomfortable. Eventually, I find myself standing there with the water hittng the back of my head and neck, and feeling an amazing sensation of warmth come over me. I get a bit giddy, with a near euphoric state taking over for a few minutes. I fucking love it!!!!
      Thanks for sharing. I think the problem is that Dr. Jack Kruse started talking 'cold' and that turned people off because they hate him. If Mark Sisson would say, it--they'd all be doing it! Oh, wait...he has: Cold Water Therapy | Mark's Daily Apple

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      • My pleasure Yep, that's the article. Kruse isn't crazy, he's just an eccentric dude that has some challenges expressing himself.

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        • Originally posted by morganpmiller View Post
          My pleasure Yep, that's the article. Kruse isn't crazy, he's just an eccentric dude that has some challenges expressing himself.
          I understand him just fine. You guys didn't answer my question about whether you do the CT thing all year round. It isn't cold in the summer so why continue to take cold showers or ice yourself?

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          • Originally posted by fiercehunter View Post
            I understand him just fine. You guys didn't answer my question about whether you do the CT thing all year round. It isn't cold in the summer so why continue to take cold showers or ice yourself?
            Have you ever gone camping in the mountains or even the hills in the middle of summer? It can get fairly cold. Now imagine yourself doing that with just an animal skin on. I would say you would be experiencing CT year-round, with some pretty good ambient air temperature swings.

            So I would say that I will be doing some CT this summer. In the shower, in the lake or pool, in the evening.
            Learning the intricacies of healthy eating and nourishing my body the right way.
            I am not bald, that is a Vitamin D collector. Time to Grok and Roll!
            Eased into a primal diet starting at Christmas 2011. Goal weight - 205 started: 240 pounds waist 40, now 227 pounds and waist 38 Summer 2012 - weight =215 and waist is actually still 39"
            ljbprrfmof = LJ = Little John = John

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            • Originally posted by fiercehunter View Post
              I understand him just fine. You guys didn't answer my question about whether you do the CT thing all year round. It isn't cold in the summer so why continue to take cold showers or ice yourself?
              Why not at least benefit from it 4 months out of the year? I love it, I can't deprive myself of it year round

              Hmm, are freezing cold showers available on the west coast, even So Cal, year round? I would imagine, if you are getting your water from the pacific, the cold stuff would be available all year long. I think I need to go west, for several reasons.

              If I owned my own place, I would install a water cooler to keep the showers cold.

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              • Originally posted by fiercehunter View Post
                I understand him just fine. You guys didn't answer my question about whether you do the CT thing all year round. It isn't cold in the summer so why continue to take cold showers or ice yourself?
                I live less than 100 miles from the Arctic Circle. I could probably be accused of CT'ing year-round. The river by my house rarely gets above 50 degrees, and I'm in it fairly often clearing log jams, fishing and panning for gold.

                But, that's beside the point. I think the real issue is that most people never experience Winter. Even here in Alaska, people insulate themselves from the cold. The tendency is, around October when temps plummet and snow flies, people turn into couch potatoes, eat tons of carbs/sugar/crap and gain 10-20 lbs over the next 6 months. The ancestral method would involve becoming adapted to the cold and eating a high protein/fat diet.

                So, to answer your question, fiercehunter, I would recommend not CT'ing in the summer. Enjoy the warmth, play, eat lots of green stuff, lots of fruit, and soak in that vitamin D. When winter hits and sunlight fades, that is when CT pays off. Take advantage of the free cold. Play outdoors wearing as few clothes as you can, take a dip in cold water, take cold showers, all that.

                Some might add, if you are trying to combat medical issues, then CT is still effective in the summer.

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                • I am at the point where I actually am looking forward to my cold showers. Yesterday, I started out with my water tepid. My reduction in temperature came sooner and went faster. My blood pressure is down to normal even while I reduce my meds and my fasting blood glucose is back done to normal after a weekend of bad eating. Over all, I am very pleased with CT.
                  Learning the intricacies of healthy eating and nourishing my body the right way.
                  I am not bald, that is a Vitamin D collector. Time to Grok and Roll!
                  Eased into a primal diet starting at Christmas 2011. Goal weight - 205 started: 240 pounds waist 40, now 227 pounds and waist 38 Summer 2012 - weight =215 and waist is actually still 39"
                  ljbprrfmof = LJ = Little John = John

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                  • Originally posted by ljbprrfmof View Post
                    I am at the point where I actually am looking forward to my cold showers. Yesterday, I started out with my water tepid. My reduction in temperature came sooner and went faster. My blood pressure is down to normal even while I reduce my meds and my fasting blood glucose is back done to normal after a weekend of bad eating. Over all, I am very pleased with CT.
                    Thats awesome. Im curious, how do you go about taking the shower? Do you warm up for a bit in hot water first? Do you just let the old water hit one part of your body, or do to rotate?

                    It appears the areas of exposure that give the most benefit seem to be the head and back of Tue neck, which makes perfect sense. Still as I mentioned earlier, I seem to benefit from concentrating on my shoulders and arms as well, as i rotate from one part to another.

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                    • The way I do cold showers. I have a timer set for 10 minutes. I get into the shower at luke warm and do the business of showering, about 2-4 minutes. When I am done with that, I start the timer and turn the shower as cold as I can stand a back in so the water is on the back of the neck and shoulders. As soon as I can stand the cold, I make it colder, repeat till the timmer goes off.

                      I do the showers daily, taking baths the same way, easier. Start the top with tepid water, get in and then turn the hot water off. To save money, I have three 1/2 gallon plastic milk jugs, with water fronzen in them. Once I am totally in the tub, I add the milk cartons. I stay in the tub for 45 minutes. I also take my ereader in there with me, much easier to get through 45 minutes when your mind is on something else.
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                      • I usually start out a bit warm and start turning it down as I wash. As a new CTer, I let the water hit my torso and thighs. I have not yet started the turning around. I am working to the point where I can take a bath. Due to my disability, I cannot climb out of the tub without assistance.

                        I shower first for 5 -10 minutes then CT for 20. I take a watch and hang it on an unhooked shower curtain hook.
                        Last edited by ljbprrfmof; 04-17-2012, 11:47 AM.
                        Learning the intricacies of healthy eating and nourishing my body the right way.
                        I am not bald, that is a Vitamin D collector. Time to Grok and Roll!
                        Eased into a primal diet starting at Christmas 2011. Goal weight - 205 started: 240 pounds waist 40, now 227 pounds and waist 38 Summer 2012 - weight =215 and waist is actually still 39"
                        ljbprrfmof = LJ = Little John = John

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                        • Does anyone here trying CT have Raynauds? I think my Raynauds has gotten a bit worse since going primal (~16 mos at this point). The idea that CT can reset the body's thermal expectations and increase it's ability to deal with Raynaud's sounds plausible, but on the other hand it doesn't seem unlikely that the CT process itself will trigger the onset of a Raynaud's incident. Putting up with that in the short run would be fine if there was reason to expect a longer term benefit, but it's not really clear that the same mechanisms are at work.

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                          • Originally posted by dwkdnvr View Post
                            Does anyone here trying CT have Raynauds? I think my Raynauds has gotten a bit worse since going primal (~16 mos at this point). The idea that CT can reset the body's thermal expectations and increase it's ability to deal with Raynaud's sounds plausible, but on the other hand it doesn't seem unlikely that the CT process itself will trigger the onset of a Raynaud's incident. Putting up with that in the short run would be fine if there was reason to expect a longer term benefit, but it's not really clear that the same mechanisms are at work.
                            I doubt Ct alone will cure Reynaud's. If I get in really cold water (50 deg or less) for very long (10-20 min) some of my fingers will exhibit the Reynaud's characteristics of turning white and going numb. If I do nothing, it will clear up in 1-2 hours. If I soak hands in warm water, it disappears in 5-10 minutes. I have never had purple fingers, so I must not have a bad case.

                            That said, there is ample evidence that Reynaud's is caused by an O6:O3 ratio imbalance. Upping the Omega 3's in your diet may get rid of Reynaud's as this study shows:
                            ScienceDirect.com - The American Journal of Medicine - Fish-oil dietary supplementation in patients with Raynaud's phenomenon: A double-blind, controlled, prospective study
                            Abstract
                            purpose: The ingestion of omega-3 fatty acids could benefit patients with Raynaud's phenomenon because, among other effects, these fatty acids induce a favorable vascular response to ischemia. The aim of our study was to investigate, in a double-blind, placebo-controlled manner, the effects of fish-oil fatty-acid dietary therapy in patients with rheumatic disease.

                            patients and methods: Thirty-two patients with primary or secondary Raynaud's phenomenon were randomly assigned to olive-oil placebo or fish-oil groups. Patients ingested 12 fish-oil capsules daily containing a total of 3.96 g eicosapentaenoic acid and 2.64 g docosahexaenoic acid or 12 olive-oil capsules and were evaluated at baseline and after six, 12, and 17 weeks. All patients ingested olive oil between Weeks 12 to 17. Digital systolic blood pressures and blood flow were measured at room air and water baths of 40C, 25C, 15C, and 10C using strain gauge plethysmography. Onset of Raynaud's phenomenon was timed with a stop watch and defined as plethysmographic evidence of cessation of blood flow and blood pressure in the study finger.

                            results: In the fish-oil group, the median time interval before the onset of Raynaud's phenomenon increased from 31.3 1.3 minutes baseline to 46.5 2.1 minutes at six weeks (p = 0.04). Patients with primary Raynaud's phenomenon ingesting fish oil had the greatest increase in the time interval before the onset of the condition. Five of 11 patients (45.5 percent) with primary Raynaud's phenomenon ingesting fish oil in whom the phenomenon was induced at basleine could not be induced to develop Raynaud's at the six- or 12-week visit compared with one of nine patients (11 percent) with primary Raynaud's ingesting olive oil (p = 0.05). The mean digital systolic pressures were higher in the patients with primary Raynaud's phenomenon ingesting fish oil than in patients with primary Raynaud's ingesting olive oilin the 10C water bath (+32 mm Hg, p = 0.02).

                            conclusion: We conclude that the ingestion of fish oil improves tolerance to cold exposure and delays the onset of vasospasm in patients with primary, but not secondary, Raynaud's phenomenon. These improvements are associated with significantly increased digital systolic blood pressures in cold temperatures.

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                            • my small understanding is the reynauds is a O3/O6 issue and that a High O3 diet + CT will rebuild the cells such that it is mitigated if not healed
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                              • I'm new to this but eager to learn... can someone shed light on when the best time of day to get cold is? For instance if I'm chilling my face in a sink or taking a cold shower is it best just before bed, in the morning, or when? I'm particularly interested in improving my sleep. Are there sleep benefits? Any insights regarding cold/time of day/sleep is appreciated. Thanks!

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