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  • Originally posted by Grizz View Post
    Yes, excessive amounts of iodine simply pass through the body into urine.

    Grizz
    Iodine is a completely harmless substance?. So I can drink 5 bottles of iodine and it's totally fine it will just pass out in my urine with zero risk? Making reckless claims like that that could potentially influence newbies that could be reading this thread is pretty irresponsible, imo.

    I was talking about the evidence of safety long term on the effects of people taking daily mega-doses of iodine. Not what you think the immediate effects are. Or are people online meant to be Brownsteins guinea pigs?
    There's lots of things that can be harmless or even beneficial short term that could even cause things tumors or cancer 20 years down the line. I can understand people taking the risk in certain situations where they have nothing to lose and have exhausted all other options, but from threads I've seen you seem to be recommending high dose iodine to everyone for basically anything and everything.
    Last edited by Forgotmylastusername; 07-25-2012, 06:06 AM.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by onalark View Post
      Nevermind. Read something into your post that clearly wasn't there.

      Accept my apologies for being a bitch. Here, I baked you a coconut flour cake with iodine frosting.
      No problem, sweetie

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Forgotmylastusername View Post
        Iodine is a completely harmless substance?. So I can drink 5 bottles of iodine and it's totally fine it will just pass out in my urine with zero risk? Making reckless claims like that that could potentially influence newbies that could be reading this thread is pretty irresponsible, imo.

        I was talking about the evidence of safety long term on the effects of people taking daily mega-doses or iodine. Not what you think the immediate effects are. Or are people online meant to be Brownsteins guinea pigs?
        There's lots of things that can be harmless or even beneficial short term that could even cause things tumors or cancer 20 years down the line. I can understand people taking the risk in certain situations where they have nothing to lose and have exhausted all other options, but from threads I've seen you seem to be recommending it to everyone for basically everything.
        Here is a quote



        Are there safety concerns?Return to top
        Iodine is LIKELY SAFE for most people when taken by mouth at recommended amounts.

        Iodine can cause significant side effects in some people. Common side effects include nausea and stomach pain, runny nose, headache, metallic taste, and diarrhea.

        In sensitive people, iodine can cause side effects including swelling of the lips and face (angioedema), severe bleeding and bruising, fever, joint pain, lymph node enlargement, allergic reactions including hives, and death.

        Large amounts or long-term use of iodine are POSSIBLY UNSAFE. Adults should avoid prolonged use of doses higher than 1100 mcg per day (the upper tolerable limit, UL) without proper medical supervision. In children, doses should not exceed 200 mcg per day for children 1 to 3 years old, 300 mcg per day for children 4 to 8 years old, 600 mcg per day for children 9 to 13 years old, and 900 mcg per day for adolescents. These are the upper tolerable limits (UL).

        In both children and adults, there is concern that higher intake can increase the risk of side effects such as thyroid problems. Iodine in larger amounts can cause metallic taste, soreness of teeth and gums, burning in mouth and throat, increased saliva, throat inflammation, stomach upset, diarrhea, wasting, depression, skin problems, and many other side effects.

        from this site

        Iodine: MedlinePlus Supplements

        Another here


        “High-dose iodine therapy is of great value in some circumstances. We should not forget, however, that this treatment was abandoned in the past, because it caused many deaths from heart failure, as well as a long list of other side effects. The doses used then were higher than those currently being advocated. However, it is premature to assert that more modest doses do not cause more modest side effects.”

        from this site

        Orthoiodosupplementation. The Debate

        and this


        SIDE EFFECTS OF POTASSIUM IODIDE

        It is important to note that the potassium iodide only protects the thyroid. It does not prevent your body from absorbing radiation through other channels and will not protect from radiation damage to other parts of your body. Also, taking high doses of potassium iodide can have severe side effects on the body, the endocrine system, and could even damage the thyroid itself.

        It is my opinion that the current situation does not warrant dosing up on high levels of potassium iodide, as the side effects may outweigh the benefits. Please speak with your physician prior to taking any high dose iodine supplementation, especially if you are suffering from an autoimmune disease such as Hashimoto’s, as the iodine may actually cause a severe immune reaction and even destruction of the thyroid gland.


        from this site

        Nuclear Fallout and Potassium Iodide's Side Effects | Doctor Auer

        and these are just a few from dozens that appear if you google "harmful side effects of taking high doses of iodine"

        There are so many more - I don't have time to read them though.

        I believe iodine supplementation is fine for most people in small doses. Obviously, some on this thread have treated severe problems successfully with high doses, and I am extremely pleased for them. But I think for the overall healthy person, taking high doses is taking needless risks. I do supplement, but modestly and feel that there have been benefits. (A drop on a midge bite is great for removing the itch, too!)
        Last edited by breadsauce; 07-25-2012, 03:43 AM. Reason: spelling...

        Comment


        • Originally posted by breadsauce View Post
          Calls the veracity of her claims into question?? Have you READ her posts ? They are sound and based on science, on fact. You are saying, by default, that you prefer to support the claims which she is (rightly, in my opinion) questioning?
          You stated that correctly. I do question someone who really does not seem to do anything but offer her position. Now, I do not question her total information or the basis of her 'facts', but merely that she is verbose in putting her OWN opinion out there. When considered with her total number of posts, opinion must be considered as personal and not the total truth. Who knows, they may both be correct. The proper dose may be a variable. She is probably correct for her situation, living by the ocean, having eaten primarily a iodine rich, ocean diet, and reducing her exposure to halide toxins with a very clean primal lifestyle. I will bet, she would be found to be iodine sufficient.

          Grizz is also a prolific poster. He chimes in on many threads. I cannot say that is position is not without merits. He is from the American mid-west, as I am. We are both further from the ocean than the island you live on is wide. It is quite possible, that our iodine situation IS more dire.

          So in the end, we have two strong personalities, having a pissing match trying to make their opinions the prevalent one. Neither one seems to want to let the others opinion to be considered. As you are content to obtain your vitamins from your food, the original intent, I do not have the luxury of having a diet quite as diverse. I think it becomes most incumbent on any reader of this thread to consider both points of view and rationalize for themselves which way to add additional iodine to their diet, if at all.

          Grizz HAS done readers of this thread a service by unearthing other internet sources of iodine information. Because he has found the same opinion in quite a few different sources, he parrots that opinion. Paleobird seems to distrust anyone who has decided to monetize the knowledge they have spent considerable effort and/or resources to obtain. The classic distrust of a 'snake-oil' salesman. Typical of a trusting person, who was betrayed by unscrupulous salesperson or someone who is wary of capitalism.

          So both need to act as a less dominant 'opinionator.' Both need to be more civil and avoid snide remarks. I have warned Grizz both, publicly and by PM's, that his tone was sometimes a bit preachy. He corrects, then slips. I have not seen anyone make the same effort with Paleobird. So, I went to her statistics, which are easy to obtain, simply by clicking on her handle. Again, I call for decorum from all frequent posters on this thread.


          The old question, religion or science. One side seems to distrust the other. And it easily scoffs at the others ideas. The history of our planet has yet to be fully discovered and answered. We do not know for sure if there is a Deity. For those who believe, it is easy to use science in many explanations of how, when considering the why. The science only bunch, must be satisfied explaining the how and then attaching the why. I believe the main mechanism could definitely explain why our world is so deplete of iodine. It may be that it was concentrated by the seas all along and man was never meant to wander far his ocean roots. But man did wander and wander he did into many iodine poor regions of the globe. As a relatively recently civilized society, we personally will never know the true answer.

          Okay, I will climb down from my soapbox.

          LJ
          Learning the intricacies of healthy eating and nourishing my body the right way.
          I am not bald, that is a Vitamin D collector. Time to Grok and Roll!
          Eased into a primal diet starting at Christmas 2011. Goal weight - 205 started: 240 pounds waist 40, now 227 pounds and waist 38 Summer 2012 - weight =215 and waist is actually still 39"
          ljbprrfmof = LJ = Little John = John

          Comment


          • Originally posted by breadsauce View Post
            This is an opinion, or belief. Studies?
            Isn't the standard test for iodine sufficiency the 24 hour pee test?
            Learning the intricacies of healthy eating and nourishing my body the right way.
            I am not bald, that is a Vitamin D collector. Time to Grok and Roll!
            Eased into a primal diet starting at Christmas 2011. Goal weight - 205 started: 240 pounds waist 40, now 227 pounds and waist 38 Summer 2012 - weight =215 and waist is actually still 39"
            ljbprrfmof = LJ = Little John = John

            Comment


            • No, I'm saying you can't take anything he says at face value given his apparent vested interest. He recommends extremely high levels of iodine supplementation, & appears to be best buddies with the owner of the company that makes the form of iodine that most people will use for those levels. There is a conflict of interest there which people need to know about.
              And you don't know how the friendship developed. Whether it came about pre or post reccomendation, or whether it came about as the Doctor was investigating the product and found it to be of value. So what is wrong with friendships developing? Maybe they are neighbors and cook out together. Before you condemn a person and their associations, investigate these things. It could be a completely honest relationship that arose from frequent contact and not an illicit "I'll scratch your back, if you . . . " type of interaction. In a true light, payola has created much progress.
              Learning the intricacies of healthy eating and nourishing my body the right way.
              I am not bald, that is a Vitamin D collector. Time to Grok and Roll!
              Eased into a primal diet starting at Christmas 2011. Goal weight - 205 started: 240 pounds waist 40, now 227 pounds and waist 38 Summer 2012 - weight =215 and waist is actually still 39"
              ljbprrfmof = LJ = Little John = John

              Comment


              • Originally posted by ljbprrfmof View Post
                Before you condemn a person and their associations, investigate these things.
                I haven't condemned him (at least not for that). I just pointed out the conflict of interest, which people taking high doses of iodine as a result of this thread may not know about. If they want to investigate further, they can.

                Comment


                • There's actually quite a bit of research (and I mean real scientific research, not forum posts or random websites) that illustrates significant risks from chronically elevated iodine doses. While iodine deficiency is not good either, it's a case where while some is beneficial, more is not necessarily so. I'm concerned when people say things like "well, I take a lot of it and feel fine" because long-term toxicity can take a while to emerge.

                  I'm not telling people they shouldn't take iodine--I realize that there are reasons to supplement, and I've read some compelling evidence in credible journals for moderate supplementation particularly for those who don't use iodized salt or consume seafood/seaweed regularly. But it is vitally important to be aware that taking too much of something beneficial can become harmful. Long-term high doses of iodine may cause significant and potentially irreversible health problems, including permanent damage to the thyroid.

                  Iodine Toxicity and Its Amelioration

                  High thyroid volume in children with excess dietary iodine intakes

                  Effects of Chronic Iodine Excess in a Cohort of Long-Term American Workers in West Africa

                  https://www.mja.com.au/journal/2010/...erious-thyroid

                  [Hyperthyroidism induced by amiodarone and hypert... [Ann Pathol. 1995] - PubMed - NCBI

                  Iodine-induced delirium - Hara - 2004 - Human Psychopharmacology: Clinical and Experimental - Wiley Online Library

                  Iodine-Induced Hyperthyroidism: Occurrence and Epidemiology | Abstract

                  :: YMJ :: Yonsei Medical Journal

                  http://ats.ctsnetjournals.org/cgi/reprint/39/5/478.pdf
                  “If I didn't define myself for myself, I would be crunched into other people's fantasies for me and eaten alive.” --Audre Lorde

                  Owly's Journal

                  Comment


                  • If this thread devolved less into people bitching at one another for having the temerity to post their opinions it might be a little more information dense rather than intellectually dense...


                    In New Zealand (which is fairly low in iodine and selenium in the soil), unfortunately the highest concentration of iodine available over the counter is 250mcg per drop. I'm currently experimenting with a dosage of around 2mg every couple of days. I was already salting my water with celtic sea salt, and have started taking chelated selenium, but I'm not bothering with the B cofactors beyond what's in the multivitamin I'm also taking.

                    Annoyingly, I recently found out that the water supply in my city is fluorodated. Largely thanks to the local dental school, no doubt. Which may mean I need to up my dose of iodine to compensate.

                    I'm finding this thread very useful, although I'll have to admit that some of the posters are occasionally coming off as nuttier than a bag of almonds. And if you find that insulting, it probably just means I'm referring to you.

                    ps If this post seems a little disjointed and rambling, that would be because it's almost 2am here. And because it is disjointed and rambling, of course...
                    Argue not with idiots, lest they drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Forgotmylastusername View Post
                      Iodine is a completely harmless substance?. So I can drink 5 bottles of iodine and it's totally fine it will just pass out in my urine with zero risk? Making reckless claims like that that could potentially influence newbies that could be reading this thread is pretty irresponsible, imo.

                      I was talking about the evidence of safety long term on the effects of people taking daily mega-doses of iodine. Not what you think the immediate effects are. Or are people online meant to be Brownsteins guinea pigs?
                      There's lots of things that can be harmless or even beneficial short term that could even cause things tumors or cancer 20 years down the line. I can understand people taking the risk in certain situations where they have nothing to lose and have exhausted all other options, but from threads I've seen you seem to be recommending high dose iodine to everyone for basically anything and everything.
                      You are the one making reckless claims:
                      * NO ONE recommends taking 5 bottles of iodine. That is YOU spouting off
                      * NO ONE recommends "taking daily mega-doses of iodine" Dr. Brownstein recommends only 50mg daily
                      * I recommend people starting iodine on extremely LOW DOSES
                      - - - Mix 1 drop 2% Lugols into bottles of water, put the caps back on.
                      - - - Week 1 drink 1 oz (~30ml) daily (about 380mcg iodone)
                      - - - Week 2 drink 2 oz (~60ml) daily (about 775mcg iodine)
                      - - - Week 3 drink 4 oz (~120ml) daily ( about 1.5mg iodine)
                      - - - Week 4 drink 6 oz (~180ml) daily ( about 2.3mg iodine)
                      - - - Week 5 drink 8 oz (~220ml) daily ( about 3.1 mg iodine or about 1 drop per day),
                      - - - Week 6 drink 2 drops per day in a glass of water
                      - - - Week 7 drink 3 drops per day in a glass of water
                      - - - Week 8 drink 4 drops per day (about 12.5mg = to 1 iodoral)
                      * Next, Titrate up with iodoral 12.5mg iodine tablets available at Amazon.Com
                      - - - add 1/2 tablet each month to eventually reach 50mg daily-refer to Dr. Brownstein’s Book
                      - - - 50mg Daily is the dosage target recommended by Dr. Brownstein to overcome toxins
                      * If any detox symptoms appear do the salt flush and pulse dose. (all listed below)

                      So, as you can see, all of your claims are DEAD WRONG

                      Lets hear what YOUR advice is to newbees.
                      * Which doctor protocol should they follow?
                      * How do you recommend they get iodine into their body?
                      * What is your recommended dosage?

                      Grizz

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Sceptic View Post
                        If this thread devolved less into people bitching at one another for having the temerity to post their opinions it might be a little more information dense rather than intellectually dense...


                        In New Zealand (which is fairly low in iodine and selenium in the soil), unfortunately the highest concentration of iodine available over the counter is 250mcg per drop. I'm currently experimenting with a dosage of around 2mg every couple of days. I was already salting my water with celtic sea salt, and have started taking chelated selenium, but I'm not bothering with the B cofactors beyond what's in the multivitamin I'm also taking.

                        Annoyingly, I recently found out that the water supply in my city is fluorodated. Largely thanks to the local dental school, no doubt. Which may mean I need to up my dose of iodine to compensate.

                        I'm finding this thread very useful, although I'll have to admit that some of the posters are occasionally coming off as nuttier than a bag of almonds. And if you find that insulting, it probably just means I'm referring to you.

                        ps If this post seems a little disjointed and rambling, that would be because it's almost 2am here. And because it is disjointed and rambling, of course...
                        Sceptic,

                        Sceptic,
                        You are correct, the TROLLS are coming out of the woodwork to attack this thread.

                        Fear not, my friend, you can make your own Lugols 5% iodine using the recipes I have in Iodine References. I have both text recipes and video recipes. It is absurdly easy to make and ends up costing a fraction of buying Lugols from Amazon.Com.

                        See the chapter, SHOPPING in Iodine References:
                        http://tinyurl.com/iodine-references


                        Let us know how it goes,
                        Grizz
                        Last edited by Grizz; 07-25-2012, 07:38 AM.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Owly View Post
                          There's actually quite a bit of research (and I mean real scientific research, not forum posts or random websites) that illustrates significant risks from chronically elevated iodine doses. While iodine deficiency is not good either, it's a case where while some is beneficial, more is not necessarily so. I'm concerned when people say things like "well, I take a lot of it and feel fine" because long-term toxicity can take a while to emerge.

                          I'm not telling people they shouldn't take iodine--I realize that there are reasons to supplement, and I've read some compelling evidence in credible journals for moderate supplementation particularly for those who don't use iodized salt or consume seafood/seaweed regularly. But it is vitally important to be aware that taking too much of something beneficial can become harmful. Long-term high doses of iodine may cause significant and potentially irreversible health problems, including permanent damage to the thyroid.

                          Iodine Toxicity and Its Amelioration

                          High thyroid volume in children with excess dietary iodine intakes

                          Effects of Chronic Iodine Excess in a Cohort of Long-Term American Workers in West Africa

                          https://www.mja.com.au/journal/2010/...erious-thyroid

                          [Hyperthyroidism induced by amiodarone and hypert... [Ann Pathol. 1995] - PubMed - NCBI

                          Iodine-induced delirium - Hara - 2004 - Human Psychopharmacology: Clinical and Experimental - Wiley Online Library

                          Iodine-Induced Hyperthyroidism: Occurrence and Epidemiology | Abstract

                          :: YMJ :: Yonsei Medical Journal

                          http://ats.ctsnetjournals.org/cgi/reprint/39/5/478.pdf
                          This well written article contradicts your nonsense:
                          http://www.gabrielcousens.com/LinkCl...language=en-US

                          If you are looking for contradictory claims about iodine, they are everywhere. No 2 doctors can agree on anything. They can't even agree on what kind of iodine to take. It is up to us to choose a doctor & his protocol to follow.

                          WHICH DOCTOR'S PROTOCOL DO YOU CHOOSE TO FOLLOW?
                          Instead of all of this negativism, lets here some positive ideas.

                          Grizz

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Grizz View Post
                            You are the one making reckless claims:
                            * NO ONE recommends taking 5 bottles of iodine. That is YOU spouting off
                            * NO ONE recommends "taking daily mega-doses of iodine" Dr. Brownstein recommends only 50mg daily

                            Grizz
                            And here we have it - you are recommending that people take the amount recommended by Dr Brownstein - 50 mg daily. Mega dose. Daily.

                            The recommendations that I have read and feel safe with is no more than 1.1 mg, daily. Or about 7.7 per week. And yes, it is from a Doctor who recommends this.

                            Forgotmylastusername is making a perfectly valid point - he is not saying people should take 5 bottles of Lugol's each day. He is saying that - IF YOU ARE RIGHT and any excess just moves to urine - then to do that once wouldn't cause harm.

                            Personally, I wouldn't bet on that!

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Grizz View Post
                              This well written article contradicts your nonsense:
                              http://www.gabrielcousens.com/LinkCl...language=en-US

                              If you are looking for contradictory claims about iodine, they are everywhere. No 2 doctors can agree on anything. They can't even agree on what kind of iodine to take. It is up to us to choose a doctor & his protocol to follow.

                              WHICH DOCTOR'S PROTOCOL DO YOU CHOOSE TO FOLLOW?
                              Instead of all of this negativism, lets here some positive ideas.

                              Grizz
                              Owly's post doesn't strike me as nonsense. It is perfectly reasonable and it reflects exactly my concern that long term mega doses could end up being toxic over time.

                              You ask "Which doctors protocol do you choose to follow" - quite obviously, he DOESN"T choose to follow Dr Brownstein's - any more than I do - and it is absolutely his right to choose not to do so.

                              You have given many interesting, helpful and useful links to help people to make up their own minds whether to supplement with iodine or not, and if they do, to decide for themselves how much they wish to take. Deciding not to follow your chosen "protocol" isn't getting at you in any way, isn't personal. It is simply exercising freedom of choice.

                              Comment


                              • 50mg is a mega-dose of iodine by accepted standards. The standard upper daily limit recommended by most sources is 1100mcg, or 1.1mg. Even when you look at iodine doses consumed in some places such as Japan where food source iodine intake is much higher, we see intakes of 1-3mg per day by the most recent research results (Assessment of Japanese iodine intake based on seaweed consumption in Japan: A literature-based analysis).

                                I am wary of any protocol that would suggest dietary intakes vastly beyond what is found in a normal human diet even in a high-iodine region. You are talking about a dose approximately *fifty times* the suggested daily maximum for most people. Yes, higher doses are used to treat particular conditions such as fibrocystic breast disease (Iodine replacement in fibrocystic disease of the ... [Can J Surg. 1993] - PubMed - NCBI) but high doses do come with risks which are well documented in a sizeable body of peer-reviewed research, some of which I cited above.

                                I am not opposed to iodine supplements, but I think the Brownstein protocol looks very risky in light of the journal articles I have read examining the risks of high doses of iodine. I am far more confident in the results of numerous controlled studies published in credible journals than I am in one internet doctor's advice.

                                And you don't just pee out excess iodine. Iodine toxicity is real, and its symptoms can look very much like the "iodine detox" symptoms discussed on this thread. I worry that people are overdosing on iodine and then being led to believe that their symptoms are a sign that they're getting healthier when the "detox" is actually evidence of real harm being done to the body.
                                “If I didn't define myself for myself, I would be crunched into other people's fantasies for me and eaten alive.” --Audre Lorde

                                Owly's Journal

                                Comment

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