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Wilting Away on PB, Help!

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  • Wilting Away on PB, Help!

    Hi all,
    I fight MMA and decided to do something a little different this year and in particular for my fast approaching fight scheduled for 5 weeks time. And I found a full on lifestyle! I've been on the PB diet for about 4 weeks now and although I can't faulter it on weight loss, my original goal was purely fat loss while maintaining lean muscle.

    When I started I weighed 89kg (I'm 6'1") and a week a go with my training intensity heavily increasing I was 83kg, so I decided to cycle in some sweet potato and quinoa to my already excessive diet, as I am fighting at 83kg and at that time had 6 weeks of hard training ahead of me. Therefore as you may have guessed it is very bad I am at 81.5kg looking gaunt in the face with 5 weeks until fight night where I would ideally want to be around 86-87 the day before weigh in. I agree that leaving out all common carbs may have been a mistake with unavoidable high intensity training (not the PB recommendation but unavoidable).

    So all I'm really wanting to know (cutting down training is not an option) is what extra carbs can I afford to eat in a day. Or what extra supplements should I take? Below is exactly what I eat almost every day, I need to put on weight! Although 'ripped' I feel I am starting to look unhealthy and so do others, so I don't feel it is my genetically accurate to keep dropping weight.

    Breakfast - Thick shake with water, 30g Whey protein, 4 whole eggs, cup blueberries, banana, around 100g of a mix of walnuts and almonds, 30g Sunflower seeds and Linseeds.

    2nd Meal - big steak OR large portion of Chicken skin on OR Tuna with salad/veges, olive oil, balsamic vinegar, almonds, 3 boiled eggs, a sweet potatao and about 100g of quinoa.

    3rd Meal - same as 2nd.

    4th Meal - Same thick shake as breakfast.

    Last Meal - dinner. Large serving of meat and buttery vegetables.

    In weekends instead of my shake for breakfast I'll have 4 pieces of bacon, a 4 egg omelette, mushrooms and an avacado on the side.

    Post Training I have an extra protein shake. I also take multi vitamins and glucosamine and as you can see I have my 12 eggs, if not more a day!

    Sorry for the essay but please help!

  • #2
    Hi. White rice is very widely tolerated - it's a very neutral safe source of starch. I would add some white rice or white rice noodles to your post-workout meal, and your evening meal. Primal is not a low carb diet, especially for those working out. It can be a problem is getting enough safe starch though. Also you could add white potatoes (as long as you are not intolerant to nightshades). I think these are preferable to quinoa which has more anti-nutrients. It's important to eat significant starch in the last meal of the day as that will help muscle recovery and anabolic processes while you sleep. Also make that a fairly low fat meal to maximise muscle gain.

    If you tolerate dairy, try replacing some meat or egg with cheese to help you build muscle (calcium and vitamin D good for muscle building), or increase your intake of whey powder.

    I've also noticed you have quite an extremely high omega 6 intake from all those nuts and seeds, which is probably compromising your general health - could you try replacing them with coconut cream/oil, butter or ghee, plus more whey in your shakes? You should keep your nut/seed intake to <50 g a day.
    Last edited by paleo-bunny; 01-28-2012, 04:23 AM.
    F 5 ft 3. HW: 196 lbs. Primal SW (May 2011): 182 lbs (42% BF)... W June '12: 160 lbs (29% BF) (UK size 12, US size 8). GW: ~24% BF - have ditched the scales til I fit into a pair of UK size 10 bootcut jeans. Currently aligning towards 'The Perfect Health Diet' having swapped some fat for potatoes.

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    • #3
      Also, it looks like you are eating too much protein (rabbit starvation). Has your intake gone up since you went primal?
      F 5 ft 3. HW: 196 lbs. Primal SW (May 2011): 182 lbs (42% BF)... W June '12: 160 lbs (29% BF) (UK size 12, US size 8). GW: ~24% BF - have ditched the scales til I fit into a pair of UK size 10 bootcut jeans. Currently aligning towards 'The Perfect Health Diet' having swapped some fat for potatoes.

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      • #4
        Honestly, people on here call me a troll, but you should be eating LOTS of carbs when you work out. Your body isn't going to notice the difference between eating pasta, bread, rice or sweet potatoes as long as you are eating enough fruits and vegetables. Primal is not ideal for people training hard for sports and pretty much any sports nutritionist will agree.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by jimhensen View Post
          Honestly, people on here call me a troll, but you should be eating LOTS of carbs when you work out. Your body isn't going to notice the difference between eating pasta, bread, rice or sweet potatoes as long as you are eating enough fruits and vegetables. Primal is not ideal for people training hard for sports and pretty much any sports nutritionist will agree.
          I concede that sometimes you're right. I agree with you that most sports people will tolerate white pasta and properly fermented white bread if not gluten intolerant, and white rice. Still I believe they should avoid wholegrains due to the anti-nutrients.

          There seems to be a lot of confusion that primal has to be low carb (<50 g a day). I think Mark makes it pretty clear that it's most suitable for those who are sedentary or insulin resistant, or are very obese and have a lot of weight to lose. I've managed to get my body fat down from about 39% to 29% in 6 months eating 150-200 g carb a day (mostly starch) and being very active. I think primal is still good for people training hard for sports as long as they make the necessary adjustments. The nutritionist who introduced me to paleo concepts has used a pretty much paleo diet to improve the performance of some professional athletes.
          Last edited by paleo-bunny; 01-28-2012, 06:24 AM. Reason: clarification
          F 5 ft 3. HW: 196 lbs. Primal SW (May 2011): 182 lbs (42% BF)... W June '12: 160 lbs (29% BF) (UK size 12, US size 8). GW: ~24% BF - have ditched the scales til I fit into a pair of UK size 10 bootcut jeans. Currently aligning towards 'The Perfect Health Diet' having swapped some fat for potatoes.

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          • #6
            Do you feel strong? I actually think you're getting plenty of carbs if you're having a sweet potato or quinoa at meals 2 & 3, and a banana and blueberries at 1 & 4. And you're getting plenty of protein. I'd vote for adding more fat. Do you like butter? I fight BJJ and MMA and I snack on butter to keep from getting so lean that I don't feel strong.

            It sounds to me like you're overtraining though. Even though I think weight is 80% a function of diet and 20% a function of exercise (oversimplification - these are NOT independent variables), you can take training so far that your body can't replenish itself regardless of your diet.

            Can you give us a rough idea of your training schedule each day? If you'd doing several intense rounds of sparring (kickboxing), and extended periods of grappling, 5 more weeks is going to turn you into a weak mess.

            Frankie Edgar fights at 155 and walks around below 160. There's no reason you can't be great at/below your weight. Make sure you feel strong. And add a half pound of butter to that diet. I think you have plenty of carbs and plenty of protein and you're missing fat!
            The Champagne of Beards

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            • #7
              definitely load up on the carbs with your workouts if you want. they will help your muscles store more glycogen for increased size, and your body store more water for increased weight. but, you can get the same amount of carbs while still avoiding grains like pasta and bread...go with potatoes, rice, squash, fruit. serious athletes certainly can eat a primal diet while training, and the reason you know that it's true is because people still had to run and fight for their lives waaaayyyyy before bread came into the picture. avoiding grains is not about avoiding carbs, and anyone who thinks so needs to read up a little. you're avoiding the toxins and omega ratios that come from grains, and vegetable oil, and beans, and etc.

              also, are you sure you're losing lean muscle mass? i get that you want to weight more for the fight, but it sounds like all you're losing is body fat and retained water. are you still as strong, fast and powerful as you were four weeks ago?
              http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread60178.html

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              • #8
                I'd read these: Mixed Martial Arts Fighter Goes Primal | Mark&#039;s Daily Apple, http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread39439.html

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                • #9
                  Frank Mir eats paleo as well.

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                  • #10
                    I think it looks pretty decent overall, and agree about getting more carbohydrates.

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                    • #11
                      And really, check out Body By Science. It seems to lay out a pretty good explanation of what overtraining is and how it happens. You might do better with fewer high-intensity workouts each week, and then a couple lighter ones for skills.

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                      • #12
                        I agree with primalrob...lots of healthy clean carb choices that still allow you to avoid wheat and other grains.
                        Eating primal is not a diet, it is a way of life.
                        PS
                        Don't forget to play!

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                        • #13
                          I would nix the sweet potato and quinoa on non-training days and go way bigger on carbs on training days. 300 grams minimum. If you wanted to drop bodyfat while maintaining/gaining muscle you might want to check out lean-gains. I'm using Martin's approach to shed fat/maintain muscle and it works great. I eat 400 grams of carbs on training days and I am dropping bodyfat and getting stronger.
                          "The problem with quoting someone on the Internet is, you never know if it's legit" - Abraham Lincoln

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                          • #14
                            EAT MOAR FAT!

                            When I was still lifting weights, I found that as long as I had plenty of fat in my meals, I could go at it FOREVAH at the gym. Fat is awesome because it takes longer to burn off.
                            A Post-Primal PrimalPat

                            Do not allow yourself to become wrapped up in a food 'lifestyle'. That is ego, and you are not that.

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