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  • I would vote for deletion. The reason why paleobird, breadsauce, cori and several others were needed here was to provide some desperately needed balance. Calling them trolls for providing that necessary balance is just another example of how far out of whack this thread has gotten.

    The thing that concerns me where this thread has gone is that it's essentially a health forum and many people come here in a desperate state of mind looking for answers. Those folk are the one's that really require the "trolls" to come in here and point out that there is some potential danger to what is being represented with Iodine in this thread. This thread runs counter in my mind to Mark's measured, researched and balanced approach and really paints the entire forum in a bad light. Whack this thread and since Grizz etc. are leaving (yeah right) for the curezone utopia, perhaps a more sensible and balanced iodine thread can get going and stand on its own.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Raiken3712 View Post
      I'm with the eat whole food to get your Iodine camp. When you eat whole foods its easier to not overdose.
      BG 5: PARADIGM DRIFTS PARADIGM SHIFTS: EPI-PALEO? - Jack Kruse
      BRAIN GUT 6: EPI-PALEO Rx - Jack Kruse
      Recommendation is a pound a day of seafood. A mix of raw and cooked preferred. A pound a day shouldn't be too much Iodine but it should be plenty for anyone.
      I read those pages from Kruse... I'm not a particular Kruse fan, but sea foods make sense on their own as they are great sources of many nutrients that are quite low in land animals and plants.
      What I got out of those pages was 1/2lb 3-5 days a week... plus Sea veg.

      That said I haven't been well, and since I find his writing style to be pretty awful (LOL, it kind of is), I may need to go back and re-read.
      Also, I am currently on a severely sodium restricted diet (sodium makes me extremely sick)... sea food and sea veg is only an occasional indulgence ATM.
      Hopefully I'll get that straightened out soon, I really prefer to have MUCH more sea foods in my diet.
      “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.”
      ~Friedrich Nietzsche
      And that's why I'm here eating HFLC Primal/Paleo.

      Comment


      • He really needs to edit posts when people point out that they are wrong....in the comments section someone says he made a conversion error it was supposed to be .5 kg which equals about 1 lb. I'll admit his writing style sucks at times...but I think the information is mostly good. I'm not sure sodium in seafood...if not processed seafood would cause you issues?

        Maybe you have already tried eating more seafood and had issues? I'm just wondering because from what I've heard people using table salt can have issues while those using unrefined salt like Real Salt, Celtic Sea Salt, Or Himalalyan. Salt when unrefined has trace minerals and things...its not just the Sodium Chloride. Salt when in the natural body of a fish may not cause issues that too much processed sodium/salt would.

        That being said....you should take any changes slow even if this may apply. What kind of doctor are you seeing?
        Paleo Physicians Network
        I like this list of doctors as they believe in Paleo and are holistic...are supposed to be people who look for causes of symptoms and deal with them rather than just treating symptoms.

        Also if you have eaten more seafood and the issue caused sickness...due to too much sodium...was the fish processed at all? I got a pre-seasoned bag of Salmon and it contained Canola oil and spices.....spices could mean MSG or salt or whatever and if they used salt it was refined for sure. So even if you get fish you have to watch for added refined salt.
        Last edited by Raiken3712; 07-30-2012, 10:50 AM.
        Age: 28
        Height: 6'1"
        Primal start date: July 1st 2011
        Start Weight: 275
        Current Weight: 248
        Stats below as of September 1st 2011 Tested via BodPod
        Body Fat 25.4%
        Fat Mass 63.721
        Fat Free Mass 74.6%
        Fat Free Mass 187.087
        Goal weight: 180-200 lbs(Recommended weight is around 180 for my height but that sounds low)
        Total lost so far: 27 lbs

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Raiken3712 View Post
          He really needs to edit posts when people point out that they are wrong....in the comments section someone says he made a conversion error it was supposed to be .5 kg which equals about 1 lb. I'll admit his writing style sucks at times...but I think the information is mostly good. I'm not sure sodium in seafood...if not processed seafood would cause you issues?

          Maybe you have already tried eating more seafood and had issues? I'm just wondering because from what I've heard people using table salt can have issues while those using unrefined salt like Real Salt, Celtic Sea Salt, Or Himalalyan. Salt when unrefined has trace minerals and things...its not just the Sodium Chloride. Salt when in the natural body of a fish may not cause issues that too much processed sodium/salt would.

          That being said....you should take any changes slow even if this may apply. What kind of doctor are you seeing?
          Paleo Physicians Network
          I like this list of doctors as they believe in Paleo and are holistic...are supposed to be people who look for causes of symptoms and deal with them rather than just treating symptoms.

          Also if you have eaten more seafood and the issue caused sickness...due to too much sodium...was the fish processed at all? I got a pre-seasoned bag of Salmon and it contained Canola oil and spices.....spices could mean MSG or salt or whatever and if they used salt it was refined for sure. So even if you get fish you have to watch for added refined salt.
          I have a serious brain pressure problem... any type of sodium causes fluid retention producing major problems.
          The biggest seafood issue is with mollusks and crustaceans... those are just naturally higher in sodium even if you can find them completely unprocessed (Which is darn near impossible for shrimp, scallops, and squid, much to my dismay.)

          Fish isn't such a problem since I'm in FL and can get fresh, wild caught, pretty easily... but due to the medical problems I cannot drive... so I don't get to the fresh fish market very often.
          Sea veg are also naturally high in sodium...

          As far as salt types... all salt is sodium chloride, some just has the benefit of having the extra minerals in it, and leaving out silly the additives.
          For the tiny, minimal about of salt that I do use... not much as I get most of my sodium intake naturally from food... I do use either Pink Himalayan or Grey sea salt. I only use that if my daily intake from foods is very low... and then only a very small pinch.
          I'm not supposed to consume any other type of sodium either such as baking soda, msg, etc.

          I have to be very careful to not eat anything pre-seasoned and packaged, or "dipped" as they do with seafood (sodium tripolyphosphate).

          Hopefully I will get it resolved soon... I've been at this a year, been to some crappy docs, but have some good ones now... and will probably have a corrective surgery soon. (Just saw my Neurosurgeon today.)
          After that... I'm hoping my plate will be more open to the stuff I really want to eat! Fresh seafood has been sorely missed by me for a while now.

          I also think that getting more iodine from natural foods makes sense... if you eat seafoods and sea veg there is no need to take a bunch of supplements along with the Iodine... it's already in there!

          Right now, since I have such a low salt intake and low seafood intake (basically zero iodine source in my diet) I supplement a moderately low amount of Lugols. 1, sometimes 2 drops of 5% Lugols per week in water that I take a little swig of daily. Mostly one drop per week... but on occasion two drops have landed in the cup because I'm unsteady and I just went with it.
          “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.”
          ~Friedrich Nietzsche
          And that's why I'm here eating HFLC Primal/Paleo.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Grizz View Post
            YES ! IMO, 1.5mg more a week is a lot of iodine if you are extremely toxic. You might want to increase your daily salt intake and your salt flushing intervals. I have just discovered this valuable information re: Why salt flushes out bromides. You might want to study this in depth to see if it will help you.
            - - - If you can’t tolerate salt, then mix it into Lemonade

            I would slow it down to adding 1.5mg per month, or pulse dosing with the salt flush whenever you notice a problem.

            Grizz
            Thanks, Grizz. I did some experimentation, and took 2 non-consecutive days this week off of iodine. The next days (Thursday and Sunday, respectively), my innate contentment was back! So I am back to the level that I was increasing before for the last 2 months - an 8th of a drop a week. I felt GREAT the whole time that I was maintaining that level of increase. I thought I could step it up a little bit now that I finally made it to 1 whole drop, but I guess not. I'd rather take it slow and have my mood be stable than try to ramp up more quickly. Maybe in a few months when I've detoxed out some more toxins I'll be able to increase a bit more quickly, but obviously not now!

            Thanks for the link about the salt, I'll give it a read! Luckily I have no issues with drinking salt water. I used to do the Master Cleanse, which called for a salt water flush every morning! That's 32 oz. of water with 2 tsp. of salt! What's recommended for supplementing with iodine is nothing compared to that!

            One question I had though - the only info. I can find about salt supplementation on the breastcancerchoices.org site is for the salt flush protocol - 1/4 tsp. of salt in 1/2 cup of warm water, followed by 12-16 ounces of water. Is this what's recommended for daily salt intake as well?

            Comment


            • Anyone that says all salt is the same really doesn't know what is in "salt" particularly "table salt".

              "Table salt" includes generous quantities of processed fillers such as dextrose or silicon dioxide for anti-caking agents. If you are lucky. Some salt comes with a anti-caking agent derived from, containing, cyanide.

              Comment


              • @cori93437 I'm glad you've found some good doctors than as tons out there are sadly either just interested in money or don't have a clue about what the causes are and don't know how to find out so they just give you a pill. Good luck.
                Age: 28
                Height: 6'1"
                Primal start date: July 1st 2011
                Start Weight: 275
                Current Weight: 248
                Stats below as of September 1st 2011 Tested via BodPod
                Body Fat 25.4%
                Fat Mass 63.721
                Fat Free Mass 74.6%
                Fat Free Mass 187.087
                Goal weight: 180-200 lbs(Recommended weight is around 180 for my height but that sounds low)
                Total lost so far: 27 lbs

                Comment


                • Originally posted by wildwabbit View Post
                  Anyone that says all salt is the same really doesn't know what is in "salt" particularly "table salt".

                  "Table salt" includes generous quantities of processed fillers such as dextrose or silicon dioxide for anti-caking agents. If you are lucky. Some salt comes with a anti-caking agent derived from, containing, cyanide.
                  As far as salt types... all salt is sodium chloride, some just has the benefit of having the extra minerals in it, and leaving out silly the additives.
                  That would be natural Pink or Sea salts with "the benefit of having minerals", and processed table salt with "silly [] additives" that the natural salts leave out....

                  So I already said what you said to correct me, but thanks.


                  Originally posted by Raiken3712 View Post
                  @cori93437 I'm glad you've found some good doctors than as tons out there are sadly either just interested in money or don't have a clue about what the causes are and don't know how to find out so they just give you a pill. Good luck.
                  Thanks...
                  Believe me, I had a few that seriously just looked at me blankly, said "I really don't know, but hey... try these pills".
                  When that happened I immediately fired them and found a new doctor. It took a few of those before I found some docs who were really interested in putting the puzzle pieces together. They diagnosed me pretty quickly and are seeking a good solution that returns my quality of life.
                  Last edited by cori93437; 07-30-2012, 11:49 AM.
                  “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.”
                  ~Friedrich Nietzsche
                  And that's why I'm here eating HFLC Primal/Paleo.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by wildwabbit View Post
                    Anyone that says all salt is the same really doesn't know what is in "salt" particularly "table salt".

                    "Table salt" includes generous quantities of processed fillers such as dextrose or silicon dioxide for anti-caking agents. If you are lucky. Some salt comes with a anti-caking agent derived from, containing, cyanide.
                    I don't think he would be using Himalayan salt if he wasn't aware its not "the same" I think he was referring to the fact that it still has a good amount of sodium which is what his main issue is with seafood and in particular Shellfish in his uncommon or unique case. I can see where someone could have a unique or uncommon problem that may not be the same as others.

                    I've heard some had issues with blood pressure with regular table salt and no problem at all with Real Salt but that may not apply to everyone in every instance. If you think you have a good doctor than its best to stick with it for now. Hopefully that surgery will turn out well and you can eat your fill of good seafood after.
                    Age: 28
                    Height: 6'1"
                    Primal start date: July 1st 2011
                    Start Weight: 275
                    Current Weight: 248
                    Stats below as of September 1st 2011 Tested via BodPod
                    Body Fat 25.4%
                    Fat Mass 63.721
                    Fat Free Mass 74.6%
                    Fat Free Mass 187.087
                    Goal weight: 180-200 lbs(Recommended weight is around 180 for my height but that sounds low)
                    Total lost so far: 27 lbs

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by cori93437 View Post
                      As far as salt types... all salt is sodium chloride, some just has the benefit of having the extra minerals in it, and leaving out silly the additives.
                      That would be natural Pink or Sea salts with "the benefit of having minerals", and processed table salt with "silly [] additives" that the natural salts leave out....

                      So I already said what you said to correct me, but thanks.
                      Lol I didn't even think to point out that you mentioned how table salt is different in your own post...oh well.
                      Age: 28
                      Height: 6'1"
                      Primal start date: July 1st 2011
                      Start Weight: 275
                      Current Weight: 248
                      Stats below as of September 1st 2011 Tested via BodPod
                      Body Fat 25.4%
                      Fat Mass 63.721
                      Fat Free Mass 74.6%
                      Fat Free Mass 187.087
                      Goal weight: 180-200 lbs(Recommended weight is around 180 for my height but that sounds low)
                      Total lost so far: 27 lbs

                      Comment


                      • Before anyone deletes the thread, I MUST comment on this:

                        Originally posted by Grizz View Post
                        I have a better idea. All of us who are serious about iodine move over to the Curezone. The moderators over there will NOT tolerate Trolls. They get kicked off the board on their 1st whiney, Grizz
                        I find this extremely disturbing. EXTREMELY.

                        What if someone on Curezone tried an N=1 iodine protocol, and for some reason it didn't work for them, and they came back and say it didn't work? Would Curezone call them a "troll" and ban them? (Because, Grizz, this is exactly what you are threatening here.)

                        If that's what they do, then no wonder Curezone is full of success stories... because they filter out all the failures! Purposely hiding negative results, and then claiming that the positive results are "research," is dangerous, immoral, and possibly illegal. Haven't Pharma companies been sued for stuff like this?

                        Based on this comment alone, Curezone cannot be trusted.

                        Nor am I sure that putting in the disclaimer to take supplements -- as Grizz often does -- is sufficient.
                        5'0" female, 45 years old. Started Primal October 31, 2011, at a skinny fat 111.5 lbs. Low weight: 99.5 lb on a fast. Gained back to 115(!) on SAD chocolate, potato chips, and stress. Currently 111.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by cori93437 View Post
                          As far as salt types... all salt is sodium chloride, some just has the benefit of having the extra minerals in it, and leaving out silly the additives.
                          Well if you really want to play at nit picking...

                          "salt" is a chemical term that includes way more than NaCL. KCl and MgCl are also "salt".
                          If you refer to "table salt" it is still inaccurate to merely talk about the "NaCl" portion because of all the other crap in it DOES have an impact on people. In fact, people need to be thinking about just how those fillers affect them. Granted some people are truly sensitive to NaCl, but others are sensitive to the fillers.

                          You can't leave the fillers out of the discussion as if they don't matter. They are "processed" crap that affects the body.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Raiken3712 View Post
                            Lol I didn't even think to point out that you mentioned how table salt is different in your own post...oh well.
                            Note that Cori says "sodium," not salt. Note the the medical journal article says "sodium intake," not salt.
                            They know that there is confusion in the vocabulary. So, again, I ask you: Are you referring to the "salt" as in the chemical formula NaCl, or the common usage of "salt" as the mixture of stuff evaporated from the ocean?

                            Apparently the magic hoo-ha sea salters have real trouble with this. But until you make that distinction, your salt posts cannot be trusted.

                            Wildwabbit, if you really want to be play at nitpicking, the chemical term "salt" refers to ANY nonorganic ionic compound, where the ions could be atomic or compounds. For example, magnesium nitrate is chemically, a salt. It doesn't have to be a chloride or even a halide. (I didn't want to get that detailed in the discussion.)

                            I am NOT asking that you leave the fillers out! I am asking that you actually USE to term "filler," or "mineral" or "dextrose," or "NaCl." If the fillers are causing problem, fine. But SAY that "the fillers IN Morton salt" are causing problems. Don't say just "salt." Salt is a MIXTURE, and we don't know which component in the mixture that you are referring to.
                            Last edited by oxide; 07-30-2012, 12:07 PM.
                            5'0" female, 45 years old. Started Primal October 31, 2011, at a skinny fat 111.5 lbs. Low weight: 99.5 lb on a fast. Gained back to 115(!) on SAD chocolate, potato chips, and stress. Currently 111.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by joe2.0 View Post
                              I would vote for deletion. The reason why paleobird, breadsauce, cori and several others were needed here was to provide some desperately needed balance. Calling them trolls for providing that necessary balance is just another example of how far out of whack this thread has gone.
                              Why in the world would you want this thread deleted? There is a lot of good info here. I am not against intelligent discussion of any dangers if iodine, but the above mentioned people have not provided it. They have been sarcastic and vitriolic, with no respect for someone of a different point of view. I happen to be of the belief that conventional medicine has failed us, and we must try something different. This whole forum is about the same thing. Does Mark think grains in moderation are healthy? That's what most doctors believe. Mark goes against conventional wisdom on a regular basis. As Grizz has said over and over, there is no consensus on iodine. We are our own guinea pigs. We know that much higher levels of iodine were ingested in the past, and doctors used iodine much more freely to cure ailments and prevent infection before antibiotics. And we now are injesting much more bromine and fluoride than people did a century ago. Upping the amount of iodine we take above the RDA is not a crackpot idea.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Happy Paleo Girl View Post
                                Thanks, Grizz. I did some experimentation, and took 2 non-consecutive days this week off of iodine. The next days (Thursday and Sunday, respectively), my innate contentment was back! So I am back to the level that I was increasing before for the last 2 months - an 8th of a drop a week. I felt GREAT the whole time that I was maintaining that level of increase. I thought I could step it up a little bit now that I finally made it to 1 whole drop, but I guess not. I'd rather take it slow and have my mood be stable than try to ramp up more quickly. Maybe in a few months when I've detoxed out some more toxins I'll be able to increase a bit more quickly, but obviously not now!

                                Thanks for the link about the salt, I'll give it a read! Luckily I have no issues with drinking salt water. I used to do the Master Cleanse, which called for a salt water flush every morning! That's 32 oz. of water with 2 tsp. of salt! What's recommended for supplementing with iodine is nothing compared to that!

                                One question I had though - the only info. I can find about salt supplementation on the breastcancerchoices.org site is for the salt flush protocol - 1/4 tsp. of salt in 1/2 cup of warm water, followed by 12-16 ounces of water. Is this what's recommended for daily salt intake as well?
                                HappyPaleoGirl,

                                I am thrilled this is working for you !

                                Yes the Dr. Brownstein protocol calls for he following:
                                - - ˝ tsp Natural Celtic Salt, Himalayan Pink Salt, Redmonds Salt or Hawaiin black salt
                                - - - If the sea salt is pure white, it is unacceptable (minerals have been stripped out )
                                - - 200 mcg selenium (L-selenomethionine preferred)
                                - - 400 mg Magnesium - Glycinate preferred
                                - - 2,000mg Vitamin C - Ester-C preferred - do not take with iodine
                                - - ATP Cofactors caplet contains both 100mg B2 & 500mg B3 non-flushing in the correct ratio. Take 1/2 caplet with iodine up to 25mg, then one caplet for each 50 mg iodine,

                                In addition, the following:
                                * In addition to the daily ˝ teaspoon of natural sea salt taken with vitamins every day, if severe detox symptoms occur, we should also do the Salt Loading Protocol “Salt Flush.”
                                ˝ tsp of Natural Sea Salt is dissolved in 1/2 cup warm water, followed immediately with 12-16 oz pure water. Repeat every 30-45 minutes until copious urination begins.
                                * Repeat each day for up to 3 days if required to clear detox symptoms
                                * or go back to a lower dose that was problem free and pulse dose.
                                * Why the salt flush ? ?
                                Pulse Dosing to clear the kidneys

                                Pulse dosing of iodine has often helped our participants with detox symptoms: taking a 48 hour break from iodine supplementation as needed seems to enhance the kidneys' ability to excrete bromide and other toxins.

                                Complete details here:
                                http://tinyurl.com/iodine-references

                                PS) BEWARE OF FLUORIDATED SALT ! Read the labels.
                                The powers that be are not content fluoridating water, toothpaste, bottled water, baby water, and a slew of priducts. Now they are adding fluoride to salt.
                                A Pinch of Fluoride in Salt?
                                http://dutchpatriot.wordpress.com/20...to-table-salt/

                                PS) You ( and other members ) can reach me for further questions at my new address at the Curezone.
                                Iodine Supplementation Support Forum by VWT Team, Page 265, Vulcanel, Wombat & Trapper/kcmo:
                                I am no longer posting research here at MDA.

                                Grizz
                                Last edited by Grizz; 07-30-2012, 12:22 PM.

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