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  • Originally posted by cori93437 View Post
    Echoing a thanks to Breadsauce for that K recommendation ... I don't have any yet and have been reading diligently... that sounds like a very good one. All the K bases covered.

    For D I use the Carlson D3 drops 4000iu per drop, also good stuff.
    I get zero sun... seriously, zero...for several reasons. It's been that way for a year now.
    And prior to that I was very careful of sun exposure due to pale skin and the intensity of the rays here in FL... especially on the water where I got most of my exposure.
    I take one drop lots of days. Some days I forget. Other days I'll take a couple of drops.
    Yep, I ordered it.LOL! I ordered all the things on the list. Gotta love Amazon's 1-click option. I will have K running out my ears!

    Comment


    • [QUOTE=Owly;911303]There's actually quite a bit of research (and I mean real scientific research, not forum posts or random websites) that illustrates significant risks from chronically elevated iodine doses. While iodine deficiency is not good either, it's a case where while some is beneficial, more is not necessarily so. I'm concerned when people say things like "well, I take a lot of it and feel fine" because long-term toxicity can take a while to emerge.

      I'm not telling people they shouldn't take iodine--I realize that there are reasons to supplement, and I've read some compelling evidence in credible journals for moderate supplementation particularly for those who don't use iodized salt or consume seafood/seaweed regularly. But it is vitally important to be aware that taking too much of something beneficial can become harmful. Long-term high doses of iodine may cause significant and potentially irreversible health problems, including permanent damage to the thyroid. endquote

      OK, I've only checked a couple of those quoted; so if my conclusions are offbase, point me again. However, the 2nd source listed compared kids of various ages from 5 continents including Japan. After going through the blahblah, I have some reservations with their conclusions. Quote: Conclusions: Chronic iodine intakes approximately twice those recommended—indicated by UI concentrations in the range of 300–500 μg/L—do not increase Tvol in children. However, UI concentrations ≥500 μg/L are associated with increasing Tvol, which reflects the adverse effects of chronic iodine excess.Endquote:

      OK, fine, but where are the goiter statistics? Supposedly high thyroid induces goiters. It is my understanding that LOW thyroid actions produce goiters. All I read is that they tested, arrived at a figure, and tell us to believe them. Surely the Japanese kids should have had the highest ratios and chronic iodine poisoning. That's not what they said. And the first quoted source had this to say: Quote:
      All animal species appear to have a wide margin of safety for excess I consumption. Dietary I levels of 500 to 1000 times the minimal dietary required level are generally well tolerated in rats, pigs, chickens, and ruminant animals (10). Among the species studied, horses seem to be most susceptible to I toxicity. Chronic consumption of diets with high levels of I, for example, kelp consumption by horses, markedly reduces organic binding of I by the thyroid gland, resulting in goiter in the offspring of mares (10).

      Studies by Arrington et al. (13, 14), Ammerman et al. (15), Wilgus et al. (16), and Newton and Clawson (17) in rabbits, hamsters, rats, pigs, and chickens suggest that rats, hamsters, pigs, and chickens can tolerate dietary I levels up to 500 mg/kg, but rabbits experience serious mortality in offspring when 250 mg/kg is fed to the dam in late gestation. Endquote.
      Finally I understand why rabbits aren't fed seaweed. But look at the sheer quantities involved for other animals -500 to 1000 times the RDA. Note that rats nd pigs, our closest animal models , tolerated 500 mg/kg. What? So an 80 kg person under that regime should be able to tolerate (80x500mg)= 4000 mg daily. And NOBODY is getting anywhere near those amounts, AFAIK.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Grizz View Post
        I think the Nit Pickers are all LIBERALS. The Hallmark of a LIBERAL is they demand that everyone do it THEIR way.
        Grizz
        So this doesn't qualify as a demand to do iodine in a certain way?

        [QUOTE = Lunatic = Grizz]
        Breadsauce,
        You are free to do it any way you want at your own peril. We choose to follow the Dr. Brownstein Protocol because each supplement in the protocol has very specific reasons for being there and many thousands of patients have proven out the safety of his protocol.

        So, bottom line, If you don't want to follow the Dr. Brownstein procedures exactly, then just go ahead & do it YOUR way. Don't come into this thread CRYING if you get a THYROID STORM, a trip to the EMERGENCY ROOM, 30 lbs of BLOAT, or a face FULL OF ZITS. We will be LAUGHING at you for being so stubborn. Bwahahahaha - Mwahahahaha
        So go right ahead and do it YOUR way and let us know how it works out for you. We like to watch Guinea Pigs do our testing for us. Then WHO will be the irresponsible one ??

        Grizz [/QUOTE]

        Sounds like a demand to do things in a certain way to me.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by breadsauce View Post
          And what is this constant "Kapish??" Speaka the Englisha!
          It's slang for the Italian word capisce, which means "understand". You see it used by Mafia Dons in movies. I imagine Grizz thinks it adds authority to what he says.
          LastBottleWines

          Comment


          • [QUOTE=Paysan;911880]
            Originally posted by Owly View Post
            There's actually quite a bit of research (and I mean real scientific research, not forum posts or random websites) that illustrates significant risks from chronically elevated iodine doses. While iodine deficiency is not good either, it's a case where while some is beneficial, more is not necessarily so. I'm concerned when people say things like "well, I take a lot of it and feel fine" because long-term toxicity can take a while to emerge.

            I'm not telling people they shouldn't take iodine--I realize that there are reasons to supplement, and I've read some compelling evidence in credible journals for moderate supplementation particularly for those who don't use iodized salt or consume seafood/seaweed regularly. But it is vitally important to be aware that taking too much of something beneficial can become harmful. Long-term high doses of iodine may cause significant and potentially irreversible health problems, including permanent damage to the thyroid. endquote

            OK, I've only checked a couple of those quoted; so if my conclusions are offbase, point me again. However, the 2nd source listed compared kids of various ages from 5 continents including Japan. After going through the blahblah, I have some reservations with their conclusions. Quote: Conclusions: Chronic iodine intakes approximately twice those recommended—indicated by UI concentrations in the range of 300–500 μg/L—do not increase Tvol in children. However, UI concentrations ≥500 μg/L are associated with increasing Tvol, which reflects the adverse effects of chronic iodine excess.Endquote:

            OK, fine, but where are the goiter statistics? Supposedly high thyroid induces goiters. It is my understanding that LOW thyroid actions produce goiters. All I read is that they tested, arrived at a figure, and tell us to believe them. Surely the Japanese kids should have had the highest ratios and chronic iodine poisoning. That's not what they said. And the first quoted source had this to say: Quote:
            All animal species appear to have a wide margin of safety for excess I consumption. Dietary I levels of 500 to 1000 times the minimal dietary required level are generally well tolerated in rats, pigs, chickens, and ruminant animals (10). Among the species studied, horses seem to be most susceptible to I toxicity. Chronic consumption of diets with high levels of I, for example, kelp consumption by horses, markedly reduces organic binding of I by the thyroid gland, resulting in goiter in the offspring of mares (10).

            Studies by Arrington et al. (13, 14), Ammerman et al. (15), Wilgus et al. (16), and Newton and Clawson (17) in rabbits, hamsters, rats, pigs, and chickens suggest that rats, hamsters, pigs, and chickens can tolerate dietary I levels up to 500 mg/kg, but rabbits experience serious mortality in offspring when 250 mg/kg is fed to the dam in late gestation. Endquote.
            Finally I understand why rabbits aren't fed seaweed. But look at the sheer quantities involved for other animals -500 to 1000 times the RDA. Note that rats nd pigs, our closest animal models , tolerated 500 mg/kg. What? So an 80 kg person under that regime should be able to tolerate (80x500mg)= 4000 mg daily. And NOBODY is getting anywhere near those amounts, AFAIK.
            I'd suggest reading further down the first study to the human toxicity section (Iodine Toxicity and Its Amelioration

            "Well over half of adult I goiter patients have been found to ingest inorganic I for a prolonged period, with daily amounts ranging from 18 mg to 1 g (6). Withdrawal of I in these people usually produces a return to the euthyroid condition, and reintroduction of KI generally causes both goiter and hypothyroidism to reappear within 3 weeks (29, 30). Wolff (6) concluded that the relatively rapid reappearance of goiter after reintroduction of I therapy may be the most conclusive test of whether the goiter was, in fact, caused by excess I ingestion. "

            And:

            "A daily I intake of 10 times (i.e., 1.5 mg/day) the minimum daily adult requirement of 0.15 mg/d may cause I goiter in some people (6)."

            For the study of the Japanese children, please see the discussion section of the full text for a more in-depth explanation (High thyroid volume in children with excess dietary iodine intakes).

            Goiter simply means an enlarged thyroid, which may occur in hyperthyroidism or hypothyroidism.
            “If I didn't define myself for myself, I would be crunched into other people's fantasies for me and eaten alive.” --Audre Lorde

            Owly's Journal

            Comment


            • Originally posted by marcadav View Post
              thyroidmanager.org disagrees with your statement:
              The Iodine Deficiency Disorders – Thyroid Disease Manager
              So, what does this say from above source? Quote: t thus appears that IIH can be considered one of the iodine deficiency disorders, and it may be largely unavoidable in the early phase of iodine repletion in iodine deficient populations, particularly in those with moderate to severe iodine deficiency. Its incidence reverts to normal or even below normal after one to ten years of iodine supplementation (196).
              I read that as a lot of iodine all at once in iodine deprived individuals can cause havoc until iodine sufficiency (over 10 years) is obtained. As for the rest of the article, it's mainly talking about autoimmune thyroiditis, with effects occuring mainly in PREVIOUSLY IODINE DEFICIENT subjects. Hmmmm. Then it discusses cancer. And I do understand their overall conclusions: Quote: . The frequency of cytologically diagnosed chronic thyroiditis increased from 1.5 to 5.7% (214). Overall, it appears that correction of iodine deficiency decreases the risk of, and the morbidity from, thyroid cancer.

              Thus, the benefits of correcting iodine deficiency far outweigh its risks (215, 216). Iodine-induced hyperthyroidism and other adverse effects can be almost entirely avoided by adequate and sustained quality assurance and monitoring of iodine supplementation which should also confirm adequate iodine intake. Endquote.

              I guess the only real bone of contention here are the amounts given. (10 years to recover from deficiency and let iodine supplementation settle into acceptable levels??? I'm sorry, but I doubt if I can spare a decade at my age.)

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Pamsc View Post
                I haven't looked at all of these, but those I looked at don't leave me overly concerned. Many involve much more dangerous forms of iodine, like amiodarone. Others involve iodine causing (or exacerbating) autoimmune thyroid damage, which we know can happen if you take iodine without selenium. The Peace Corps workers were in Niger, which a quick google search suggests is an area of low selenium.
                Talking about dangerous forms of iodine, look what's happening in Fukashima now: quote:
                Accordingly, how can anyone estimate long term health effects when actual exposure rates are unknown?

                That said, scientists do have a well defined test group – the population of Fukushima Prefecture surrounding the stricken NPP.

                And the sixth report of the Fukushima Prefecture Health Management Survey, which was released in April, revealed after the survey examined 38,114 local children that 36 percent of Fukushima children have abnormal thyroid growths.

                The Fukushima Prefecture Health Management Survey revealed that 13,460 children, or 35.3 percent, had thyroid cysts or nodules up to 0.197 inches long growing on their thyroids and 0.5 percent of the children had growths larger than 0.197 inches. Endquote Radioactive iodine, anyone? from Oilprice.com
                Last edited by Paysan; 07-25-2012, 05:04 PM. Reason: add'l info

                Comment


                • [QUOTE=Owly;911897]
                  Originally posted by Paysan View Post

                  I'd suggest reading further down the first study to the human toxicity section (Iodine Toxicity and Its Amelioration

                  "Well over half of adult I goiter patients have been found to ingest inorganic I for a prolonged period, with daily amounts ranging from 18 mg to 1 g (6). Withdrawal of I in these people usually produces a return to the euthyroid condition, and reintroduction of KI generally causes both goiter and hypothyroidism to reappear within 3 weeks (29, 30). Wolff (6) concluded that the relatively rapid reappearance of goiter after reintroduction of I therapy may be the most conclusive test of whether the goiter was, in fact, caused by excess I ingestion. "

                  And:

                  "A daily I intake of 10 times (i.e., 1.5 mg/day) the minimum daily adult requirement of 0.15 mg/d may cause I goiter in some people (6)."

                  For the study of the Japanese children, please see the discussion section of the full text for a more in-depth explanation (High thyroid volume in children with excess dietary iodine intakes).

                  Goiter simply means an enlarged thyroid, which may occur in hyperthyroidism or hypothyroidism.
                  The Wolff-Chaikoff effect was first postulated in 1948. Since then, there have been numerous studies, including this one from Endocrinology 1999, that show the effect is transient. In this article, titled "Escape from Wolff-Chaikoff, here are their conclusions: Quote: Hashimoto’s
                  thyroiditis (19).
                  In summary, we have shown that excess iodide, given to
                  rats, chronically or acutely decreases both thyroid NIS
                  mRNA and protein. Our findings are consistent with the
                  hypothesis that the escape from the Wolff-Chaikoff effect is
                  caused by a down-regulation of the NIS, resulting in decreased
                  iodide transport into the thyroid. This would then
                  lower the intrathyroidal iodine below a critical threshold and
                  would allow organification to resume. The decrease in NIS
                  is likely to be, at least in part, transcriptional. In addition, we
                  have also found that excess iodide decreases TPOmRNAand
                  that this decrease may contribute to iodide-induced hypothyroidism
                  commonly seen in patients with Hashimotos’s
                  thyroiditis. Endquote

                  I dunno, seems like the hypothesis doesn't stand up to experimentation, and that the rats would have recovered in 6 days even with excess iodide (not simply iodine.) And on my ramblings, I read that one doctor never sees any problems arising with 9 drops iodine or less daily. Nor was I able to discern whether this was 2 or 5% Lugols. Nevertheless, I have scaled back my iodine intake to control detox symptoms.

                  Comment


                  • Thanks for the Seasnax tip, PaleoBird. I've recently gotten hooked on the Trader Joe's seaweed snacks but I didn't feel totally good about it because I believe they use an offensive oil for roasting. I will be ordering some of these!

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Knifegill View Post
                      I have fluoride-free toothpaste (available at any Super Supplements), and I do not drink tap water. I drive to the well to fill my 14 5 gallon bottles every month. And I do not ingest any bromide, either. THAT is the solution. Stop the poisoning and - amazingly - you stop needing an antidote. Imagine that!
                      Interestingly, at least one of the celtic sea salts I looked at lately listed bromide in the list of minerals it contained.
                      Argue not with idiots, lest they drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Grizz View Post
                        I think the Nit Pickers are all LIBERALS. The Hallmark of a LIBERAL is they demand that everyone do it THEIR way.
                        For example, the conservative who doesn't like guns just doesn't buy a gun.
                        The LIBERALS demand gun laws to prevent anyone from buying a gun.

                        Conservatives who don't like Big Gulp Sugary drinks just don't drink them.
                        Liberals pas laws to prevent EVERYONE from drinking Big Gulp Sugary drinks.

                        Conservatives who don't like iodine just don't take it.
                        Liberals try to outlaw iodine so NO ONE can have it.
                        The Liberal/Conservative divide is a false dichotomy which doesn't really help anyone. It fosters stereotypes that help political parties to hide behind labels while acting in ways that are harmful to most of those who voted for them, and causes needless divisions amongst those who should have common cause.
                        Argue not with idiots, lest they drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Sceptic View Post
                          The Liberal/Conservative divide is a false dichotomy which doesn't really help anyone. It fosters stereotypes that help political parties to hide behind labels while acting in ways that are harmful to most of those who voted for them, and causes needless divisions amongst those who should have common cause.
                          Well said.
                          LastBottleWines

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Sceptic View Post
                            Interestingly, at least one of the celtic sea salts I looked at lately listed bromide in the list of minerals it contained.
                            That's because bromide is one of the minerals found naturally in seawater.

                            Seawater - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
                            “If I didn't define myself for myself, I would be crunched into other people's fantasies for me and eaten alive.” --Audre Lorde

                            Owly's Journal

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by sidewinder View Post
                              Thanks for the Seasnax tip, PaleoBird. I've recently gotten hooked on the Trader Joe's seaweed snacks but I didn't feel totally good about it because I believe they use an offensive oil for roasting. I will be ordering some of these!
                              They are so tasty. I got them from an online site called Netrition.com which also carries Sea Tangle brand kelp noodles. Three ingredients, kelp, water, and salt. I made some for dinner tonight. (pics on my journal momentarily)

                              Netrition.com also carries a lot of great coconut products and all at better prices than the local health food store. (No, I don't work for them.)

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
                                They are so tasty. I got them from an online site called Netrition.com which also carries Sea Tangle brand kelp noodles. Three ingredients, kelp, water, and salt. I made some for dinner tonight. (pics on my journal momentarily)

                                Netrition.com also carries a lot of great coconut products and all at better prices than the local health food store. (No, I don't work for them.)
                                Love the sound of Seasnax and Sea Tangle kelp noodles. Do you happen to know if they ship to the UK? I'd far prefer to eat sea veg than to take iodine sups...

                                Comment

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