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  • #46
    1



    I don't know anything specific about the Chukchi. My comments were related to the Inuit. How about you provide some references to back up your claims about the health and vitamin D status of the Chukchi? It is not compelling to tell me that they were healthy on a traditional diet without providing any data.


    Of course I eat animal skin when it is available. But I don't kid myself into thinking it is adequate. I'm not eating the skins of arctic mammals, and I haven't seen any evidence that pig or chicken skin is a good substitute for them.

    Comment


    • #47
      1



      The Inuit before colinization in the 50's rarely lived past the age of 50. They ate the whole seal (except for the leanest meats which went to the dogs) including brains and intestine followed by a large gulp of seal blood.


      This is not the same as a T-bone and liver patte.

      Don't be a paleotard...

      http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/nut...oxidation.html

      http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/nut...torage-qa.html

      http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat...rn-fat-qa.html

      http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/nut...-you-need.html

      Comment


      • #48
        1



        Stefansson lived with the Eskimo for many years, including at least one tribe that had never before met a 'white man':

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vilhjalmur_Stefansson
        [quote]

        Stefansson also rejected the second proviso (more than he did the first one) that they ate the entire animal Sorry Regina Wilshire! Both Eskimo and northern forest Indians, and whites who live with them have a clear mental picture of the animal they butcher. They divide the carcass then or later so that certain parts go uniformly to the dog team, the rest to the family. These divisions of the carcass vary from one animal to another but do not vary within the species unless slightly by season. The liver is nearly always given to the dogs as are the sweetbreads and all things in the body cavity except the heart and kidneys. The kidneys were given to the children somewhat as if they were candy. The only time the forest Indians and the Inuit of northern Alaska and northwestern Canada ate the whole animal was only under the conditions of famine. When they ceased to give the dogs the parts that they normally got, it was also time to kill the dogs themselves and eat them too.
        </blockquote>


        http://blog.zeroinginonhealth.com/?p=397


        There is no merit to the myth that Eskimos ate the entire animal. Like us, they preferred muscle meat.

        The "Seven Deadly Sins"

        Grains (wheat/rice/oats etc) . . . . . Dairy (milk/yogurt/butter/cheese etc) . . . . . Nightshades (peppers/tomato/eggplant etc)
        Tubers (potato/arrowroot etc) . . . Modernly palatable (cashews/olives etc) . . . Refined foods (salt/sugars etc )
        Legumes (soy/beans/peas etc)

        Comment


        • #49
          1



          Also, in 2004 the life expectancy of the Chuckchi is 55.


          They do have access to sea mammals. They live on the chuckchi peninsula and have a diet very similar to the Inuit.

          Don't be a paleotard...

          http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/nut...oxidation.html

          http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/nut...torage-qa.html

          http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat...rn-fat-qa.html

          http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/nut...-you-need.html

          Comment


          • #50
            1



            There are also inland Chukchi that live on reindeer (and not sea life)


            Prior to the introduction of some rather recent medical advances, the life expectancy of the average civilized person was as low as the average hunter-gatherer.


            55 is quite a good average, considering their living conditions and access to medical aid.

            The "Seven Deadly Sins"

            Grains (wheat/rice/oats etc) . . . . . Dairy (milk/yogurt/butter/cheese etc) . . . . . Nightshades (peppers/tomato/eggplant etc)
            Tubers (potato/arrowroot etc) . . . Modernly palatable (cashews/olives etc) . . . Refined foods (salt/sugars etc )
            Legumes (soy/beans/peas etc)

            Comment


            • #52
              1



              yep, i do get sun during the 2 weeks im diving somewhere in the indian ocean

              i still dont think thats enough.

              challenge yourself
              i blog here http://theprimalwoman.blogspot.com/

              Comment


              • #53
                1



                Thanks chima_p, I suspected the Chukchi diet was similar to that of the Inuit, but I had to drop a kiddo at school and didn&#39;t have time to look it up.


                Tarlach, still waiting to hear about Chukchi vitamin D status. And since you&#39;re drawing a distinction between inland Chukchi and those that live on the peninsula, I&#39;d like comparisons of the vitamin D and health status (not just life expectancy) of the subgroups as well.

                Comment


                • #54
                  1



                  eva> Well your diet is great, so you probably have nothing to worry about. Don&#39;t let all the fear mongering get to you


                  Pikaia> I&#39;m not drawing any distinctions between inland and coastal Chukchi besides from saying they have different diets based upon availability of food.


                  I&#39;m not going to go and find specific details for you, because you are too lazy to do it. I have supplied you with a new factor in the vitamin D equation and it is up to you to decide if you care about it or not. I&#39;m perfectly content that I have taken enough information into account to make my decision to not take supplements. If you ignore evidence, or blindly accept the information that convinces you to take supplements, then that&#39;s up to you. I&#39;m simply supplying information so people can have a better picture of what is going on and make their own minds up.


                  Grok didn&#39;t need supplements and neither do modern hunter gatherer tribes. We may require supplements on a SAD diet, but eating PB is probably enough to fix that and eating more meat definitely will.


                  How about I leave you with a quote (from yourself):
                  [quote]

                  and I&#39;m sure you know how to Google.
                  </blockquote>
                  The "Seven Deadly Sins"

                  Grains (wheat/rice/oats etc) . . . . . Dairy (milk/yogurt/butter/cheese etc) . . . . . Nightshades (peppers/tomato/eggplant etc)
                  Tubers (potato/arrowroot etc) . . . Modernly palatable (cashews/olives etc) . . . Refined foods (salt/sugars etc )
                  Legumes (soy/beans/peas etc)

                  Comment


                  • #55
                    1



                    And here&#39;s some information about life expectancy, to show why native tribes have shorter averages:


                    http://donmatesz.blogspot.com/2010/02/paleo-life-expectancy.html


                    It&#39;s usually a case of infant death rates due to situations that they aren&#39;t old enough to handle. I&#39;m sure the Chukchi are exposed to these, as was Grok.


                    Western medicine and lifestyle has almost completely eradicated this part of the curve for modern societies (and subsequently raised our average life expectancy)

                    The "Seven Deadly Sins"

                    Grains (wheat/rice/oats etc) . . . . . Dairy (milk/yogurt/butter/cheese etc) . . . . . Nightshades (peppers/tomato/eggplant etc)
                    Tubers (potato/arrowroot etc) . . . Modernly palatable (cashews/olives etc) . . . Refined foods (salt/sugars etc )
                    Legumes (soy/beans/peas etc)

                    Comment


                    • #56
                      1



                      that same blog points out that the longest lived groups are the ones who eat plants and animals, such as the okinawans. he has a fairly recent post discussing the diets of mostly-meat groups and groups with a broader-ranging diet.


                      all-meat is great, but meat+plant gets you to the really old ages in excellent health. that&#39;s just simple fact. a diverse diet of meat and herbs and local plants is the way for longest life at a high level of health. just meat alone will get you to about 65-70 on average. a little veg thrown in and some herbs is what gets people to 80-85 on average.


                      i can&#39;t get access to 120 kinds of plants like the kalahari bushmen, and i can only get access to a few kinds of meat and fish that are reasonably &#39;pure&#39; and as a pregnant woman i have a current intolerance for organ meat, even raw, so i supplement with vitamin d and fish oil. plus, you know, the whole &#39;brown and lives near the arctic circle thing&#39;. i am way browner than any inuit (they are actually quite pale compared to their distant relatives in warmer areas of, say, north america) and even in high summer i am not getting near enough vitD from the sun or from meat.


                      don&#39;t get me wrong, i am (when not pregnant) like 80% meat in my own diet, but i don&#39;t think all vegetables are all poison or that herbs in my bone soup are draining me of precious precious life. and the data doesn&#39;t support your extreme view on meat as much as you&#39;d think.

                      Comment


                      • #57
                        1



                        Tarlach, the burden of proof is on you, not me. Since you won&#39;t present any evidence, I can only conclude that you don&#39;t have any solid data to support your position. If anyone is being lazy here, it is you.

                        Comment


                        • #58
                          1



                          What do you want me to prove? That the Chukchi have adequate vitamin D?


                          And how do I do that when we can&#39;t even test for anything besides vitamin D in the blood (which doesn&#39;t show stored vitamin D anyway) and we don&#39;t know how much people actually need (as shown in the link I posted).


                          As I stated earlier:


                          How about the fact that they are darker skinned and eat more meat. This shows that they didn&#39;t need to change pigmentation to synthesize more vitamin D (if that&#39;s why it happened in Europe).


                          How about you explain to me why the Eskimo and Chukchi have darker skin, when they live so far north and have extremely limited sun exposure? They obviously haven&#39;t evolved to synthesize more vitamin D because they didn&#39;t need to.


                          So why would any PB eater require vitamin D supplements? Especially any who eat a lot of meat.

                          The "Seven Deadly Sins"

                          Grains (wheat/rice/oats etc) . . . . . Dairy (milk/yogurt/butter/cheese etc) . . . . . Nightshades (peppers/tomato/eggplant etc)
                          Tubers (potato/arrowroot etc) . . . Modernly palatable (cashews/olives etc) . . . Refined foods (salt/sugars etc )
                          Legumes (soy/beans/peas etc)

                          Comment


                          • #59
                            1



                            fbw> I&#39;m not carnivorous, so I don&#39;t see what your point is? What is my &#39;extreme view&#39; supposed to be? I said more meat helps you avoid any vitamin D deficiencies. The further north you live, the more meat required in the diet. This is closely supported by the documentation of dietary habits of modern tribes.


                            I never said veg was bad for you. Europeans were consuming things like grains when they changed pigmentation and it&#39;s neolithic food that is the likely cause of any possible vitamin D depletion.


                            As PB avoids these things, it&#39;s quite easy to go without vitamin D supplements. It&#39;s only people like eva that may need to eat more meat than average.
                            [quote]

                            White Europeans could have evolved as recently as 5,500 years ago, according to research which suggests that the early humans who populated Britain and Scandinavia had dark skins for millenniums.


                            It was only when early humans gave up hunter-gathering and switched to farming about 5,500 years ago that white skin began to be favoured, say the researchers.</blockquote>


                            http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle6814896.ece

                            The "Seven Deadly Sins"

                            Grains (wheat/rice/oats etc) . . . . . Dairy (milk/yogurt/butter/cheese etc) . . . . . Nightshades (peppers/tomato/eggplant etc)
                            Tubers (potato/arrowroot etc) . . . Modernly palatable (cashews/olives etc) . . . Refined foods (salt/sugars etc )
                            Legumes (soy/beans/peas etc)

                            Comment


                            • #60
                              1



                              Some good info on this thread, but please try not to attack other members for their opinions/advice.


                              Let Tarlach present his info as he wills, we all have our own lives and cannot possibly conduct and post all the research required to answer all questions.


                              Let&#39;s just keep it a little more civil.

                              Comment

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