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  • Originally posted by Paysan View Post
    Can't address all your questions, but as a longterm ulcer sufferer (to the point of bleeding and threatened hospitalization) from a family with many ulcers, I can verify that drinking lots of water dilutes the burning . Same amount of acid, but diluted.
    Exactly, which is just as you'd expect.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Radialhead View Post
      I saw someone saying on Curezone that it's the chloride that flushes the bromine, & I've seen it mentioned here a few times, but not with any references that I recall. The trouble is the only study I've seen on the subject concludes that it's the sodium doing the flushing, not the chloride http://www.biomed.cas.cz/physiolres/pdf/54/54_639.pdf
      Well, there goes that theory...

      Originally posted by Radialhead View Post
      Indeed. Bananas are often recommended for lowering blood pressure due to their potassium content. This is quite interesting http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti...00474-0081.pdf
      Hmm. That still leaves open the possibility of taking large doses of potassium with your large doses of sodium, if it's just blood pressure that's at issue from sodium intake. Has anyone with sodium related blood pressure issues tried dosing themselves with equally ludicrous amounts of potassium at the same time? If so, did it make any difference?
      Argue not with idiots, lest they drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Sceptic View Post
        Well, there goes that theory...
        I wouldn't take one study on rats as definitive, but it should make you question the source of the 'chloride theory'. It may be there are other studies that back it up, or it could just be something somebody wrote on the internet, which was then believed by hordes of gullible people.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Raiken3712 View Post
          I've heard some H.pylori is good...
          I don't know either way, but there are good strains and bad strings of E.Coli and Streptocaccus. The E.Coli in your stomach is good, but you don't want cow's E.Coli. The streptocaccus in yogurt cultures is good, but not the one you obtain when walking through hospitals....

          Comment


          • I was surfing this morning and found this from the Linus Pauling Institute:

            Iodine excess

            It is rare for diets of natural foods to supply more than 2,000 mcg of iodine/day, and most diets supply less than 1,000 mcg of iodine/day. People living in the northern coastal regions of Japan, whose diets contain large amounts of seaweed, have been found to have iodine intakes ranging from 50,000 to 80,000 mcg (50-80 mg) of iodine/day (1).
            And this:

            Acute toxicity

            Acute iodine poisoning is rare and usually occurs only with doses of many grams. Symptoms of acute iodine poisoning include burning of the mouth, throat, and stomach; fever; nausea; vomiting; diarrhea; a weak pulse; and coma (6).
            Linus Pauling Institute at Oregon State University

            LJ
            Learning the intricacies of healthy eating and nourishing my body the right way.
            I am not bald, that is a Vitamin D collector. Time to Grok and Roll!
            Eased into a primal diet starting at Christmas 2011. Goal weight - 205 started: 240 pounds waist 40, now 227 pounds and waist 38 Summer 2012 - weight =215 and waist is actually still 39"
            ljbprrfmof = LJ = Little John = John

            Comment


            • I also found a physicians fact sheet on iodine that had this to say:

              Iodine in food and iodized salt is present in several chemical forms including sodium and potassium salts, inorganic iodine (I2), iodate, and iodide, the reduced form of iodine [4]. Iodine rarely occurs as the element, which is a gas, but rather as a salt; for this reason, it is referred to as iodide and not iodine. Iodide is quickly and almost completely absorbed in the stomach and duodenum. Iodate is reduced in the gastrointestinal tract and absorbed as iodide [2,5]. When iodide enters the circulation, the thyroid gland concentrates it in appropriate amounts for thyroid hormone synthesis and most of the remaining amount is excreted in the urine [2]. The iodine-replete healthy adult has about 15–20 mg of iodine, 70%–80% of which is contained in the thyroid [6].
              And on FBD:

              Fibrocystic breast disease
              Fibrocystic breast disease is a benign condition characterized by lumpy, painful breasts and palpable fibrosis. It commonly affects women of reproductive age, but it can also occur during menopause, especially in women taking estrogens [52]. Breast tissue has a high concentration of iodine, especially during pregnancy and lactation) [4,53]. Some research suggests that iodine supplementation might be helpful for fibrocystic breast disease, although a specific mechanism of action has not been established [54] and data are limited.

              In a double-blind study, researchers randomly assigned 56 women with fibrocystic breast disease to receive daily supplements of iodine (70 to 90 mcg I2/kg body weight) or placebo for 6 months [52]. At treatment completion, 65% of the women receiving iodine reported decreased pain compared with 33% of women in the placebo group. A more recent randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled clinical trial had similar findings. In this study, researchers randomly assigned 111 women (18–50 years of age) with fibrosis and a history of breast pain to receive tablets containing 0 mcg, 1,500 mcg, 3,000 mcg, or 6,000 mcg of iodine per day [54]. After 5 months of treatment, women receiving doses of 3,000 or 6,000 mcg iodine had a significant decrease in breast pain, tenderness, and nodularity compared with those receiving placebo or 1,500 mcg iodine. The researchers also reported a dose-dependent reduction in self-assessed pain. None of the doses was associated with major adverse events or changes in thyroid function test results.

              Although the results of these studies are promising, more research is needed to clarify iodine's role in fibrocystic breast disease. Moreover, the doses used in these studies (approximately 1,500–6,000 mcg per day) are several times higher than the iodine UL of 1,100 mcg for adults. Doses of this magnitude should only be used under the guidance of a physician [2].
              Iodine — Health Professional Fact Sheet

              LJ
              Learning the intricacies of healthy eating and nourishing my body the right way.
              I am not bald, that is a Vitamin D collector. Time to Grok and Roll!
              Eased into a primal diet starting at Christmas 2011. Goal weight - 205 started: 240 pounds waist 40, now 227 pounds and waist 38 Summer 2012 - weight =215 and waist is actually still 39"
              ljbprrfmof = LJ = Little John = John

              Comment


              • You can probably find support for whatever you want to believe if you look hard enough. E.g. the Japanese diet may have included that level of iodine at some point in the past (although I've yet to find any trace of the research used for those figures), but even if it did, is that a good thing? Konno. Iodine Amounts -- Research

                Then there's this: Teng. Iodine Amounts -- Research

                CONCLUSION: Moderate iodine excess continuously suppresses the thyroid iodine uptake and organification, which presents a mechanism for iodine-induced thyroid failure.
                CONCLUSIONS: More than adequate or excessive iodine intake may lead to hypothyroidism and autoimmune thyroiditis.
                We conducted a cross-sectional epidemiological study in three counties (rural communities) in 1999 to investigate the effect of iodine intake on the prevalence of hypothyroidism.... These results demonstrate that elevating iodine intake could increase the risk for development of overt and subclinical hypo-thyroidism. The fact that TSH level was higher in TPOAb (+) group than in TPOAb (-) group in Huanghua in this study indicates that excessive iodine intake may easily induce hypothyroidism in subjects with autoimmune diseases.
                CONCLUSION: Both excessive iodine intake and more than adequate iodine intake could increase risk of subclinical hypothyroidism, supplement of iodine should be controlled to ensure MUI within the safe range.
                I haven't checked to see who financed those studies. There's a lot more studies supporting both camps on that site.

                I think the reality is nobody knows how much iodine is safe or advisable; you just have to stick with what you're happiest with, & ignore the people who seem to be having a competition to see who can take the most without dying.

                Comment


                • I wasn't trying to back up an opinion of mine. If you read my first post, I did say I was surfing. So I posted up the quotes for everybodies consumption. I found the part I highlighted interesting because there was a question a few pages ago in the thread about what happens to the excess iodine. I also found the reference to the Japanese interesting because it did identify people residing in a particular region and not the population as a whole.

                  If you check the URLs, you will find probable sources. I think the Linus J Pauling institute should be a clue enough. Linus Pauling is a well known longevity 'expert' in the USA and is a bit contoversial. The other link is to a .gov URL so I believe that makes it published by the federal government here in the uS.

                  LJ
                  Last edited by ljbprrfmof; 07-31-2012, 06:55 AM. Reason: typos
                  Learning the intricacies of healthy eating and nourishing my body the right way.
                  I am not bald, that is a Vitamin D collector. Time to Grok and Roll!
                  Eased into a primal diet starting at Christmas 2011. Goal weight - 205 started: 240 pounds waist 40, now 227 pounds and waist 38 Summer 2012 - weight =215 and waist is actually still 39"
                  ljbprrfmof = LJ = Little John = John

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Sceptic View Post
                    Well, there goes that theory...



                    Hmm. That still leaves open the possibility of taking large doses of potassium with your large doses of sodium, if it's just blood pressure that's at issue from sodium intake. Has anyone with sodium related blood pressure issues tried dosing themselves with equally ludicrous amounts of potassium at the same time? If so, did it make any difference?
                    Make sure to look around for Potassium information...I can't remember what exactly I read but there was some cause for concern with potassium and the heart. Taking too much can be very dangerous.
                    Age: 28
                    Height: 6'1"
                    Primal start date: July 1st 2011
                    Start Weight: 275
                    Current Weight: 248
                    Stats below as of September 1st 2011 Tested via BodPod
                    Body Fat 25.4%
                    Fat Mass 63.721
                    Fat Free Mass 74.6%
                    Fat Free Mass 187.087
                    Goal weight: 180-200 lbs(Recommended weight is around 180 for my height but that sounds low)
                    Total lost so far: 27 lbs

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by ljbprrfmof View Post
                      I wasn't trying to back up an opinion of mine. If you read my first post, I did say I was surfing.
                      Sorry it was a generic 'you', not you specifically.

                      Originally posted by ljbprrfmof View Post
                      I also found the reference to the Japanese interesting because it did identify people residing in a particular region and not the population as a whole.

                      If you check the URLs, you will find probable sources. I think the Linus J Pauling institute should be a clue enough. Linus Pauling is a well known longevity 'expert' in the USA and is a bit contoversial.
                      It's the actual data & study I want to see though, not someone's summary/interpretation. It's a bit like that recent Harvard study that was reported as concluding that 'eating red meat gives you cancer'. It was only by looking at the data that you could see it was a load of rubbish. As the link only refers to a book that's available for a huge amount of money, I doubt we'll ever know.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Radialhead View Post
                        You can probably find support for whatever you want to believe if you look hard enough. E.g. the Japanese diet may have included that level of iodine at some point in the past (although I've yet to find any trace of the research used for those figures), but even if it did, is that a good thing? Konno. Iodine Amounts -- Research

                        Then there's this: Teng. Iodine Amounts -- Research

                        I haven't checked to see who financed those studies. There's a lot more studies supporting both camps on that site.

                        I think the reality is nobody knows how much iodine is safe or advisable; you just have to stick with what you're happiest with, & ignore the people who seem to be having a competition to see who can take the most without dying.
                        None of those studies account for selenium intake, which we know protects from thyroid antibodies rising with iodine supplementation.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Owl View Post
                          None of those studies account for selenium intake, which we know protects from thyroid antibodies rising with iodine supplementation.
                          Most fish is an excellent source of selenium, so it's highly unlikely the Japanese in the Konno study weren't getting enough.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Radialhead View Post
                            I think the reality is nobody knows how much iodine is safe or advisable; you just have to stick with what you're happiest with, & ignore the people who seem to be having a competition to see who can take the most without dying.
                            Exactly. And get tested to see if you really need it in the first place and be monitored by a doctor if you are doing any large amounts of supplementation. Note : a ranting bully on the net does not count as medical monitoring.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
                              An astute observation from a scientific mind. I have always appreciated your approach to things, Oxide.
                              Interesting discussion about salt. It is important that we get the terminology right.
                              The Sea Tangle kelp noodles' only "salt" is sodium alginate which, according to many raw food sites, is really good at detoxing heavy metals out of your system. I don't know if that is true or not. Oxide?
                              Sodium alginate, is the basis of the original MSG, the glutamic acid being derived from seaweed, kombu(kelp) specifically. It's a chelator, flavor enhancer & yes, it is an excellent detox agent. Even useful in binding heavy metals & rendering radioactive isotopes inert & thus speeding their possible removal from the body. Japanese atomic bomb victims who consumed lots of seaweeds, miso soup, brown rice (good for the bran in absorbing things), pickles & other traditional, whole, indigenous foods, fared much better, hell they lived & recovered, whereas their white rice, sugar eating countrymen did not do well, most did not recover or survive the aftermaths of Nagasaki nor Hiroshima. There is tons of studies documenting this.
                              "Science is not belief but the will to find out." ~ Anonymous
                              "Culture of the mind must be subservient to the heart." ~ Gandhi
                              "The flogging will continue until morale improves." ~ Unknown

                              Comment


                              • Manuka, Kanuka honeys &/or zinc carnosinate for curing Ulcers

                                Another form of zinc, zinc carnosinate will help treat the dangerous bacteria H. pylori that commonly infests the lower intestine of individuals with low stomach acid.

                                References
                                Ciacci, C., Sabbatini, F., et al. H. Pylori Impairs Iron Absorption in Infected Individuals. Digestive Liver Disorders. 2004. 36(7), 455-460.

                                Kirchhoff, P. Socrates, T., et al. Zinc Salts Provide a Novel, Prolonged and Rapid Inhibition of Gastric Acid Secretion. American Journal of Gastroenterology. 2011. 106(1), 62-70.

                                Tennant, S., Hartland, E., et al. Influence of Gastric Acid on Susceptibility to Infection with Ingested Bacterial Pathogens. Infection and Immunity. 2008. 76(2), 639-645.
                                "Science is not belief but the will to find out." ~ Anonymous
                                "Culture of the mind must be subservient to the heart." ~ Gandhi
                                "The flogging will continue until morale improves." ~ Unknown

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