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Dietary Fat & The Development of Type II Diabetes, thoughts?

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  • Dietary Fat & The Development of Type II Diabetes, thoughts?

    Greetings Primal Enthusiasts! This is my first post, so bear with me. I was telling one of my clients today about some of the original flawed research from the 50's on saturated fat & cholesterol and he informed me that blood lipids were actually his specialty (He's a professor of biology at UCDenver). He went into great detail about how high levels of sugar were killing us slowly by creating all sorts of inflammation and cracks in our arteries. He spoke about some of the same stuff from "The Big Fat Fiasco" videos even though he hadn't seen them. (Definitely worth watching if you haven't seen them, just go to youtube). I was going on about the positive aspects of living primal, but when I mentioned increasing saturated fat, he got a little nervous. He then informed me of several brand new studies relating to Diabetes and Saturated Fat and asked if I had heard anything. I hadn't and I wanted specific details. Sooooo, it seems that someone somewhere made a "correlation between sat. fat and diabetes" of course my first thought was, "well that sounds like flawed science". The majority of Americans with a diet high in sugary sweet carbs probably get those from junk food, also laden with sat. fats. So anyone could draw a correlation there, but from what we know about diabetes, the sugars are most likely the culprit. He agreed, but then went on to say that because those questions were raised, they needed to use a study group who's main caloric source was fat. They found these people in...I think he said Africa (I'll find out for sure soon). The study is taking place in a group of people who's diet consists mainly of fat, specifically sat. fat. These people at first look healthy and slim. Here's the kicker, the majority of them had the advanced stages of Type II Diabetes!! I don't think this research has been published just yet and I'm really interested in reading more. My biggest question to my fellow Grokonians is: Since we know Type II Diabetes is reversible, has anyone reduced or eliminated their own Type II Diabetes since following the Primal Blueprint? Thanks for listening and I hope this may generate some more discussion. ;

  • #2
    I was not technically diagnosed with Type 2 diabetes, though I probably should have been. In 2008 my blood glucose test on my annual physical was 135, but my doctor didn't seem that concerned with it. My triglycerides were sky high, and my TSH was through the roof too so I was hypothyroid. Last summer after cleaning up my diet, I purchased a blood glucose monitor and used it for a couple of months. It was an exploration of what foods did what to my readings. I was able to get to fasting blood glucose levels in the 80's. From my experience, fat and protein were not the food types that significantly triggered glucose/insulin response.

    Have you read the MDA blog on this? Here's the link: Does a High-Fat Diet Cause Type 2 Diabetes? | Mark's Daily Apple It references the study your friend spoke to you about, and what the "flaws" in the science were.
    There's a crack inside of everything, that's how the light gets in. ~Leonard Cohen
    Journal, From Sick to Fit: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread45653.html

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    • #3
      this feels like trolling. my apologies if it isn't.

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      • #4
        But "where" did the saturated fat come from? Animal fat or a fruit such as a coconut?. I don't believe saturated animal fat is good for us, but coconuts are a totally different area.

        Unfortunately science isn't "always" science...

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        • #5
          Have you read about what saturated animal breaks down into in your body? Many of the fatty acids are considered beneficial. If its not "good for you" it is at least neutral.

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          • #6
            I am a Type II diabetic. I am hoping that living Primal will "cure" me of this disease. It has not as of yet. I started my journey weighing in at 367, I was taking 50 units of long term insulin daily before bed and my Dr. wanted me to started taking short term. I also took a couple of pills twice a day also. Even with everything I was taking, my fasting blood sugar was avereraging around 145... After going Primal and and reading Mark's book, I finally understood how insulin worked and how it lowered your blood sugar (store it as fat). I took myself off the insulin and started living strict Primal. As I expected, my fasting blood sugar shot up to averaging somewhere around 180 - 230. Something I can live with for now, but not long term. The good news is in 4 months, I droppped 70 lbs. But my diabetes is far from being cured. Last week, my perscriptions for the pills ran out and I decided to try a little experiement. Bad news, within a week, my BS shoot up to 380 without the meds and this was living Primal, no sugar, no glutean, no fruit..... Walking 40 minutes a day.. Real bad news for me..... Back on the meds. I am also planing on losing another 70 lbs, I am hoping that will do the trick....
            I Kettlebell therefore I am.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by TorMag View Post
              I am a Type II diabetic. I am hoping that living Primal will "cure" me of this disease. It has not as of yet. I started my journey weighing in at 367, I was taking 50 units of long term insulin daily before bed and my Dr. wanted me to started taking short term. I also took a couple of pills twice a day also. Even with everything I was taking, my fasting blood sugar was avereraging around 145... After going Primal and and reading Mark's book, I finally understood how insulin worked and how it lowered your blood sugar (store it as fat). I took myself off the insulin and started living strict Primal. As I expected, my fasting blood sugar shot up to averaging somewhere around 180 - 230. Something I can live with for now, but not long term. The good news is in 4 months, I droppped 70 lbs. But my diabetes is far from being cured. Last week, my perscriptions for the pills ran out and I decided to try a little experiement. Bad news, within a week, my BS shoot up to 380 without the meds and this was living Primal, no sugar, no glutean, no fruit..... Walking 40 minutes a day.. Real bad news for me..... Back on the meds. I am also planing on losing another 70 lbs, I am hoping that will do the trick....
              It might take time to heal.
              Primal since March 2011

              Female/29 years old/5' 1"/130ish lbs

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              • #8
                I've read lots of stories on here about people who have cured or greatly improved their TII diabetes. Do a search for yourself - the stories are very motivational - much like TorMag (great going by the way). My brother's story sounds much like his. I think it takes longer for some because they have so much to heal first to get their bodies running right and it is often hard to find a Dr who gets it. My bros docs are amazed w/ his progress as most TII patients continue to decline as they never fix the main cause of their problem.

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                • #9
                  I think the link between Sat fat and type II diabetes may be related to membrane permeability. It is well established that having a cell membrane that is primarily made up of saturated fat reduces permeability of that cell membrane. I don't really know that this is a saturated fat issue per se, it's more likely that it is the result of a lack of essential fats that increase membrane permeability. Researchers need to ask the question, "Does the tribe in question have access to Omega-3s and 6s and does the increase in saturated fat come at the expense of these fats.

                  I don't like to think of Type 2 Diabetes as a disease, it's more of a metabolic state in most people. Where it progresses to a disease is when you blow out the beta cells in your pancreas, then you lose the ability to produce insulin and are dependent on injections of it because they can't regenerate. What makes it more of a metabolic state is that it is essentially the phenotypic expression of a specific genotype, one that through natural selection has become plentiful (Think about it, people with genes that are thrifty and that react more promptly to insulin to store fat better would be more likely to survive times of scarce food). With no selection pressure on us to find food the current environment is terrible for people with this genotype.

                  What is very interesting when looking at the data is that most people with type 2 diabetes tend to have significantly more fast-twitch glycolytic muscle fibers. These muscle fibers store and burn the bulk of glucose not burned by your brain and nervous system and coincidentally are the least used which leaves them chronically full and, therefore, insulin resistant. Increase their storage capacity AND actually use them and your blood glucose slowly normalizes provided your beta cells are still intact. This underlies the problem with chronic cardio as a form of exercise in type 2 diabetics. Not only does chronic cardio not burn much glucose at all, it actually atrophies the fast-twitch glycolytic muscle fibers so they store less glycogen and never get the opportunity to burn their current stores. You may recruit quite a few of the slow-twitch fibers, but they are rarely insulin resistant because they are constantly used since their force threshold for recruitment is very low. Plus they store little glycogen so they don't tend to have a significant impact on blood glucose anyway.

                  In a nutshell, as Mark says, "Lift heavy things and perform cardio between 55-75% of your max HR." Avoid chronic cardio like the plague.
                  Last edited by Dave Mayo; 01-14-2012, 07:57 AM.

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                  • #10
                    I think you are referring to this article: How fat and obesity cause diabetes I saw a deconstruction on someone's paleo blog but now I can't find it. The headlines for these things are always wrong. The study wasn't about how fatty diets cause diabetes at all. It's about beta cells and obesity, and to get the mice obese they chose mice prone to obesity and fed them a horrible diet high in carbohydrate and artificial fat. But that doesn't make for a flashy headline so they made up a better one. Anyway, there's a link to the full-text on the page.
                    Female, 5'3", 50, Max squat: 202.5lbs. Max deadlift: 225 x 3.

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                    • #11
                      Thanks

                      Very insightful, thanks! We know that Type II diabetes is not only caused by elevated blood sugars but other things as well. One of the other main culprits is excess adipose tissue around the midsection (usually stemming from previously high doses of sugars, but nonetheless there are other factors). The professor I spoke with was going a little over my head when he was trying to describe what they had found in the study. He thought that as the sat. fat was being broken down it may be converting to something that was impairing insulin release but they weren't sure how. Again, not for sure, just a theory, and one that needs much more research. For the record, I think the Primal way is legit and it makes total sense with everything that we know now. However, I have to admit it took some getting used to this way of thinking. I spent 4 years in school for an Exercise Science degree and nutrition minor and NEVER had ANY of this come up..... They PREACH PREACH PREACH: Low sat. fat and whole grains in almost every class. Maybe I need to go back to school and do a research project and get this stuff out in the open once and for all! Who's with me?!

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                      • #12
                        Excellent points, the Omega 3's and 6's would be a great question to ask. I'll do my best to find out.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by TorMag View Post
                          I am a Type II diabetic. I am hoping that living Primal will "cure" me of this disease. It has not as of yet. I started my journey weighing in at 367, I was taking 50 units of long term insulin daily before bed and my Dr. wanted me to started taking short term. I also took a couple of pills twice a day also. Even with everything I was taking, my fasting blood sugar was avereraging around 145... After going Primal and and reading Mark's book, I finally understood how insulin worked and how it lowered your blood sugar (store it as fat). I took myself off the insulin and started living strict Primal. As I expected, my fasting blood sugar shot up to averaging somewhere around 180 - 230. Something I can live with for now, but not long term. The good news is in 4 months, I droppped 70 lbs. But my diabetes is far from being cured. Last week, my perscriptions for the pills ran out and I decided to try a little experiement. Bad news, within a week, my BS shoot up to 380 without the meds and this was living Primal, no sugar, no glutean, no fruit..... Walking 40 minutes a day.. Real bad news for me..... Back on the meds. I am also planing on losing another 70 lbs, I am hoping that will do the trick....
                          Are you limiting your protein and eating times?
                          I can have really bad B.S. numbers while eating no sugar, gluten or fruit. It's from eating too much protein and or veggies - especially roots, starches and fruit veggies like tomatoes and peppers - it's still sugar.

                          If you're eating multiple times a day, that may also be a problem. Your body doesn't have enough rest time to properly deal with the glucose in your body. It has to keep digesting the multiple meals.

                          Try finding your protein needs for your "Lean Body Mass", then exercise BEFORE you eat and only eat 1x a day. Eat all of your calories in one meal and fast for the rest of the day. Daily fasting helps to steadily bring down your numbers (I've found) - but only if you don't overload your system in excess protein or plant sugars.

                          Tracking what and how much you're eating will help you figure out how much of what type of food you need. (Fat, Carbs, Protein)

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                          • #14
                            Congrats on your progress! The study that you posted is a little different, but the one I was referring to was actually done with humans. As soon as I find out the specifics of it, I'll post what I know. I always think mice studies are interesting...and then I remember that I'm not a mouse, I'm a carnivore with k-9 teeth and an appetite for meat.

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                            • #15
                              Just remember that they almost never separate the carbs from the fat when they do studies in humans. Check the ratios and make sure the human diets truly were high fat/low carb and not just high carb and high fat. Diabetics should do primal as low carb. Insulin resistant folks probably should too. And not all diabetics will be cured. You may need to define success as reduced medication.
                              Female, 5'3", 50, Max squat: 202.5lbs. Max deadlift: 225 x 3.

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