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  • Masai

    Not sure there is really a point to this but after reading the PB something has been bugging me.

    I grew up in Kenya, specifically in a Masai region/town. 3rd generation.

    Traditionally the Masai don't eat as much meat/fat you might think. For example, early in the morning before taking the animals out to graze it's milk and water for breakfast. The whole day is spent outdoors, fasting if you will. Meat is usually for festivals and special rare occasions.

    As a side note, now that the masai are getting closer to the small towns and adopting the "normal" diet, is when you start to see obesity and so on. It's weird seeing a fat Masai.

  • #2
    Well milk (and blood as well, right?) is still animal fat and protein, and very nutritious. I don't think it's meat per se that's necessary for good health, but rather animal-based food, whatever form it comes in (eggs, for instance). Meat is just the most common way to get animal food in the US.
    Today I will: Eat food, not poison. Plan for success, not settle for failure. Live my real life, not a virtual one. Move and grow, not sit and die.

    My Primal Journal

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    • #3
      I think my point was that maybe it was not high fat because milk is proportionate in F/C/P ratio.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by driftwood View Post
        I think my point was that maybe it was not high fat because milk is proportionate in F/C/P ratio.
        Primal isn't high fat necessarily. Mainly that we eat lots of plants and animals and no chemically processed stuff.
        My chocolatey Primal journey

        Unusual food recipes (plus chocolate) blog

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        • #5
          ok.. then I am mistaken because I was under the impression that we get most of our calories from fat...?

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          • #6
            Originally posted by driftwood View Post
            ok.. then I am mistaken because I was under the impression that we get most of our calories from fat...?
            The keyword in sakuragirl's post is necessarily. It's not as if we gorge on fat, but making use of the right fats. We can get plenty of fat from animal sources, as well as oils (coconut, olive oil, butter, etc.). Increased fat intake will seemingly be a byproduct of what we eat; and eating real food is a key, too.
            If you have a problem with what you read: 1. Get a dictionary 2. Don't read it 3. Grow up 4. After 3, go back to 1/ or 2. -- Dennis Blue. | "I don't care about your opinion, only your analysis"- Professor Calabrese. | "Life is more important than _______" - Drew | I eat animals that eat vegetables -- Matt Millen, former NFL Linebacker. | "This country is built on sugar & shit that comes in a box marinated in gluten - abc123

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            • #7
              Originally posted by driftwood View Post
              ok.. then I am mistaken because I was under the impression that we get most of our calories from fat...?
              Some/most of us do. Protein has to stay well below 50% of calories, and so the rest must be divided between fat and carbohydrates. In my understanding, fat is a much cleaner fuel source as it avoids the pitfalls of insulin and all of the metabolic issues associated with that, as well as the glycation (sugar sticking to proteins...damaging to all tissues and proposed as a major mechanism in the "normal" aging process).

              You can adjust your macros however you like, but from my research fat is a great fuel for your body.
              But as posted before, eat clean, whole, natural foods like plants and animals and you'll be way ahead of the pack.

              Active healthy people can eat a ton of sweet potatoes and be just fine, but if you have any metabolic derangement (overweight, insulin resistant, diabetes, high triglycerides, elevated blood sugar) you may want to read up on fueling your body primarily with fat until you can correct the disorder.

              Personally, I eat meat, vegetables, berries, butter/coconut oil, and a few nuts.
              I average under 50 grams of carbohydrates on a normal day, mostly from veggies and berries.

              On heavy lifting days, I may go up to 100-150 carbs through post workout meals of sweet potatoes, white rice, and coconut water.

              Generally speaking, fat is my fuel, protein is my source of raw building materials, and plants provide any missing nutrients and add antioxident protection. I use carbohydrate strictly to refill glycogen stores within the muscle.

              Plus, I think there is something to be said for keeping your system in practice when it comes to carb digestion. I can't back this up with studies, but I have a hunch that someone that eats a few sweet potatoes once or twice a week is probably more efficient at handling carbohydrate than someone that eats VLC every day.

              You'll find what works best for you, but this formula has done wonders for me for improved lipids, weight loss, strength, energy, mood, sleep and a lot more. I can tell that this is the diet my body prefers, but everyone is different.

              Hell, you could just avoid wheat and sugar and you'd be way ahead of most of the country.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by NWPrimate View Post
                Some/most of us do. Protein has to stay well below 50% of calories, and so the rest must be divided between fat and carbohydrates. In my understanding, fat is a much cleaner fuel source as it avoids the pitfalls of insulin and all of the metabolic issues associated with that, as well as the glycation (sugar sticking to proteins...damaging to all tissues and proposed as a major mechanism in the "normal" aging process).

                You can adjust your macros however you like, but from my research fat is a great fuel for your body.
                But as posted before, eat clean, whole, natural foods like plants and animals and you'll be way ahead of the pack.

                Active healthy people can eat a ton of sweet potatoes and be just fine, but if you have any metabolic derangement (overweight, insulin resistant, diabetes, high triglycerides, elevated blood sugar) you may want to read up on fueling your body primarily with fat until you can correct the disorder.

                Personally, I eat meat, vegetables, berries, butter/coconut oil, and a few nuts.
                I average under 50 grams of carbohydrates on a normal day, mostly from veggies and berries.

                On heavy lifting days, I may go up to 100-150 carbs through post workout meals of sweet potatoes, white rice, and coconut water.

                Generally speaking, fat is my fuel, protein is my source of raw building materials, and plants provide any missing nutrients and add antioxident protection. I use carbohydrate strictly to refill glycogen stores within the muscle.

                Plus, I think there is something to be said for keeping your system in practice when it comes to carb digestion. I can't back this up with studies, but I have a hunch that someone that eats a few sweet potatoes once or twice a week is probably more efficient at handling carbohydrate than someone that eats VLC every day.

                You'll find what works best for you, but this formula has done wonders for me for improved lipids, weight loss, strength, energy, mood, sleep and a lot more. I can tell that this is the diet my body prefers, but everyone is different.

                Hell, you could just avoid wheat and sugar and you'd be way ahead of most of the country.
                +1
                If you have a problem with what you read: 1. Get a dictionary 2. Don't read it 3. Grow up 4. After 3, go back to 1/ or 2. -- Dennis Blue. | "I don't care about your opinion, only your analysis"- Professor Calabrese. | "Life is more important than _______" - Drew | I eat animals that eat vegetables -- Matt Millen, former NFL Linebacker. | "This country is built on sugar & shit that comes in a box marinated in gluten - abc123

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by NWPrimate View Post
                  Some/most of us do. Protein has to stay well below 50% of calories, and so the rest must be divided between fat and carbohydrates. In my understanding, fat is a much cleaner fuel source as it avoids the pitfalls of insulin and all of the metabolic issues associated with that, as well as the glycation (sugar sticking to proteins...damaging to all tissues and proposed as a major mechanism in the "normal" aging process).

                  You can adjust your macros however you like, but from my research fat is a great fuel for your body.
                  But as posted before, eat clean, whole, natural foods like plants and animals and you'll be way ahead of the pack.

                  Active healthy people can eat a ton of sweet potatoes and be just fine, but if you have any metabolic derangement (overweight, insulin resistant, diabetes, high triglycerides, elevated blood sugar) you may want to read up on fueling your body primarily with fat until you can correct the disorder.

                  Personally, I eat meat, vegetables, berries, butter/coconut oil, and a few nuts.
                  I average under 50 grams of carbohydrates on a normal day, mostly from veggies and berries.

                  On heavy lifting days, I may go up to 100-150 carbs through post workout meals of sweet potatoes, white rice, and coconut water.

                  Generally speaking, fat is my fuel, protein is my source of raw building materials, and plants provide any missing nutrients and add antioxident protection. I use carbohydrate strictly to refill glycogen stores within the muscle.

                  Plus, I think there is something to be said for keeping your system in practice when it comes to carb digestion. I can't back this up with studies, but I have a hunch that someone that eats a few sweet potatoes once or twice a week is probably more efficient at handling carbohydrate than someone that eats VLC every day.

                  You'll find what works best for you, but this formula has done wonders for me for improved lipids, weight loss, strength, energy, mood, sleep and a lot more. I can tell that this is the diet my body prefers, but everyone is different.

                  Hell, you could just avoid wheat and sugar and you'd be way ahead of most of the country.
                  that helps. From what I read, I thought 60% of your cal should come from fat..

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by driftwood View Post
                    that helps. From what I read, I thought 60% of your cal should come from fat..
                    That may actually turn out to be the case, depending on where your carbs fall. Some days my fat intake is as low as 40% other days as high as 80%, but as Mark points out, these are percentages of calories, not volume.

                    For example,if you were to fill up your plate with greens overflowing, and then ate an egg, you would have a greater percent of your calories coming from that egg that from the entire plate of greens even though you ate way more plants than eggs.

                    Fats are much more energy dense, so it takes less of them by weight to equal the same calories.

                    Another topic I wanted to touch on for you was the topic of the macros in milk.
                    I've seen this elsewhere justified in terms of being the perfect human food and therefor adults should mimic the ratios.

                    I think this is total nonsense as cows milk is the perfect food for baby cows...fat...carbs and protein.
                    By this logic, adult cows should eat an equal amount of fat, carbs, and protein.

                    Obviously they do not and their dietary needs change over time. You can apply this to every mammal from fruit bats to tigers. I'm sure tiger's milk has carbs, but it they have no place in the adult cat's diet.

                    I think most educated people beginning this program have a psychological aversion to fat from years of conventional wisdom, which tells you that fat consumption= heart disease.

                    This has been essentially completely disproven. If you haven't looked into this very deeply it makes sense that you might balk at a diet with 60% of calories from fat. Do some more reading, stay caught up on this forum, and do some self experimentation.

                    Check out these books for more info...


                    Primal Blueprint -Mark Sisson (obviously)

                    Good Calories Bad Calories - Gary Taubes (heavy read according to some, but worthwhile. Check out Why We Get Fat if interested in a condensed version)

                    The Paleo Solution - Robb Wolf

                    Primal Body, Primal Mind - Nora Gedgaudas

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      While I'm agnostic about ratios these days, I'm certainly not scared of animal and saturated fats. Many are the days when most of my calories come from fat.
                      Meat is Prized, Wheat is Despised.

                      Real Food - The REAL staff of life

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by NWPrimate View Post
                        That may actually turn out to be the case, depending on where your carbs fall. Some days my fat intake is as low as 40% other days as high as 80%, but as Mark points out, these are percentages of calories, not volume.

                        For example,if you were to fill up your plate with greens overflowing, and then ate an egg, you would have a greater percent of your calories coming from that egg that from the entire plate of greens even though you ate way more plants than eggs.

                        Fats are much more energy dense, so it takes less of them by weight to equal the same calories.

                        Another topic I wanted to touch on for you was the topic of the macros in milk.
                        I've seen this elsewhere justified in terms of being the perfect human food and therefor adults should mimic the ratios.

                        I think this is total nonsense as cows milk is the perfect food for baby cows...fat...carbs and protein.
                        By this logic, adult cows should eat an equal amount of fat, carbs, and protein.

                        Obviously they do not and their dietary needs change over time. You can apply this to every mammal from fruit bats to tigers. I'm sure tiger's milk has carbs, but it they have no place in the adult cat's diet.

                        I think most educated people beginning this program have a psychological aversion to fat from years of conventional wisdom, which tells you that fat consumption= heart disease.

                        This has been essentially completely disproven. If you haven't looked into this very deeply it makes sense that you might balk at a diet with 60% of calories from fat. Do some more reading, stay caught up on this forum, and do some self experimentation.

                        Check out these books for more info...


                        Primal Blueprint -Mark Sisson (obviously)

                        Good Calories Bad Calories - Gary Taubes (heavy read according to some, but worthwhile. Check out Why We Get Fat if interested in a condensed version)

                        The Paleo Solution - Robb Wolf

                        Primal Body, Primal Mind - Nora Gedgaudas
                        Hi could you advise what you eat to get between 40% and 80% of your calories from fat. I'm always trying to get more fat into my diet but find it's quite difficult to do!

                        Thanks,

                        Aoife

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Soduko View Post
                          Hi could you advise what you eat to get between 40% and 80% of your calories from fat. I'm always trying to get more fat into my diet but find it's quite difficult to do!

                          Thanks,

                          Aoife
                          My diet is pretty varied, but here's each meal with three likely options.

                          Breakfast - Coffee with Butter & Heavy Cream

                          Lunch - Roasted Salmon or Grass Fed Ground Beef or a Lamb Chop or 4 Eggs and Bacon + Salad with Coconut Oil or Olive Oil

                          Dinner- Steak or Lamb Chops or Meaty Bone Broth Soup or Roast Pork or a Stir Fry + Steamed Buttered Veggies or Cooked Spinach

                          Evening Snack - 1 Cup Frozen Blueberries with Heavy Cream

                          (the "or"s above are in bold so you didn't get the impression that I eat like Henry VIII)

                          I also take 1 or 2 tablespoons of coconut oil per day for it's myriad of wonderful properties.

                          On my heavy lifting days, have a very light protein oriented breakfast or work out fasted, then 15 minutes post workout I'll have sweet potatoes or white rice with the items listed above and below.


                          These are just some of the most frequent meals I eat but obviously it's not limited to just these.

                          I try to get as much variety as possible, focusing on larger animals, but I also love seafood, rabbit, a little poultry, bacon, etc.
                          The variety on this diet is limited only by your imagination and a very short list of "do not eat" foods. I in no way feel deprived and feel I get to enjoy a much more luxurious diet than when I was eating as a standard american.

                          Some people go crazy with beautifully complex paleo recipes, but I tend to enjoy simpler foods like meat and veggies.
                          As the primary cook in the house, I do however try to mix it up so the family doesn't get bored, making primal quiches, stir fry's, different cuts of meat etc.

                          I also throw in the infrequent piece of fruit or handful of nuts as a treat, but most days I stick to the meals listed above.

                          P.S. A crock pot is a paleo-eater's best friend. You can make cheaper cuts of meat delicious with very little work. If you're on a budget, you might be able to eat grass fed beef over factory farm beef for the same price, just tougher cuts slow cooked to perfection.

                          P.S.S. Drink only water for hydration, and try to get the best quality water you can. I'm very fortunate that my tap water is clean, fluoride and chlorine free, and delicious. If it wasn't I would be searching out a local spring.
                          Last edited by NWPrimate; 03-12-2012, 04:38 PM. Reason: notes on water and slow cooker

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by NWPrimate View Post
                            Some/most of us do. Protein has to stay well below 50% of calories, and so the rest must be divided between fat and carbohydrates. In my understanding, fat is a much cleaner fuel source as it avoids the pitfalls of insulin and all of the metabolic issues associated with that, as well as the glycation (sugar sticking to proteins...damaging to all tissues and proposed as a major mechanism in the "normal" aging process).

                            You can adjust your macros however you like, but from my research fat is a great fuel for your body.
                            But as posted before, eat clean, whole, natural foods like plants and animals and you'll be way ahead of the pack.

                            Active healthy people can eat a ton of sweet potatoes and be just fine, but if you have any metabolic derangement (overweight, insulin resistant, diabetes, high triglycerides, elevated blood sugar) you may want to read up on fueling your body primarily with fat until you can correct the disorder.

                            Personally, I eat meat, vegetables, berries, butter/coconut oil, and a few nuts.
                            I average under 50 grams of carbohydrates on a normal day, mostly from veggies and berries.

                            On heavy lifting days, I may go up to 100-150 carbs through post workout meals of sweet potatoes, white rice, and coconut water.

                            Generally speaking, fat is my fuel, protein is my source of raw building materials, and plants provide any missing nutrients and add antioxident protection. I use carbohydrate strictly to refill glycogen stores within the muscle.

                            Plus, I think there is something to be said for keeping your system in practice when it comes to carb digestion. I can't back this up with studies, but I have a hunch that someone that eats a few sweet potatoes once or twice a week is probably more efficient at handling carbohydrate than someone that eats VLC every day.

                            You'll find what works best for you, but this formula has done wonders for me for improved lipids, weight loss, strength, energy, mood, sleep and a lot more. I can tell that this is the diet my body prefers, but everyone is different.

                            Hell, you could just avoid wheat and sugar and you'd be way ahead of most of the country.
                            +2

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by driftwood View Post
                              Not sure there is really a point to this but after reading the PB something has been bugging me.

                              I grew up in Kenya, specifically in a Masai region/town. 3rd generation.

                              Traditionally the Masai don't eat as much meat/fat you might think. For example, early in the morning before taking the animals out to graze it's milk and water for breakfast. The whole day is spent outdoors, fasting if you will. Meat is usually for festivals and special rare occasions.

                              As a side note, now that the masai are getting closer to the small towns and adopting the "normal" diet, is when you start to see obesity and so on. It's weird seeing a fat Masai.
                              I mentioned this to some rabid paleos at one point in my journey and they made my life so miserable for mentioning such blasphemy that I had to quit the group.
                              Female, 5'3", 50, Max squat: 202.5lbs. Max deadlift: 225 x 3.

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