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  • But Cori, once people are given the freedom to make choices from available information, where does it end?

    It's a dangerous precedent, people making up their own minds and analyzing data for themselves.

    I scared.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Grizz View Post
      John,

      Would you like to volunteer to be the cop in this thread to insure members don't send themselves to the hospital?
      Would someone else like to do this? I will be very happy to see someone else watch over the newbees to help prevent a disaster. Too bad we have to do this, but we see how poorly people follow directions.

      Sorry but the goal is not to get everyone on iodine. The goal is to help those who decide to start iodine do it correctly so they don't lose work or end up in the hospital. My Iodine References File is not working.
      Neither is the Iodine 101 file.

      Newbees simply do not want to follow directions. What is your best answer to this problem?

      Grizz
      People are adults, responsible for their own actions. Period. You are not the Iodine police. You have communicated the risks clearly. If people want to deviate from Dr. Brownstein's protocol and subsequently get sick, what is that to you? They get to choose what and how. Personally, I titrated up faster than the recommended amounts/time period and I am doing just fine.

      I do have a followup question for you: So are you ok driving away people who might otherwise benefit from Iodine, as long as you can continue with your harsh manner and posts? It appears that you care more about your (harsh) way of communicating than helping others. Not saying this is the case, but that is how it appears.

      I would really like an answer to the question above. Either "Yes, I am ok with that" or "No, I am not ok with that and maybe I need to rethink my communication style" will do.

      I also realize that Paleobird kind of went after you a bit, but now it appears you are completely defensive. Again (and last time), I hope you take a little time off and consider how your manner of posting might be turning people away that otherwise would benefit from some Iodine supplementation.

      I am now going back to lurker mode (like most of the people who are reading this thread and trying out some Iodine.)

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Finnegans Wake View Post
        But Cori, once people are given the freedom to make choices from available information, where does it end?

        It's a dangerous precedent, people making up their own minds and analyzing data for themselves.

        I scared.
        vanadium?

        and yep, i take iodine. 2 drops of 2% and i take a full spectrum multi

        why do i take iodine? because by golly and by gosh, i read this thread
        beautiful
        yeah you are

        Baby if you time travel back far enough you can avoid that work because the dust won't be there. You're too pretty to be working that hard.
        lol

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Hoss2626 View Post
          People are adults, responsible for their own actions. Period. You are not the Iodine police. You have communicated the risks clearly. If people want to deviate from Dr. Brownstein's protocol and subsequently get sick, what is that to you? They get to choose what and how. Personally, I titrated up faster than the recommended amounts/time period and I am doing just fine.

          I do have a followup question for you: So are you ok driving away people who might otherwise benefit from Iodine, as long as you can continue with your harsh manner and posts? It appears that you care more about your (harsh) way of communicating than helping others. Not saying this is the case, but that is how it appears.

          I would really like an answer to the question above. Either "Yes, I am ok with that" or "No, I am not ok with that and maybe I need to rethink my communication style" will do.

          I also realize that Paleobird kind of went after you a bit, but now it appears you are completely defensive. Again (and last time), I hope you take a little time off and consider how your manner of posting might be turning people away that otherwise would benefit from some Iodine supplementation.

          I am now going back to lurker mode (like most of the people who are reading this thread and trying out some Iodine.)
          I think that everyone is in agreement that there is sufficient warnings in Message 7
          http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum...tml#post675468

          that we can end the verbal warnings to newbee members. They are on their own if they don't read the instructions. If they get into trouble they have themselves to blame. Does everyone agree with this policy?

          Grizz

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Grizz View Post
            John, Oxide & other long term members,

            This is a serious question. Do we let everyone do iodine THEIR WAY (by gosh & by golly) and if they end up in the hospital tell them they should have followed documented doctors orders? Breadsauce is our prime renegade example here.


            I have just modified message #7 to make this happen. If a new member fails to read this message then they are on their own risk. Does everyone like this message? Any suggestions?
            http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum...tml#post675468

            Lets all talk about this.
            Grizz
            I believe you have done all that you can do to warn people. Thankfully they are free to make thier own health decisions for the most part. If they choose not to listen to your advice then that is thier choice. We do not have to police anyone as we are all grown ups and can hopefully all read. You have posted the prodicle that Dr. Brownstein advocates many many times. There is no reason for you to take it personally when someone chooses not to take your advice. As you know most of us have gained a level of distrust when it comes to mainstream........everything. We all tend to expirement on ourselves regarding diet, excercise, sleep, cold water therapy, and yes supplements. There is no reason why you should feel responsible for any of us as we have chosen to come to MDA and to this thread on our own. Take a chill pill and do what you do best. Put the info out there for people to see.
            F/37yr/5' 5"
            SW: 154 March 2011
            CW: 140 July to Oct 2011
            PB: 145 gained 5lbs in first 4 months March to July 2012
            With a combo of PB and IF-ing 5 days a week (1 x 1200 calorie meal per day) I have lost 15 lbs PB/IF = 130 lbs July 2012 to current
            GW: 120
            Ultimate Goals ar to be: Happy/ Fit/ Energetic/ Feel great/ Balanced/ cure my thyroid and adrenals

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Grizz View Post

              Disclaimer:
              ==============
              ALWAYS CONSULT YOUR DOCTOR OR LICENSED HEALTHCARE PROFESSIONAL.
              If you use anything on this site without the guidance of a qualified health professional, it is at your own risk and responsibility.
              All information posted in this document is provided for educational purposes only and is not to be construed as medical advice. Only a licensed medical doctor can legally offer medical advice in the United States. These articles and text are simply a collection of information that is in the public domain; they should not be construed as representations or claims by Marks Daily Apple.com or of its members. No claims whatsoever can be made as to the specific benefits that might result from the use of any of the suggested nutrients, supports, opinions, supplements, articles and or applications. The information in this guide is offered without warranty, either express or implied and techniques described herein should not be employed to treat any serious ailment without prior consultation with a qualified healthcare professional..This document is not a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. For your own personal health, always consult with a qualified doctor or healthcare practitioner.

              Grizz
              I find this disclaimer interesting and somewhat troubling due to the fact that so much of what has been posted in this thread is also scare tactic propaganda telling people that most doctors in the medical profession and government are out to actually make people sick on purpose.
              You are telling people to see a doctor, but never trust doctors at the same time.
              I have even read in this thread where you have advised people to disregard what their doctor says about prescription medication for a medically diagnosed Thyroid condition. Very troubling behavior.
              Inconsistent much?
              “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.”
              ~Friedrich Nietzsche
              And that's why I'm here eating HFLC Primal/Paleo.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by cori93437 View Post
                I find this disclaimer interesting and somewhat troubling due to the fact that so much of what has been posted in this thread is also scare tactic propaganda telling people that most doctors in the medical profession and government are out to actually make people sick on purpose.
                You are telling people to see a doctor, but never trust doctors at the same time.
                I have even read in this thread where you have advised people to disregard what their doctor says about prescription medication for a medically diagnosed Thyroid condition. Very troubling behavior.
                Inconsistent much?
                Troubling or not, the disclaimer is a legal requirement to protect MDA and members. What you and I think of doctors does not matter one iota. Legal disclaimers are a fact of life. The legal disclaimer is telling people to see their doctor. Do you like message 7 or not? If not, why not?

                Grizz

                Comment


                • Originally posted by mom5booklover View Post
                  I believe you have done all that you can do to warn people. Thankfully they are free to make thier own health decisions for the most part. If they choose not to listen to your advice then that is thier choice. We do not have to police anyone as we are all grown ups and can hopefully all read. You have posted the prodicle that Dr. Brownstein advocates many many times. There is no reason for you to take it personally when someone chooses not to take your advice. As you know most of us have gained a level of distrust when it comes to mainstream........everything. We all tend to expirement on ourselves regarding diet, excercise, sleep, cold water therapy, and yes supplements. There is no reason why you should feel responsible for any of us as we have chosen to come to MDA and to this thread on our own. Take a chill pill and do what you do best. Put the info out there for people to see.
                  So it is written & so it shall be done. Do you like message # 7?
                  http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum...tml#post675468

                  Does anyone NOT like message #7. This represents our new policy.

                  Grizz

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Grizz View Post
                    Troubling or not, the disclaimer is a legal requirement to protect MDA and members. What you and I think of doctors does not matter one iota. Legal disclaimers are a fact of life. The legal disclaimer is telling people to see their doctor. Do you like message 7 or not? If not, why not?

                    Grizz
                    So what's the purpose of consulting with their doctor if the doctor is dispensing inaccurate information? Or should people listen to their physicians even if it means ignoring the Brownstein protocol?

                    Are you really just giving people legal fine print that *wink, wink* they're supposed to ignore? Or do you not really stand behind what you're saying here? Because it sounds as though you're asking people to hop into Cognitive Dissonance Land and buy two conflicting prescriptions, one where the Miracle of Iodine cures all ills, and one where the Conspiracy of Conniving Physicians (who are against iodine) will somehow offer wisdom to guide the true seeker who comes to said physician with questions about iodine.

                    Let's cut to the chase. You're saying that doctors are worthless and you're just doing a bit of CYA. OK, we get it.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Grizz View Post
                      Troubling or not, the disclaimer is a legal requirement to protect MDA and members. What you and I think of doctors does not matter one iota. Legal disclaimers are a fact of life. The legal disclaimer is telling people to see their doctor. Do you like message 7 or not? If not, why not?

                      Grizz
                      I specifically stated that the legal disclaimer is at issue because you are professing that by taking any iodine and not following the exact protocol you recommend that people will end up hospitalized. So you have a medical disclaimer which tells people to see their doctor, but also tell people many times in this thread to never trust doctors.
                      The "consult a physician" part seems to be at great odds with the "never trust a doctor part".

                      I do not agree with "message 7" because of all of the information hidden behind links.
                      I might find some value in it if all of that information were upfront. And if equal time were given to the doctors who have concerns about the harmful effects of high dose iodine supplementation.
                      As it stands you seem to base the entirety of your arguments against what other respected doctors have to say on the information of just a couple of cherry picked doctors that you agree with.
                      Also... the tone of your writing is ridiculously inflammatory at times with the emboldened statements and bright colors. It looks like a side show snake oil salesmen wrote the pitch.
                      Alarmist propaganda is just misleading. And what I'm seeing is alarmist propaganda.
                      Over reaching claims are simply overreaching claims. Pandemics! And a list of vague symptoms as long as my arm... Statistics that are not based anywhere near reality... like the 90% of women have fibrocistic breast disease and that it leads directly to breast cancer (this statistic is grossly out of line with actual scientific studies).

                      Good honest information doesn't need to be so fraught with drama.
                      Last edited by cori93437; 07-17-2012, 02:08 PM.
                      “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.”
                      ~Friedrich Nietzsche
                      And that's why I'm here eating HFLC Primal/Paleo.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by cori93437 View Post
                        I specifically stated that the legal disclaimer is at issue because you are professing that by taking any iodine and not following the exact protocol you recommend that people will end up hospitalized. So you have a medical disclaimer which tells people to see their doctor, but also tell people many times in this thread to never trust doctors.
                        The "consult a physician" part seems to be at great odds with the "never trust a doctor part".

                        I do not agree with "message 7" because of all of the information hidden behind links.
                        I might find some value in it if all of that information were upfront. And if equal time were given to the doctors who have concerns about the harmful effects of high dose iodine supplementation.
                        As it stands you seem to base the entirety of your arguments against what other respected doctors have to say on the information of just a couple of cherry picked doctors that you agree with.
                        Also... the tone of your writing is ridiculously inflammatory at times with the emboldened statements and bright colors. It looks like a side show snake oil salesmen wrote the pitch.
                        Alarmist propaganda is just misleading. And what I'm seeing is alarmist propaganda.
                        Over reaching claims are simply overreaching claims. Pandemics! And a list of vague symptoms as long as my arm... Statistics that are not based anywhere near reality... like the 90% of women have fibrocistic breast disease and that it leads directly to breast cancer (this statistic is grossly out of line with actual scientific studies).

                        Good honest information doesn't need to be so fraught with drama.
                        Once again, my opinion of doctors and your opinion of doctors has no bearing on the disclaimer. The person reading message 7 is to seek his own doctor's opinion for ALL supplements. His doctor is in control not you or me. EVERYTHING is between the newbee & his doctor. Supplement dosage, which supplements, iodine, how much iodine- EVERYTHING. You & I and everyone else is OUT of the loop. This is very simple. everything is between the doctor & his patient. Doctor is in total control. And that is how it should be.

                        You and I are not professing ANYTHING. Kapish? Doctor advises on EVERYTHING. No other opinions are to be considered. Everyone has opinions on doctors. So what? Some good, some not so good. Doesn't mean anything in the disclaimer.

                        The doctor is in control of the vertical the horizontal, the messages seen and ALL actions. NOTHING is to be done without Doctor.
                        "If you use anything on this site without the guidance of a qualified health professional, it is at your own risk and responsibility." Kapish? What you & I have said in the past means NOTHING what we say in the future means NOTHING. EVERYTHING is at the guidance of that health professional.

                        Grizz
                        Last edited by Grizz; 07-17-2012, 04:09 PM.

                        Comment


                        • Iodine and Candida treatment

                          In 1953 Dr Orian Truss discovered the devastating effects of antibiotics in an Alabama (USA) hospital. During a ward round Truss was intrigued by a gaunt, apparently elderly man who was obviously dying. However, he was only in his forties and in hospital for four months. No specialist had been able to make a diagnosis. Out of curiosity Truss asked the patient when he was last completely well.

                          The man answered that he was well until six months before when he had cut his finger. He had received antibiotics for this. Shortly afterwards he developed diarrhea and his health deteriorated. Truss had seen before how antibiotics cause diarrhea. It was known that Candida was opportunistic and thrived in debilitated patients, but now Truss wondered if it might not be the other way round, that Candida actually caused the debilitated condition.

                          He had read that potassium iodide solution could be used to treat Candida infestation of the blood. So he put the patient on six to eight drops of Lugol's solution four times a day for 3 weeks and soon the patient was again completely well.

                          Soon afterwards he had a female patient with a stuffy nose, a throbbing headache, vaginitis and severe depression. To his amazement all her problems immediately cleared with Candida treatment. Sometime later he saw a female patient who had been schizophrenic for six years with hundreds of electroshock treatments and massive drug dosages. He started treating the woman for sinus allergies with a Candida remedy. Soon she had recovered mentally and physically, and remained well.

                          From then on he treated his patients against Candida at the slightest indication of its presence. Many of his patients made remarkable recoveries from most unusual conditions, including menstrual problems, hyperactivity, learning disabilities, autism, schizophrenia, multiple sclerosis and auto-immune diseases such as Crohn's disease and lupus erythematosus.

                          Every experienced naturopath can relate similar success stories. Also some alternative medical practitioners have realized the curative potential of anti-Candida therapy, as for instance Dr William Crook who wrote several books about the successful treatment of allergies and hyperactive children.

                          6 verticle drops, that would be 37.5 mg of Lugol's 5% solution. At 4 times a day that would be about 150 milligrams of iodine a day. 8 drops four times a day would be about 200 mg's a day. t2t

                          http://www.health-science-spirit.com...aldisease.html
                          Last edited by t2t; 07-18-2012, 06:11 AM. Reason: vaginitis spell error; for the link

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by breadsauce View Post
                            I worry about new visitors to MDA coming across this thread, reading the garbage about "Chemtrails" being touted by "honoured visitors"(???) and feeling that everything here posted is also by nutters.. SOME of this thread comes over as hysterical ranting - not easy to take that seriously.
                            Right. Cavemen built Stonehenge, Melinda Gates is plotting to "depopulate" the world, and airplanes are deliberately dousing us with toxic substances. The person who believes this stuff is the one people turn to for advice on taking iodine supplementation?

                            Originally posted by Radialhead View Post
                            Grizz calling everyone who disagrees with him a troll is very tedious.
                            T2T brings up this chemtrail nonsense, then admits he spent most of his life believing the pyramids & Stonehenge were built by aliens. Grizz believed what he said about the chemtrails without question. So bearing that in mind, how can anyone now trust Grizz's 'research'? He's proven he's happy to take the word of someone who's as close to being a self-proclaimed nutcase as you can get, & pass that on as fact, without any attempt to verify it. Has he done the same with some/most of the iodine information?

                            All I've done in this thread is try to point out to Grizz that he's in danger of losing all credibility. I believe he's now done that, & readers need to do their own research to confirm anything he says rather than assuming he's done all the hard work.

                            Even if common sense & a basic understanding of flight paths, holding patterns, jet engines & atmospherics don't help, it takes very little Googling to discover it's a load of rubbish.

                            It turns out the person I thought was rigorously examining all the evidence was probably doing no such thing. Such is life.
                            Originally posted by Hoss2626 View Post
                            Grizz, You do come off as a bully at times, rude at other times. I am afraid that, at this point, you are alienating most of the people whom you might help. I am humbly asking that you do pause to consider your tone and manner and how it is affecting your credibility. Why not let Iodine have center stage instead of your ego?
                            Originally posted by ljbprrfmof View Post
                            +1 Grizz, I agree with these posts. It is time to take a break from your desire to see everyone take iodine. Your antagonists do have everyone else's interests at heart and I think your all inclusive attitude as to your opinion rubs them the wrong way.
                            All kidding aside, I do have the best interests of the members of this forum and the credibility of the forum at heart. I care about people not hurting themselves by extreme dosing they may or may not need. And I am concerned that any new member would find the whole concept of Primal to be a joke if this was the first thread they happened upon.

                            Originally posted by mom5booklover View Post
                            Please...Please....Please take a few deep breaths and relax. There will always be those who disagree with us on Iodine. You can't win them all to our cause but you will scare alot of them away if you don't stop reporting everyone who disagrees with you.........
                            I am worried that some of the advice you are giving may be misleading and a little unrealistic.
                            If I were new here and knew nothing of iodine......and had clicked on this thread by chance I would STAY SO FAR AWAY FROM IODINE for fear of becoming a paranoid crazy person who paints thier genitals with iodine and can't take any criticizm.
                            Even a non "TROLL!" says the same thing.

                            Originally posted by breadsauce View Post
                            There you go again. Either do as you say, or don't take iodine at all.
                            Originally posted by breadsauce View Post
                            I'm not at all sure that Grizz IS the "leader"of this thread - it was actually, if I remember correctly, started by Bosnic and somehow got hijacked into an evangelical pro-Brownstein stance - which is NOT what everyone wanting to learn about the benefits of iodine necessarily want or believe.
                            There is no need for bullies to insist that their way is the only way - reminds me rather of the Taliban!
                            Originally posted by cori93437 View Post
                            However, it is my honest opinion... and the opinion of some doctors who formerly supported high dose iodine supplementation, that those high doses are neither necessary nor healthy. And I have the right to express that opinion here, as well as provide evidence that supports that belief.
                            I also believe that promoting any course of supplementation that is so harsh that it could put someone in "the hospital with a thyroid storm" or cause "people [to lose] days or weeks of work because they got seriously sick" is a seriously irresponsible thing to do via the internet. Especially when the person promoting it tells people with already medically diagnosed Thyroid conditions that they can do this and just quit their meds... a potentially very dangerous situation.

                            Also... I see that Grizz has addressed everyone's "bullying" here but his own.
                            Telling someone you will laugh when they end up in the hospital
                            for not doing exactly as you say is certainly exactly that type of behavior much more than banter about the lack of validity of patently false information being passed off as fact.
                            Originally posted by Grizz View Post
                            Do we let everyone do iodine THEIR WAY (by gosh & by golly) and if they end up in the hospital tell them they should have followed documented doctors orders? Breadsauce is our prime renegade example here.
                            Since when do people need your permission, Grizz? Breadsauce isn't a "renegade" from anything. He can make his own decisions.

                            Originally posted by Hoss2626 View Post
                            People are adults, responsible for their own actions. Period. You are not the Iodine police.
                            So are you ok driving away people who might otherwise benefit from Iodine, as long as you can continue with your harsh manner and posts? It appears that you care more about your (harsh) way of communicating than helping others.
                            See?

                            Originally posted by mom5booklover View Post
                            There is no reason for you to take it personally when someone chooses not to take your advice. Take a chill pill and do what you do best. Put the info out there for people to see.
                            Originally posted by Grizz View Post
                            So it is written & so it shall be done. This represents our new policy. Grizz
                            Wow! Who died and made you king of policy making?

                            Originally posted by cori93437 View Post
                            The "consult a physician" part seems to be at great odds with the "never trust a doctor part".

                            I might find some value in it if all of that information were upfront. And if equal time were given to the doctors who have concerns about the harmful effects of high dose iodine supplementation.
                            As it stands you seem to base the entirety of your arguments against what other respected doctors have to say on the information of just a couple of cherry picked doctors that you agree with.
                            Also... the tone of your writing is ridiculously inflammatory at times with the emboldened statements and bright colors. It looks like a side show snake oil salesmen wrote the pitch.
                            Alarmist propaganda is just misleading. And what I'm seeing is alarmist propaganda.
                            Over reaching claims are simply overreaching claims. Pandemics! And a list of vague symptoms as long as my arm... Statistics that are not based anywhere near reality... like the 90% of women have fibrocistic breast disease and that it leads directly to breast cancer (this statistic is grossly out of line with actual scientific studies).

                            Good honest information doesn't need to be so fraught with drama.
                            No, it doesn't. Bad information, however, is much easier to sell with lots of drama.

                            Don't get me wrong. I do not believe that Grizz is anything but sincere in his desire to help people. He is just massively misinformed and people should not be counting on him to have all the facts straight. He obviously believes in some pretty dubious source material. Do your own research and consult your doctor. They don't bite, really.
                            Last edited by Paleobird; 07-17-2012, 04:51 PM.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by t2t View Post
                              In 1953 Dr Orian Truss virginities and severe depression.
                              Virginities??!! What sort of disease is that??!!

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Paleobird View Post



                                No, it doesn't. Bad information, however, is much easier to sell with lots of drama.

                                Don't get me wrong. I do not believe that Grizz is anything but sincere in his desire to help people. He is just massively misinformed and people should not be counting on him to have all the facts straight. He obviously believes in some pretty dubious source material. Do your own research and consult your doctor. They don't bite, really.
                                I also believe that Grizz has good at heart.. But he is doing huge damage coming over as such a bully / bigot / etc etc.

                                Comment

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