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Why aren't the informed scientists demanding to be heard by the established

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  • Why aren't the informed scientists demanding to be heard by the established

    A question that has no real answer and so you may not have time for. I having been eating Primal, Paleo, PHD, whatever you want to call it for 5 months now. Feel better, look better, but I made the change because the science was solid. My degree is in nutrition and i am a small gym owner. Now, I feel the right thing to do is to educate my clientele about the truth so they can be healthier. They know I have their best interest in mind and they trust me, but this is hard for a lot of them to swallow. With the news, just this morning, saying to avoid saturated fat at all costs, some of them are thinking I may have been hit in the head by an Atkins book falling from the top shelf. I feel like Copernicus saying the Earth revolves around the sun. More meat, red meat too, no polyunsaturated oils, use cream, no grains! "But Scott, they're at the bottom of the Food Guide Pyramid!"
    You've heard all this before.

    If it's true (and I know it is), why aren't some scientists demanding to be heard so that we can get this information to the masses? People's health is at stake.
    It's just very frustrating.

    Scott Ludwig

  • #2
    same as with Copernicus.. Politics & Money...
    Primal since March 2011

    Female/29 years old/5' 1"/130ish lbs

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    • #3
      I'm so sorry that I can not provide a link but : Gary Taubes addresses this (sort of) in the author's note section of his Why We Get Fat book. And another point he made is that after an 90 minute presentation to a collection of doctors at an obesity research institute the only question he received is "Mr. Taubes, do you think we are a group of idiots?" This from doctors studying obesity for over 30 years. You are taking on 30-40 year old nutritional dogma. The contemporary doctors and other scientists writing books, posting blogs, giving lectures aren't hiding the research that supports primal, paleo, and there are a LOT of them. They are trying to get the word out. But, there's more money to be made from the lobby for pop tarts than from grass fed cattle.

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      • #4
        I doubt it's for lack of trying. At least in a free society the information is out there for anyone motivated to look for it.

        You can't force enlightenment on people who aren't receptive. The real problem in breaking down misconceptions is that summary assertions about nutrition all sound alike. Grains are healthy! and Grains are poison! can both be shouted with equal fervor. Examining the underlying evidence (or lack thereof) requires acute focus and enough training in logic and basic science to make sense of the data and conclusions, which are routinely misrepresented and distorted by interested parties. Best you can do is to find books or resources that resonate with you and present well-supported arguments for Primal--and also good counter-arguments to competing hypotheses like Campbell's The China Study--and recommend them to people who take an interest or ask for help.
        6' 2" | Age: 42 | SW: 341 | CW: 198 | GW: 180?

        “Life can only be understood backwards, but it must be lived forwards.”
        ― Søren Kierkegaard

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        • #5
          Why? It's like a wounded seal swimming with a great white. That is why.

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          • #6
            There is no funding to do the research. You need a few smaller studies to squeak through review process so you can site them as justification for your study. Tough going in the era of low fat, statin-based medicine. It takes time and scientists who are informed enough to be interested and willing to chance trashing their careers.
            Using low lectin/nightshade free primal to control autoimmune arthritis. (And lost 50 lbs along the way )

            http://www.krispin.com/lectin.html

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            • #7
              I think there is just a ton of "facts" that people have been taught over the decades, and it's really hard to just throw it all out the window and say "It's all wrong, so let's just start over from square one." That doesn't go over well.

              Throw in that recommending it can actually get you in trouble (as a medical professional) or destroy any chance at a grant or a decent appointment as a scientist, and you'd have to want it enough to bail on years of expensive education and start applying at Burger King if you spoke up in many circles.
              Durp.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by RitaRose View Post
                I think there is just a ton of "facts" that people have been taught over the decades, and it's really hard to just throw it all out the window and say "It's all wrong, so let's just start over from square one." That doesn't go over well.

                Throw in that recommending it can actually get you in trouble (as a medical professional) or destroy any chance at a grant or a decent appointment as a scientist, and you'd have to want it enough to bail on years of expensive education and start applying at Burger King if you spoke up in many circles.
                Thank you for posting this!!!! Why would any scientist destroy any chance at a grant or a decent appointment? It's just not worth it. I say, live by example. Eat paleo and show the results. But then again, that may not be enough right? I see some threads on here where people are following PB and their cholesterol is sky high. I don't know...it is frustrated indeed.

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                • #9
                  There is no funding to do the research.

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                  • #10
                    There's no shortage of scientists out there who are incapable of thinking scientifically. Just look at how many physicists are shilling for kooky new age religion.

                    And the state-capitalist "science" cartel is certainly not above killing, beating, and robbing its way to its goals. Just ask anyone who's attempted to approach cannabis as a medicine.
                    “The whole concept of a macronutrient, like that of a calorie, is determining our language game in such a way that the conversation is not making sense." - Dr. Kurt Harris

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                    • #11
                      I have to build a website for a bunch of scientists seeking money from big pharma doners and I'm thinking of hiding secret info in it so anybody who views source might find their way to the truth. Of course I won't do it, but it just bugs me to no end how many stupid websites I have to build for scientists who study how fat causes diabetes and crap like that.
                      Female, 5'3", 50, Max squat: 202.5lbs. Max deadlift: 225 x 3.

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                      • #12
                        As an allopathic primary care physician (NOT a research scientist), I definitely feel I am caught between a rock and a hard place with Primal/Paleo nutrition for my metabolic syndrome patients. While I don't worry about losing my job giving Paleo advice, I definitely raise eyebrows with my colleagues.

                        I just got off the phone with a new young diabetic patient: sugars at "goal" for diabetes (A1C<7) apo B and LDL through the roof, and BMI courting 40. I told him to drop ALL wheat and corn from his diet, drop all sugar from his diet, and try to walk 30 minutes a day (through a Spanish interpretor). Most of my colleagues would have told him to stop eating fat, increase his whole grains, and start taking medication (insulin is now in favor as first line treatment). In a month, he will sit down for three hours with our nutritionist and I just KNOW they won't tell him what I did.

                        In the end, statistically he will FAIL at dietary management -- whether SAM or Primal/Paleo or WW or whatever: virtually everyone does (I have a handful of patients who dropped up to 70# eating Paleo, but this is rare). I will give him three months to demonstrate his commitment, and then I will recommend bariatric surgery, since it is the only weight loss approach with evidence that it works long term. Sad, but true.

                        My opinion is that we should focus ALL our resources on PREVENTING me having to make these phone calls: we need to target our children to prevent them from EVER getting to this point in their lives. THAT is the holy grail.

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                        • #13
                          Agree.

                          The primary goal shouldn't be to find some amazing new way to fix people, it should be to keep people as healthy as possible so the vast majority don't need fixing in the first place.
                          Durp.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by 1949katie View Post
                            I'm so sorry that I can not provide a link but : Gary Taubes addresses this (sort of) in the author's note section of his Why We Get Fat book. And another point he made is that after an 90 minute presentation to a collection of doctors at an obesity research institute the only question he received is "Mr. Taubes, do you think we are a group of idiots?" This from doctors studying obesity for over 30 years. You are taking on 30-40 year old nutritional dogma. The contemporary doctors and other scientists writing books, posting blogs, giving lectures aren't hiding the research that supports primal, paleo, and there are a LOT of them. They are trying to get the word out. But, there's more money to be made from the lobby for pop tarts than from grass fed cattle.
                            I don't think that science necessarily points to primal or paleo being correct to be honest. There is a lot of research that support the healthiness of grains and legumes. There is also some research that suggests a high intake of saturated fat is not optimal for most people.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by JoPaleo View Post
                              Eat paleo and show the results.
                              This is called "bro science." I could find a ton of people that are in great shape that are very healthy that eat a low fat high carb diet based on grains. It doesn't mean it is the optimal diet.

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