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Sugar Isn't The Problem. You're The Problem.

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  • I'm curious about many people saying that a higher carb/lower fat diet would result in higher cholesterol. It seems like that logic stems from research with people eating the standard diet of processed carbs, grains, etc. But in the case of whole foods, is this really true?

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    • Originally posted by @lex View Post
      Indeed.

      It's easy to find examples of people that have eventually ruined their health in the single-minded pursuit of optimal or "perfect" health. It's amazing how someone can blissfully eat SAD for 10 years, switch to primal or paleo, then act like eating a banana is the equivalent of putting a loaded gun in their mouth. I think we could all benefit from tossing out our dogma and not bickering over things that amount to minor differences in the long run. We all eat real food, and we've all made steps towards being healthier and achieving our goals, so does it really matter if one of us eats more or less carbs than the other?
      Beautifully put!

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      • Then again there is also plenty of reasons you could be born with carb intolerance, among other subclinical issues. Even if you prescribe to the NAD's hypothesis specifically, which is what OP refers to, you could easily see how the mother being continuously exposed to these NAD's effects the organism still growing in her.

        If you have been living in a pristine primal environment for several generations maybe you don't have to consider these issues though.

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        • 53 pages read... finally! Really really great thread. There's nothing wrong with getting plenty of calories from good starch sources instead of all fat. I've been getting more potatoes and bananas and other "sugars" in my diet and feel great and still losing weight.


          I think in the next few years you will see the entire Paleo/Primal community start to head this way and with that become more of a "whole foods" diet than a low carb diet. Its about time.

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          • Originally posted by 2strokenut View Post
            53 pages read... finally! Really really great thread. There's nothing wrong with getting plenty of calories from good starch sources instead of all fat. I've been getting more potatoes and bananas and other "sugars" in my diet and feel great and still losing weight.


            I think in the next few years you will see the entire Paleo/Primal community start to head this way and with that become more of a "whole foods" diet than a low carb diet. Its about time.
            Hear hear. Unlike starchy wholefoods, fat doesn't come with electrolytes. I prefer to eat fat within a wholefood, and to use it in moderation for frying/roasting vegetables to improve their taste and the absorption of their fat-soluble vitamins. I do not see the point of consuming fat as empty calories.
            F 5 ft 3. HW: 196 lbs. Primal SW (May 2011): 182 lbs (42% BF)... W June '12: 160 lbs (29% BF) (UK size 12, US size 8). GW: ~24% BF - have ditched the scales til I fit into a pair of UK size 10 bootcut jeans. Currently aligning towards 'The Perfect Health Diet' having swapped some fat for potatoes.

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            • Originally posted by paleo-bunny View Post
              Hear hear. Unlike starchy wholefoods, fat doesn't come with electrolytes. I prefer to eat fat within a wholefood, and to use it in moderation for frying/roasting vegetables to improve their taste and the absorption of their fat-soluble vitamins. I do not see the point of consuming fat as empty calories.
              Whole-food fat, and even minimally processed oils (think quality olive oil or coconut oil or butter) are far from being "empty" calories. They tend to contain nutritionally-relevant compounds like fat-soluble vitamins and minerals.

              But of course you're still better off if you vary your diet, because any individual food will never contain EVERYthing you need for optimal health.
              Today I will: Eat food, not poison. Plan for success, not settle for failure. Live my real life, not a virtual one. Move and grow, not sit and die.

              My Primal Journal

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              • Originally posted by Uncephalized View Post
                Whole-food fat, and even minimally processed oils (think quality olive oil or coconut oil or butter) are far from being "empty" calories. They tend to contain nutritionally-relevant compounds like fat-soluble vitamins and minerals.

                But of course you're still better off if you vary your diet, because any individual food will never contain EVERYthing you need for optimal health.
                +1 Yeah, I was gonna write the same thing but figured whatever.....but "fats don't come with electrolytes"......file that under non-issue also while your at it.
                Last edited by Neckhammer; 04-01-2012, 04:26 PM.

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                • Electrolytes are an issue for some of us. Think "manual labor outside in direct sunlight in 115F heat during monsoon season" kind of sweating, all day long, 5 or 6 days a week. I just chug some coconut water along with the water and I'm fine. But I know the carbs in it freak some people out. Seems to be fine for me. But I'm a bit of an outlier when it comes to a lot of things.

                  I honestly think we're all going to be a little different when it comes to how our bodies handle sugar (genetics, past nutrition, activity level, nutrient level), and I also think the form of the sugar makes a difference too.
                  Durp.

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                  • Originally posted by RitaRose View Post
                    Electrolytes are an issue for some of us. Think "manual labor outside in direct sunlight in 115F heat during monsoon season" kind of sweating, all day long, 5 or 6 days a week. .
                    I suppose that could be an issue if that is your job ....but "electrolytes" in your average day to day....hey man just drink some mineral water and get on with it.

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                    • Funny thing is I could agree with OP if we add some adendums.....such as no infiltration of your gene pool by neolithic agents or compulsive non organic carbohydrate product for several generations. That actually may take you there. Fact is low carb can get you damn near there when your broken. Thats who I usually talk to....those who are broken. I don't know but a few healthy people in my immediate vicinity out of thousands. There are many that are walking around "technically healthy" which just means nobody has given them a diagnosis yet. 99% of America is sick. Thats undercutting the facts. So talking about what is good for a "normal healthy human" and how we should set up Primal as such is sort of irrelevant to reality. Low carb paleo/primal is a great therapeutic agent for that 99+%. When I say low carb I'm not even really disagreeing with OP I'm saying like 100g/day. Maybe less in special circumstances or for the first week or two. My point is if your trying to open this community and make it more inclusive....then have the right motives. Do it to heal first.

                      If your writing a post to the 1% that already has done the low carb bit and is healed or are athletes not yet broken then recognize you are speaking to a minority population.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Neckhammer View Post
                        Funny thing is I could agree with OP if we add some adendums.....such as no infiltration of your gene pool by neolithic agents or compulsive non organic carbohydrate product for several generations. That actually may take you there. Fact is low carb can get you damn near there when your broken. Thats who I usually talk to....those who are broken. I don't know but a few healthy people in my immediate vicinity out of thousands. There are many that are walking around "technically healthy" which just means nobody has given them a diagnosis yet. 99% of America is sick. Thats undercutting the facts. So talking about what is good for a "normal healthy human" and how we should set up Primal as such is sort of irrelevant to reality. Low carb paleo/primal is a great therapeutic agent for that 99+%. When I say low carb I'm not even really disagreeing with OP I'm saying like 100g/day. Maybe less in special circumstances or for the first week or two. My point is if your trying to open this community and make it more inclusive....then have the right motives. Do it to heal first.

                        If your writing a post to the 1% that already has done the low carb bit and is healed or are athletes not yet broken then recognize you are speaking to a minority population.
                        /end thread.
                        If you have a problem with what you read: 1. Get a dictionary 2. Don't read it 3. Grow up 4. After 3, go back to 1/ or 2. -- Dennis Blue. | "I don't care about your opinion, only your analysis"- Professor Calabrese. | "Life is more important than _______" - Drew | I eat animals that eat vegetables -- Matt Millen, former NFL Linebacker. | "This country is built on sugar & shit that comes in a box marinated in gluten - abc123

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                        • FYI, tonight's 60 minutes segment on "Is Sugar Toxic" featuring Robert Lustig:

                          Is sugar toxic? - 60 Minutes - CBS News

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                          • Originally posted by Uncephalized View Post
                            Whole-food fat, and even minimally processed oils (think quality olive oil or coconut oil or butter) are far from being "empty" calories. They tend to contain nutritionally-relevant compounds like fat-soluble vitamins and minerals.

                            But of course you're still better off if you vary your diet, because any individual food will never contain EVERYthing you need for optimal health.
                            That's totally incorrect. Butter, olive oil and coconut have virtually zero electrolytes (discounting any sodium in salted butter).

                            Here's proof:


                            Nutrition Facts and Analysis for Oil, olive, salad or cooking

                            Nutrition Facts and Analysis for Butter, salted

                            Nutrition Facts and Analysis for Vegetable oil, coconut

                            Coconut oil is virtually devoid of vitamins, Olive oil has significant vitamin E and K (as vitamin K deficiency is rare that's not particularly valuable) and butter has significant vitamin A, and that's about it. Nobody eats these foods for their micronutrient content.

                            My point is completely valid.

                            Originally posted by Neckhammer View Post
                            +1 Yeah, I was gonna write the same thing but figured whatever.....but "fats don't come with electrolytes"......file that under non-issue also while your at it.
                            See above. File that under 'potential issue' while you're at it. Magnesium, calcium and potassium deficiencies are a common problem for people eating very low carb, high-fat diets. Some of us can join the dots.
                            Last edited by paleo-bunny; 04-02-2012, 04:03 AM. Reason: clarification
                            F 5 ft 3. HW: 196 lbs. Primal SW (May 2011): 182 lbs (42% BF)... W June '12: 160 lbs (29% BF) (UK size 12, US size 8). GW: ~24% BF - have ditched the scales til I fit into a pair of UK size 10 bootcut jeans. Currently aligning towards 'The Perfect Health Diet' having swapped some fat for potatoes.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by paleo-bunny View Post
                              See above. File that under 'potential issue' while you're at it. Magnesium, calcium and potassium deficiencies are a common problem for people eating very low carb, high-fat diets. Some of us can join the dots.
                              If you dont utilize bone broth in your cooking, and never salt any of your food, then sure there could be a potential issue. I would definitely recommend that those who eat food...not just low carb....eat the variety of foods like sardines with bone in, bone broth, sea vegetables and so on that get you all these. Heck throw in an epsom salt bath here and there while your at it.

                              So I should have said "issue easily solved" if you are eating a variety of traditionally prepared foods....but I get your point.

                              However, I don't see where uncephalized said anything about electrolyte? Just said that fat is far from empty calories, and your link tends to just prove that point. A, D, E, K....all in abundance and all quite relevant to health. So yes, far from empty calories....unlike granulated sugar which IS empty.
                              Last edited by Neckhammer; 04-02-2012, 06:42 AM.

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                              • Eating Choco's way is still way way way better than the SAD. In fact, it may make it easier for people to transition to Primal by not completely cutting out carb sources like whole fruit and starches. By simply cutting out grains, refined sugars, etc., that person is already very well on their way to healthy eating.
                                "Carbs are the victim, not the crime" - ChocoTaco

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