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  • Ketones way too high - dangerous?

    Personal Details:
    Age: 39
    Weight: 200 lbs
    Body: Not fat overall except in stomach area - definite gut due to visceral fat under my stomach muscles
    Waist Measurement: Waist is 38" (Just measured)
    Ability to enter ketosis: Easy
    Note: Probably ruined hormones by eating massive amounts of carbs first 30 years of life - 1/2 gallon apple juice a day, pancakes, waffles, maple syrup, breakfast cerial, skim milk, pasta - that's all I ate. I was mostly vegetarian but didn't eat vegetables.
    Note: 4 years ago had fasting blood sugar at around 118. Bought a glucose meter and found that my blood sugar was high in the morning but okay throughout the day. I reduced my carbs greatly after that so I don't think I still have a blood sugar problem. But just in case I have a new glucose meter on order - it's scheduled to arrive on Monday.

    Executive Summary
    Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday - low carb - only source 15 g of carbs from rice crackers.
    Thursday, Friday - No Carb

    I got new ketosticks last night (Friday) and my urine ketone level was over 100 mg/dL. I drank lots of water last night and went to bed. This morning my urine ketone level was still over 100 mg/dL. (See attached photo). My last batch of ketosticks ran out a few weeks ago but I do know that I normally am not in ketosis in the evening but I usually have around 5 mg/DL of ketones in my urine when I wake up in the morning. (This was when my main source of carbs was 2 Trader Joe's Dark Chocolate bars a day.)

    Saliva PH: 6.0 (Normally fairly close to 7)

    Is this dangerous? Do I need to add back carbs ASAP?

    Why isn't my body becoming keto adapted and using the ketones?


    Background Info

    For the last year or so, I kept my carbs fairly low and I was somewhat primal. I strayed off the path with tons of Peanut Butter, tons of Almond Butter, occasional ice cream, and 2 Trader Joes Dark Chocolate bars a day (54 grams of sugar).

    The problem with this diet is that I was constantly hungry all day (I've always had a very strong appetite). My body is not fat due to a very high motablism but I do have a gut that sticks out in front of me. (38" waist)

    Diet Thursday & Friday
    Breakfast:
    3.5 Oz of Trader Joes Lunch Meat
    10 Macadamia Nuts
    4 big spoonfuls of coconut oil.
    1/4 pint of heavy cream

    Lunch
    4 Slices of Bacon
    3 Eggs cooked in bacon grease & Coconut oil
    Several pads of putter melted on top of eggs
    1/4 pint of heavy cream
    2 Big Spoonfulls of Coconut oil

    Dinner
    Baby Lettuce with Olive Oil
    1/3 lb of boneless chicken thighs eaten with butter (cut off piece of butter & ate with each byte)
    2 Big spoonfulls of coconut oil

    (Similair diet monday, tuesday, wednesday but with small amount of rice crackers eaten with butter on those days)
    • With this diet, I've only been moderately hungry between meals which is a HUGE improvement. I normally am ravenous between meals. I generally liked the feeling of satiety I had during the day. I really liked eating all of that fat - it was delicious.
    • The anxiety I normally feel all the time was completely gone.
    • I did feel slightly mentally sluggish and slightly physically weak but it wasn't too bad.
    Attached Files

  • #2
    high concentration of ketones usually depicts onset of mild dehydration.

    drink more, and the sticks will show less.

    then bin the sticks they are highly unreliable.
    "Today’s technological age is enjoyed by the fattest, laziest humans in the history of humanity." -Mark Sisson

    Comment


    • #3
      More ‘Safe Starches’ Stuff And Why I’ve Decided NOT To Test Them On Myself « Jimmy Moore's Livin' La Vida Low Carb Blog
      It isn’t necessarily ketosis that we want…it is the burning of those ketones that is beneficial, and the two are often opposite. Ketosis is what is left over from not having burned them. Eating carbs can inhibit the burning of ketones that the MCTs may be making, thus resulting in ketosis, but not necessarily ketone utilization. --Ron Rosedale, MD

      Comment


      • #4
        It also seems that your protein grams are a little low
        for a dude your size.

        You've got the fat thing down, but the protein seems to be
        lacking a little.

        And yeah, trash the sticks - not only do they read the fat
        that is being burned by your body, but they also read the
        fat that you pop into your mouth.

        I drink a gallon of water a day.

        I can use the sticks and register nothing - but if I go an eat 4 eggs
        with 2 tablespoons of coconut oil, then use the sticks, even AFTER
        drinking all that water, they come up purple.

        That really pissed me off and I stopped using them.

        Julie

        Comment


        • #5
          im upwards of a gallon (4-5L) and they never show usually, unless testing in the morning.

          only use them every so often to be fair
          "Today’s technological age is enjoyed by the fattest, laziest humans in the history of humanity." -Mark Sisson

          Comment


          • #6
            High levels of ketones are only dangerous if you also have high blood sugar (like 300+ high, not under 120).

            It looks like you're on a severe ketogenic diet, 80% or so fat. Of course you're regestering high ketones.

            Comment


            • #7
              OK, I understand that a high level of ketones is not dangerous.

              My new blood sugar meter was delivered to me today. I measured the Control Solution with my new glucose meter and I got readings of 79 and 80. According to the vial, it's supposed to be 83 to 125 so I think this meter is off on the low side.

              I tested myself multiple times 1 hour after a low carb meal and 84, 64, 70, 77, and 86. I don't trust these results so I ordered another meter of the same brand to see if the readings will be any different.

              I'm really interested in what my fasting glucose will be so I'll measure again tomorrow morning.

              Comment


              • #8
                If I was you I'd call the tech support for your meter and let them know. They're pretty good about making sure that you're getting accurate readings and identifying why you aren't. It could be the meter, or it could be your strips. They are also likely to send you a new one instead of you having to pay for one.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Chasintrail View Post
                  If I was you I'd call the tech support for your meter and let them know. They're pretty good about making sure that you're getting accurate readings and identifying why you aren't. It could be the meter, or it could be your strips. They are also likely to send you a new one instead of you having to pay for one.
                  I'd rather own two meters of the same model anyway. With two meters, 2 bottles of control solution, and multiple batches of test strips it will be easier to figure out what specifically is defective if anything.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Took morning blood sugar with suspect meter - it was 62 mg/DL. I seriously doubt that it is really this low but I'm more confident that I don't have the high morning blood sugar that I used to have 4 years ago. I guess this makes sense considering the massive amounts of sugar, carbs, and grains I used to consume those days.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Ketogentic for 5 months here

                      it takes 3 weeks for the body to become adapted to using the ketones. after that your level will fall but you will still be in ketosis. do not introduce carbs over 30g daily unless you are leaving ketosis for good.

                      you really care about fasting insulin and not fasting glucose un a ketogenic environment. as you adapt your body will convert triglycerides to glucose for use in the brain and your fasting glucose will level off but the number is simply YOUR number. that becomes your baseline. it may trend lower over the months but it will effectively stabilize and it can bump up from time to time as you exert yourself mentally for long period OR your brain need more glucose for homeostatic regulation.
                      Optimum Health powered by Actualized Self-Knowledge.

                      Predator not Prey
                      Paleo Ketogenic Lifestyle

                      CW 315 | SW 506
                      Current Jeans 46 | Starting Jeans 66


                      Contact me: quelsen@gmail.com

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by quelsen View Post
                        Ketogentic for 5 months here

                        it takes 3 weeks for the body to become adapted to using the ketones. after that your level will fall but you will still be in ketosis. do not introduce carbs over 30g daily unless you are leaving ketosis for good.

                        you really care about fasting insulin and not fasting glucose un a ketogenic environment. as you adapt your body will convert triglycerides to glucose for use in the brain and your fasting glucose will level off but the number is simply YOUR number. that becomes your baseline. it may trend lower over the months but it will effectively stabilize and it can bump up from time to time as you exert yourself mentally for long period OR your brain need more glucose for homeostatic regulation.
                        Thanks. Do you know any way to determine your fasting insulin level at home? Or is that something you need to go to a proper lab to get?

                        This is my 10th day staying at 15g grams of carbs a day or less. My ketone level still very high in my urine though the level seems slightly less than a week ago. My energy level is good and my mental focus fair. Overall I feel very good.

                        I'm expecting that my body will become fully ketone adapted in the next few weeks and the ketone strips will show either no ketones or very low levels of ketones.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I have as of yet not figured a relationship between fasting insulin and fasting glucose
                          Optimum Health powered by Actualized Self-Knowledge.

                          Predator not Prey
                          Paleo Ketogenic Lifestyle

                          CW 315 | SW 506
                          Current Jeans 46 | Starting Jeans 66


                          Contact me: quelsen@gmail.com

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I'm always in the very very dark range. I am certainly not dehydrated, and sometimes it has been almost 48 hours since my last meal so it isn't always dietary fat. The only time I'm not in dark ketone reading is after a sweet potato binge. I feel fantastic! I barely use the sticks at all anymore, and won't replace this bottle.
                            5'6" Female, 29 Years Old, 260/195/120

                            "Discipline is choosing between what you want NOW, and what you want MOST!"

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I'll admit I don't understand the settup of this reply...

                              "Why isn't my body becoming keto adapted and using the ketones?"


                              "[*]With this diet, I've only been moderately hungry between meals which is a HUGE improvement. I normally am ravenous between meals. I generally liked the feeling of satiety I had during the day. I really liked eating all of that fat - it was delicious.[*]The anxiety I normally feel all the time was completely gone.[*]I did feel slightly mentally sluggish and slightly physically weak but it wasn't too bad.[/LIST][/QUOTE]"



                              I think this is where my reply goes? Okay, so it sounds to me like you are not getting enough fats in your diet. Fats are very important for several reasons, for one, they are what is most likely to keep your blood sugar balanced. You are most likely feeling sluggish and week for this very reason. If you are not longer getting the sugars to run your body off of, which is what sends your body into the ketogenic state, then it needs fats to do the job. In-fact, fats are a much more stable form of energy than sugars. They work longer and stronger. They help to loose weight (avoid trans fatty acids created by heating vegetable oils) when not paired with all the sugars and grains (too much detail for me to get into here), lubricate joints, and are extremely necessary for the brain and it's functions due to the fact that the brain is mostly composed of fats. One good thing about the ketogenic diet, specifically with the use of coconut oil, is that it is able to pass the blood brain barrier. It cures a lot of epilepsy specifically, and when implemented with probiotics and some vegetables it cures a MULTITUDE of psychological disorders, digestive issues, food allergies, and some physiological disorders such as type 2 diabetes. I am referring to the GAPS diet. It stands for Gut And Psychosis Syndrome, which emphasizes on imbalanced gut flora and leaky gut syndrome being the primary cause of so many issues nearly everyone is having today. Ketogenic diet is VERY high fat ratio, with a small percent protein and even smaller non starchy veggie... it is nauseating and extreme but beneficial. however, that extreme isn't always necessary, it just wouldn't be technically full on ketogenic. however, there are varying levels of it and good combinations. a dietitian would be very beneficial in your situation. infact, it has been warned to me by a trusted dietitian that the ketogenic diet can be a little bit dangerous and it is important to maintain certain testings and communication with a dietitian. The GAPS diet is less severe and more manageable and without the use of probiotics, the results of the ketogenic by itself aren't typically long lasting anyway. It is the probiotics that are needed to rebalance the gut flora so that digestion can return to normalcy, the fats are basically there to heal the gut lining which cant be well achieved without proper digestion due to the right bacteria balance (gut flora), to change how we get our energy, and to do wonders for so many other parts of the body. I don't have all the answers or details, but I know of a book that does have a LOT of information I believe you would GREATLY apretiate. Look up G.A.P.S. It is a book about your gut, the connections I was speaking of and so much information. It even tells you detailed information about what to do about it, how to do pretty much everything, and goes into some detail about the ketogenic diet as well. It's really too much for me to try to explain here. I'll just say that I did do it and at one point it stopped me from seizures completely. I used to have them constantly, all day every day. I have stopped doing it for a long time before I was actually done and so I have regressed, but I am still so much better than I was. I'm pregnant now too so a few things are a little different. Even with suffering through eating a few grains here and there, my ketones are way higher than they ever were when i was actually doing a nearly ketogenic diet. I think it has to do with feeding for two. I have to go back and read the section on pregnancy.

                              Also, if I were you... if you are doing the ketogenic diet I would research it more if you haven't already. Find out what is happening and why and how it is helpful... and look at the ratio charts and what keto recommends your diet consisting of. keep in mind too that those diet plans are typically focused on children.

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