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Diatomaceous earth - anyone have bad side effects?

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  • Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
    Silica in the lungs on a repeated basis will cause silicosis, a nasty and often fatal condition.
    I used it once and never will again, of course.

    Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk 2

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    • Originally posted by JoanieL View Post
      Zombie post!
      Burrrrraaaaaaaaaaaiiiiiiiiiinnnnnnnnnnsssssssss
      beautiful
      yeah you are

      Baby if you time travel back far enough you can avoid that work because the dust won't be there. You're too pretty to be working that hard.
      lol

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
        It's. Sand. Why. Are. You. Eating. Sand?

        smh
        Stop saying what I'm thinking!

        Sent from my Nexus 4 using Marks Daily Apple Forum mobile app

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        • I finally found some time to do some internet searching last night. There are not many, if any, studies when you Google for studies about "diatomaceous earth" that are not from people trying to sell the product. Although DE is dirt (no pun intended) cheap compared to other forms of pesticide and vitamin supplements, I still don't trust those sources. However, if you use the term "amorphous silica" and "lungs" or "ingestion", there actually are quite a few studies out there.

          Crystalline silica (non-food, pool-grade, quartz, etc.) - can cause silicosis and is linked to cancer. This stuff is a listed carcinogen! Studies show it stays in the lungs for very long periods of time, throughout the length of the studies (years), and it causes silicosis. Studies have also shown a higher percentage of people with silicosis have developed lung cancer than those without.

          Amorphous silica (Food Grade DE) - is not a carcinogen and none of the many studies have shown it to cause silicosis. It can initially build up in the lungs with prolonged exposure, but there have never been any cases of silicosis, and in almost all cases the stuff seems to dissolve into and subsequently wash out of the lung tissue in about a year after the exposure ends. This doesn't mean I want to go intentionally breathing this stuff in, but I'm no longer worried about silicosis or other long-term exposure. The studies also show that amorphous silica has better adsorption (ability to dissolve into the body) than your typical crystalline silica (like beach sand), so that's probably why people use DE as a silica supplement.

          If anyone is interested in learning more here is a good EPA article, mostly about breathing exposure, but also a minor blurb about ingestion:

          Health Effects of Inhaled Crystalline and Amorphous Silica | Environmental Assessment | US EPA

          Here is an interesting statement from EPA for silica used as a pesticide. It talks a bit about human exposure via lung and ingestion:

          http://www.epa.gov/oppsrrd1/REDs/fac...s/4081fact.pdf

          Here's a really recent study that shows amorphous silica may harm our internal intestinal cells (Yikes!), but it doesn't have the particulars about the study shown, and I would like to see grain size and what type of amorphous silica they used:

          Cellular internalization and stress response of ingested amorphous silica nanoparticles in the midgut of Drosophila melanogaster

          And here's a statement from the Scientific Panel on Dietetic Products from Europe about how safe it is to eat amorphous silica, with a good number of referenced studies:

          http://www.efsa.europa.eu/en/efsajournal/doc/60.pdf

          I think I've found most the answers I want after this research. Not terribly worried about lung exposure anymore. I think I will try it out for some home pest control. I don't know if I would eat this stuff, but I really don't see much difference between this and say eating an iron supplement or chewing up and swallowing a tums.

          Happy reading!

          Kellie

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Kellie View Post
            Here's a really recent study that shows amorphous silica may harm our internal intestinal cells (Yikes!)

            Cellular internalization and stress response of ingested amorphous silica nanoparticles in the midgut of Drosophila melanogaster
            From the above study:

            Results
            A significant increase was observed in OS endpoints in the midgut cells of exposed Drosophila, membrane destabilization and mitochondrial membrane potential loss was also observed.[OS means Oxidative Stress]

            Conclusion
            aSNPs after their internalization in the midgut cells of exposed Drosophila larvae show membrane destabilization along with increased cellular stress and cell death.

            General significance
            Ingested aSNPs show adverse effects on the cells of GI tract of the exposed organism thus their industrial use as a food-additive may raise concern to human health.
            And here's a statement from the Scientific Panel on Dietetic Products from Europe about how safe it is to eat amorphous silica, with a good number of referenced studies:

            http://www.efsa.europa.eu/en/efsajournal/doc/60.pdf
            No, it does not say it's safe. it says, "The available data are inadequate to derive a tolerable upper intake level." In other words it says, "We don't know."
            Last edited by Paleobird; 08-15-2013, 01:43 PM.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
              No, it does not say it's safe. it says, "The available data are inadequate to derive a tolerable upper intake level." In other words it says, "We don't know."
              Your statement is out of context. This report from the Scientific Panel on Dietetic Products was done to assess an upper intake level (how large amount you can safely eat). Due to the limitations of the studies using several different forms of silicates, and the fact that the few studies of amorphous silicate have not shown adverse effects, they concluded they cannot assess an upper level.

              You do realize the test showing cell death was conducted on microscopic larvae? I wouldn't tout that as proof of your claim. Farmers have been feeding this stuff to livestock for decades as a natural de-wormer with no noted ill effects.

              Kellie

              Comment


              • Right, because we all know larvae's guts are equivalent to ours. Ok, makes sense now.

                I've recommended it to numerous friends & clients over the years. At worst, a few people said they felt no different.

                I've used DE on & off for about 18 years, sometimes intensely after traveling & returning from extensive long term trips to 3rd world countries from the 1980s-late '90s. Numerous times, I've had fairly SERIOUS diverse parasitic infestations, DE plus some other supplements & herbs, all together, solved my issues.
                "Science is not belief but the will to find out." ~ Anonymous
                "Culture of the mind must be subservient to the heart." ~ Gandhi
                "The flogging will continue until morale improves." ~ Unknown

                Comment


                • Thought I'd share, so I can find this again when I have time to read it a bit more thoroughly.

                  260. Silicon dioxide and certain silicates (WHO Food Additives Series 5)

                  This is a link to an article about several studies that were conducted several decades ago on silica ingestion. After just a preliminary look, the studies seem to show that when the body doesn't need the silica dissolved through ingestion, the body expels it pretty darn quickly. Studies were conducted on several different animals () and were administered the silica by both injection and ingestion.

                  No toxicity was found, but I did note that one part of the article stated that humans would die if they ate 15g/kg of the stuff. For me, at about 140 lbs, that would be more than 200 tablespoons. Good to know.

                  Here's another study on human intestine and silica (nano silica). They too report no toxicity.
                  http://ihcp.jrc.ec.europa.eu/our_act...osafe_2012.pdf

                  Maybe people who have silica deficiency are the ones that see the energy boost, nail and hair growth, etc., but people who are not silica deficient don't see any effects. The fact that the body seems to expel excess silica quickly may account for why people get regular on the stuff. And the test done on the microbe which killed its cells shows how DE can take out parasites in our guts. None of these studies explain the bad side effects experienced by some in this forum. None of these studies have reported any of these kinds of effects on the animal studies that I have seen.

                  Kellie

                  Comment


                  • Thanks Kellie! I've offered personal anecdotal & hear-say testimonial on this thread but no real science. Others have attempted to provide rational science on this subject, but it's like with a witch hunt w/ some people in this thread: nothing can convince them to consider the possibility that, gosh, they may be wrong!

                    And you've provided strong, clear multiple studies showing the safety of DE ie silica for humans. Imo, these studies you found and cited were well done. There's no major corporations out there trying to promote or discredit DE, as it's such a niche product.

                    Yes, there would be a toxic/fatal effect if I were to consume approximately 220 TBS at a time, according to the 15g/kg ratio provided by that studies toxicology results. The most I've ever taken in personally, or recommended to anyone, was 1 TBS on an empty stomach, max of 2 TBS a day, divided into 2 doses, AM & PM .

                    Comically, I handkerchief my face & hold my breath when I scoop it out of it's bag & into a mason jar. I let the dust settle for a minute before I mix water into it
                    "Science is not belief but the will to find out." ~ Anonymous
                    "Culture of the mind must be subservient to the heart." ~ Gandhi
                    "The flogging will continue until morale improves." ~ Unknown

                    Comment


                    • I just read MDA online yest and ordered the book at midnite before going to bed It will take a week to get here and I need some advice in the meantime. I really want to get this right. Not sure Im in the right section of posting even?
                      I had three fried eggs and tea w honey for breakfast, a smoothie for lunch made w pineapple, mango and kale and spinach and ginger and dinner will be salad. BUT my caloire counter says im at 190 for carbs(too high) and too much fat? (one oz of nuts in the salad I think) pls advise. And if you have a few meal ideas for the next week till the book gets it I would love it.
                      I really want to get this right. Thank you

                      Comment


                      • Welcome Tracey!

                        Right section, Primal Blueprint Nutrition, but wrong thread, imo, as this is not read by many folks on here, it's a narrow subject, not really technically primal, DE...

                        Try any or several of these:

                        Just getting started... | Mark's Daily Apple Health and Fitness Forum ...
                        I have been playing around with primal foods for about two years but have not really committed. I keep trying to get started but then am derailed ...
                        www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread85638.html

                        Getting started... | Mark's Daily Apple Health and Fitness Forum page
                        Hi everyone! I've been dabbling in research about Paleo for about a month or two now, browsing forums, and getting informed about things.
                        www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread78009.html

                        Getting started going primal | Mark's Daily Apple Health and Fitness ...
                        I want to go primal but i don't know where to turn...i've been reading blogs and I have been on the forums here but i'm not sure where to start..
                        www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread19230.html

                        Rookie from NH Getting Started on PB! | Mark's Daily Apple Health ...
                        Hi All, I found out about Mark's site and his work through another forum I belong to when a thread started about 'getting healthy for the new ...
                        www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread74514.html
                        "Science is not belief but the will to find out." ~ Anonymous
                        "Culture of the mind must be subservient to the heart." ~ Gandhi
                        "The flogging will continue until morale improves." ~ Unknown

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Tracey View Post
                          I just read MDA online yest and ordered the book at midnite before going to bed It will take a week to get here and I need some advice in the meantime. I really want to get this right. Not sure Im in the right section of posting even?
                          I had three fried eggs and tea w honey for breakfast, a smoothie for lunch made w pineapple, mango and kale and spinach and ginger and dinner will be salad. BUT my caloire counter says im at 190 for carbs(too high) and too much fat? (one oz of nuts in the salad I think) pls advise. And if you have a few meal ideas for the next week till the book gets it I would love it.
                          I really want to get this right. Thank you
                          Well, just off the bat, without actually knowing how much honey, pineapple or mango &/or what went into your salad/how much salad, I'd say yeah 190 carbs may be accurate. Are you open to eating fish, seafood, meat, poultry, organs? There's that, unless you want to be vegetarian primal ie no meat/seafood(it can be done, one of Mark's kids is/was, his daughter I think).

                          I don't recommend it, unless you are going to do lots of blending/juicing/detoxing 1st which is not technically PB, but to each his own.

                          Wait til you get your PB book, read it, highlight it, but don't stress out at all between now & when you get your book. All will be well...

                          Search for "recipes" on the search tool bar, top right of every screen on MDA you're on... There's also free PDF downloads, for recipes, on here as well....
                          "Science is not belief but the will to find out." ~ Anonymous
                          "Culture of the mind must be subservient to the heart." ~ Gandhi
                          "The flogging will continue until morale improves." ~ Unknown

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Kellie View Post
                            I finally found some time to do some internet searching last night.
                            I just joined to say thank you for sharing the results of your findings. I just started researching DE for many of the same reasons and came across this thread. I am going to use it for pest control. I may try it myself too - still reading up on it.

                            Comment


                            • Sounds like you're reaching...

                              Dear Paleo;

                              There are actually two types of DE. DE that is used for pesticides and such and FOOD GRADE DE. Food Grade DE is just that, FOOD GRADE. There are no "Shards" to "Tear up your guts."

                              I have read this entire thread, as well as others and I've found one repeated constant that rings true. Paleo REFUSES to allow herself to learn. I honestly don't mean to bring politics into this matter but I truly would like to know; Paleo, are you a right-wing Republican? Because these are the types of people that I've found whom strongly detest FACTS. The interjection of "facts" into a debate seems to confuse and complicate their ability to promote their false, misguided or uneducated message. Even when they realize that they have just received a "Scientific / Factual and intellectual beat down" these folks stick to their guns and tend to repetitiously regurgitate some tag line or buzz word. (IE: SAND!! it's SAND!!)

                              I wonder if you've ever muttered the words, "Hmm, I guess I was wrong." or "Wow, I didn't know that..." or heaven forbid, the elusive, ego-diminishing, "YOU WERE RIGHT!" during a topical debate.

                              Comment


                              • DE being used to treat children infected with E. coli:

                                "E. coli are our friends: living in our intestines, they help digest our food and supply us with vitamin K. But there is an ugly strain of E. coli,that kills more than 200 people each year in the United States. These bacteria normally reside in the intestines of cattle; they reach humans through contaminated beef - as in the case of the outbreak that killed four people in Seattle in January 1993. (The source of infection was traced to a single fast-food chain.) The bacteria seeps through the damaged lining into the bloodstream. Kidney failute occurs within four to five days. Antibiotics are ineffective: they work by rupturing the bacteria, which only accelerate the spread of the toxin.

                                The University of Alberta has devised a way to stop the toxin in its tracks. They have created a decoy that holds off the toxin until the body can build up anti bodies to the bacteria, which takes about a week. Armstrong's decoys are made of sugar molecules. Each decoy is joined to a bit of diatomaceous earth porous sand that consists of the tiny skeletons of diatoms, which are a type of plankton. When the patient drinks the gritty fluid containing the decoys, the toxin molecules bind to the decoys and are then excreted along with the indigestible (diatomaceous) sand particles.

                                The decoy has already been tested on healthy volunteers with no ill effects. In clinical trials now under way in Canada, it is being used to treat children infected with toxic E. coli. (Children are particularly vulnerable to the toxin, apparently because their kidney cells carry more receptors for it than do the kidney cells of adults.)

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