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  • We need HIGH carb?!?

    What do you all think of this:

    Starch Lowers Insulin – 180 Degree Health

    Just when I thought I was doing the right thing with low carb, this comes along?

  • #2
    Interesting....

    Interesting article but I don't necessarily find it authoritative. It states that it depends on the context -- I would argue it depends on the person. But I'm glad that this article supports my current eating style because I am trying to increase insulin sensitivity but have worked hard to "eat what feels good to my body." This included potatoes, yams, and other roots. Not with every meal obviously but a few times a week I do use them in meals. I think really gauging your individual body and response is a big indicator of what's going to work. I mentioned this in another thread just last night. I eat a lot of dairy because it regulates my mood and seems to facilitate greater weight loss for me. Some people would have the opposite experience.
    Lindsay Groks On

    "Be careful about reading health books. You may die of a misprint."
    -- Mark Twain

    Comment


    • #3
      Nobody takes Matt Stone seriously, and neither should you.

      He's not telling the whole story, I agree that there's nothing inherently wrong with starches, and plenty people here eat quite a lot of them BUT they make sure to earn them by being physically active. Many here bust their asses before going to town on potatoes, white rice, fruits, etc. He's also not making any mention of the pairing of starch with fat, which, when overdone can lead to fat gain. Eating a high carb/low fat meal in a glycogen depleted state (post workout) can certainly be beneficial, but mostly for people that are already somewhat lean and again, physically active.

      Are you very overweight? you're better off sticking to low carb a bit longer, if you're not, hit the weight room and eat your potatoes, but watch the fat intake.

      My favorite part of this article is at the end, he posts his numbers and goes "hmm I'm still leptin resistant it seems, does anybody know a cure for that?" Yeah, Matty, eat less carbs and up your protein.
      I used to seriously post here, now I prefer to troll.

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      • #4
        Yeah I noticed that part at the end and my eyebrows shot up!

        I'm not really overweight. I could lose 15-20lbs and be healthier. I'm also under 5ft so I take all recommendations with a grain of salt. I respond to things much differently than a tall 180lb man. I posted this because Cheeseslave posted it in facebook, and I'm interested in what the MDA community has to say.

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        • #5
          Interesting. I do well on starchy veg, including potatoes once or twice a day. But I have to keep my carbs below 100 grams/day to lose fat and maintain a healthy blood sugar level.
          Ancestral Health Info

          I design websites and blogs for a living. If you would like a blog or website designed by someone who understands Primal, see my web page.

          Primal Blueprint Explorer My blog for people who are not into the Grok thing. Since starting the blog, I have moved close to being Archevore instead of Primal. But Mark's Daily Apple is still the best source of information about living an ancestral lifestyle.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Patchthebun View Post
            Yeah I noticed that part at the end and my eyebrows shot up!

            I'm not really overweight. I could lose 15-20lbs and be healthier. I'm also under 5ft so I take all recommendations with a grain of salt. I respond to things much differently than a tall 180lb man. I posted this because Cheeseslave posted it in facebook, and I'm interested in what the MDA community has to say.
            Always keep in mind that on the internet, you can say whatever you want. Ultimately, personal experimentation will determine what the best approach for you is. There are some absolute truths, like liver being awesome for you, but then the flip-side is, eat too much liver and you'll run into issues. Always two sides to every coin.

            Another proponent of a high carb diet is the always funny yet much despised Anthony Colpo, you can read some of his stuff here: AnthonyColpo when reading his work, keep in mind that he a) bikes a lot and gets to 'spend' the carbs he eats and b) lifts, and is therefore insulin resistant and depletes glycogen both through biking and lifting. Were he more of a couch potato he wouldn't get away with eating potatoes.
            I used to seriously post here, now I prefer to troll.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Lindsay Grok View Post
              Interesting article but I don't necessarily find it authoritative. It states that it depends on the context -- I would argue it depends on the person. But I'm glad that this article supports my current eating style because I am trying to increase insulin sensitivity but have worked hard to "eat what feels good to my body." This included potatoes, yams, and other roots. Not with every meal obviously but a few times a week I do use them in meals. I think really gauging your individual body and response is a big indicator of what's going to work. I mentioned this in another thread just last night. I eat a lot of dairy because it regulates my mood and seems to facilitate greater weight loss for me. Some people would have the opposite experience.
              Chronic low carbohydrate creates insulin resistance. Your body loses the ability to efficiently process glucose just like the SAD ruins your body's ability to efficiently process fat. The ultimate diet includes fat as your primary fuel with regular inclusions of starch to keep your body sensitive to insulin. I eat higher fat/low carbohydrate Sunday through Thursday and low fat/higher carbohydrate Friday and Saturday. This has by far worked out the best for me. If you're not a heavy lifter, this probably isn't ideal (my carb-ups are 250-350g of carbs so I have to keep fats very low, under 40g). I would just recommend you eat something starchy like a large sweet potato with one or two dinners a week if you're not an athlete but you're metabolically stable. This is your invitation to make Friday night's T-bone steak and sweet potato night. Do it for your health!
              Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by iniQuity View Post
                Always keep in mind that on the internet, you can say whatever you want. Ultimately, personal experimentation will determine what the best approach for you is. There are some absolute truths, like liver being awesome for you, but then the flip-side is, eat too much liver and you'll run into issues. Always two sides to every coin.

                Another proponent of a high carb diet is the always funny yet much despised Anthony Colpo, you can read some of his stuff here: AnthonyColpo when reading his work, keep in mind that he a) bikes a lot and gets to 'spend' the carbs he eats and b) lifts, and is therefore insulin resistant and depletes glycogen both through biking and lifting. Were he more of a couch potato he wouldn't get away with eating potatoes.
                Colpo makes no bones about his lifestyle and the reasons he consumes so many carbs through starches. He moved to a higher carb diet from a low carb due to thyroid issues and his high level of exercise. He definitely is not pro high carb just anti low carb. He follows a diet very close to paleo but with his extra calories in starches. Shott him an email and ask any questions you might have. The great thing about him is that he has responded to my questions on 2 occassions. I was very weary of him at first because of the way he came across in his blog, but the more I get to know him the more I like his message.
                Check out my primal blog: http://primalroar.posterous.com/

                Comment


                • #9
                  I agree that here are so many factors at play with insulin that generalisations made in this article without detailed context (e.g. how much and what type of exercise the individual does) are worthless.

                  Starch with plenty of fat and protein may raise insulin levels less than other food combinations. That certainly does not make it insulin-lowering though!!!

                  Having said that, I'm reluctant to go low carb right now. I've been losing weight easily, albeit at a moderate pace, eating about 200 g of carbs a day, mostly from safe starch (white rice) and sweet potato. I always eat starch with plenty of fat and protein, to lower the GI, and my breakfast is always very low carb (to moderate my insulin response throughout the rest of the day). I am very active and on average consume about 2500 cals a day.

                  I recognise that everyone's different and should point out that my insulin probably wasn't abnormal when I went primal (even when my BMI had previously been 34, my blood glucose was in the ideal range).

                  I accept that I'll need to adjust my starch intake gradually downwards in order to continue losing weight, and that I might end up in the low carb zone. I'm not particularly bothered about losing remaining excess weight more quickly than about 2-4 lbs a month, so hopefully that won't be necessary (I love my risottos). I'm a little wary of any extremism, but accept that sometimes it's necessary.
                  F 5 ft 3. HW: 196 lbs. Primal SW (May 2011): 182 lbs (42% BF)... W June '12: 160 lbs (29% BF) (UK size 12, US size 8). GW: ~24% BF - have ditched the scales til I fit into a pair of UK size 10 bootcut jeans. Currently aligning towards 'The Perfect Health Diet' having swapped some fat for potatoes.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by MightyAl View Post
                    Colpo makes no bones about his lifestyle and the reasons he consumes so many carbs through starches. He moved to a higher carb diet from a low carb due to thyroid issues and his high level of exercise. He definitely is not pro high carb just anti low carb. He follows a diet very close to paleo but with his extra calories in starches. Shott him an email and ask any questions you might have. The great thing about him is that he has responded to my questions on 2 occassions. I was very weary of him at first because of the way he came across in his blog, but the more I get to know him the more I like his message.
                    Oh I'm def on the Colpo loving side. I like his stuff a lot and I have had one email exchange with him, but mostly me saying I enjoy reading his work. He replied to say thanks. My original post wasn't clear though, sorry. I mean to say he's always funny in his attacks, which make other people despise him, but not me.
                    I used to seriously post here, now I prefer to troll.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
                      Chronic low carbohydrate creates insulin resistance. Your body loses the ability to efficiently process glucose just like the SAD ruins your body's ability to efficiently process fat. The ultimate diet includes fat as your primary fuel with regular inclusions of starch to keep your body sensitive to insulin. I eat higher fat/low carbohydrate Sunday through Thursday and low fat/higher carbohydrate Friday and Saturday. This has by far worked out the best for me. If you're not a heavy lifter, this probably isn't ideal (my carb-ups are 250-350g of carbs so I have to keep fats very low, under 40g). I would just recommend you eat something starchy like a large sweet potato with one or two dinners a week if you're not an athlete but you're metabolically stable. This is your invitation to make Friday night's T-bone steak and sweet potato night. Do it for your health!
                      Choco can you send me in a direction of the scientific support for long term low carb causing insulin resistance. It makes sense and I have always kind of felt that carb cycling would probably lead to optimal but I would like to see the data if you know where to look. A preemptive thank you.
                      My Leptin Reset Thread

                      http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread36932.html

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by CMHFFEMT View Post
                        Choco can you send me in a direction of the scientific support for long term low carb causing insulin resistance. It makes sense and I have always kind of felt that carb cycling would probably lead to optimal but I would like to see the data if you know where to look. A preemptive thank you.
                        A high-fat, ketogenic diet cau... [Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab. 2010] - PubMed - NCBI

                        The big problem some lifters when cutting fat experience with cyclical ketogenic diets is they become so insulin resistant from lack of carbohydrate during the week, when they carb-up over the weekend, they store carbohydrate as fat much more efficiently. My understanding is this:

                        1.) Carbs don't inherently damage your metabolism. Toxins damage your metabolism. You probably won't get insulin resistant and unhealthy eating bananas, plantains and sweet potatoes. It's the whole grains, sugars, legumes, fat free dairy and omega 6 industrial oils causing your metabolic damage. If you damaged your metabolism eating the fake, processed crap, your carbohydrate metabolism is destroyed so you should avoid carbs until it has healed.

                        2.) If you are metabolically stable, going chronically low carbohydrate can become problematic. Chronic low insulin levels leave your leptin chronically low, which makes it difficult for you to lose those "last 10-15 pounds". Also, when you stay chronically low carbohydrate, in the event that you do indulge in them, you're more likely to have a bad reaction, have an energy crash and store them as fat. That's why I won't go more than 4 days or so without eating a significant quantity of starch. Now, I've reached the point where I can operate just fine on no carb, low carb, moderate carb, high carb or massive carb. I've done everything from 0g to 1,000g and my energy level does not fluctuate. I can eat 200+g of carbs from sweet potato in a sitting post-workout without getting tired. However, if I eat two chocolate chip cookies and half a bowl of ice cream (like I did Christmas Eve), I want to fall asleep. It's more the quality of the carbs than the quantity!
                        Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Thanks Choco!
                          My Leptin Reset Thread

                          http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread36932.html

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            unless youre doing some prescribe carb/calorie cycling you should always keep carbs as high as you can afford to when losing weight. fat needs change as you lose body fat but needs to be kept high enough for hormonal signaling. protein needs will change as you lose weight b/c your bound to lose SOME muscle.

                            and fwiw, matt stone does not write with a diet prescription, he writes his OPINIONS, not wat he thinks you should eat/do
                            Get on my Level
                            http://malpaz.wordpress.com/

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                            • #15
                              Thanks MalPaz! That sounds like good advice. I'm working on figuring out how many carbs I need.

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