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  • I'm jealous of my wife

    So I do all the cooking at home; my wife burns water. Literally. She once caught a pot of water on fire trying to boil it...

    So she (and the kids) are not Primal. But they eat what I eat, and then something. So when I'm cooking dinner, it is a Paleo meal (protein plus veg) with a side of starches (bread, pasta, rice, potatoes, etc). Occasionally I'll cook them up some home made mac and cheese (my wife loves it) and eat something different myself.

    My wife recently went to get her bloodwork checked. HDL = 89, LDL = 55 (puffy too), and triglycerides = 30. Aaaaaaaargh!!!!! Hers improved eating what I cook (since I went Primal 10 months ago), but she still gets the breads/gluten. Heck, she even snacks on popcorn, cookies, lots of bread (lots and lots).

    Can I just confess jealousy? I mean, she's slim (not skinny fat), doesn't exercise (except for our 3+ mile walks several times a week, and eats whatever she wants.

    --Me

  • #2
    My gods, I am soooo jealous of your wife too! Particularly you cooking all the meals! I start my day 30 min earlier to cook my husband's primal breakfast and pack everyone's lunches while on my fast & cook every meal we eat. I log, train, do special macros with a diligence, and I am not slender. As I said, some women are SUPER-lucky! She gotta treasure you!
    My Journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread57916.html
    When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be.

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    • #3
      Gluten isn't going to affect your cholesterol numbers. If you're eating the same glycemic load of white potatoes vs wheat (notice I said load, not glycemic index), your trigs should be similar enough to lead to similar ratios. What your wife isn't showing on paper is the effect the gluten has on her gut. Gluten disrupts digestion and gut permeability, so she could have great numbers thanks to fantastic genetic predisposition to handling starch, yet her digestive system could be in disarray.

      Tell her to get a c-reactive protein test. That shows systemic inflammation. She could have nice cholesterol numbers and be all inflamed since wheat is highly inflammatory vs potatoes. Personally, I don't give much a damn about cholesterol numbers with a high HDL and a low triglyceride (my HDL is 95 and trigs are 40 last time I checked, I couldn't care less about my total). I care about my body's inflammation, which is why my CRP score of 0.2 looks just dandy to me. And that was only 3 months Primal. Now that I'm 9 months in, I bet it's even better.

      Most people aren't all that sensitive to bread, anyway. Yes, we'd ALL be better off never eating any gluten-containing grains, but let's not forget that people eat gluten in this country with every meal, every day of their lives and still live to be 80 regularly. If you are doing all the cooking and your non-gluten-sensitive wife has gone from eating bread with every meal to once or twice a week, she's going to see big health benefits. I used to eat bread every day and I never had an issue. I haven't eaten anything more than a bite or two of bread in over 9 months because I choose to as I'm much better without it, but I could easily get away with it. Especially since I only baked my own and fermented the hell out of it for 3 days. Honestly, I miss baking bread more than eating it. It was fun.
      Last edited by ChocoTaco369; 12-13-2011, 09:14 AM.
      Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

      Comment


      • #4
        I didn't mention wife's CRP because it was also stellar. Of course... And as for her gut, she doesn't seem to have any problems at all. No symptoms of anything bad. I guess she's one of the lucky few.

        As for bread, I agree with you. I still bake the challah on Fridays for Shabbat, even though I don't partake. And I still make home made pasta for wife and kiddies once in a while (use yummy sausage for the filling of the ravioli).

        Now I just need to get her to start to LHT, but we have to wait until after the 3rd monkey is born.

        --Me

        Comment


        • #5
          LDL at 55 is in indicator that she frequently gets the cold more so than you.
          Low LDL has been associated with high risk of cancer and early death.
          LDL is a window into immune system health.
          LDL builds new cells, renews and repairs tissue and produces hormones, 'vitamins' such a retinol and D3 etc, is generally needed for hearth health, lung and brain function.
          The combination of primal meals and grains (which are supposed to lower LDL) seems to be showing up with perfect number in the medical community, yet the ratio of things are a lot more important.
          Her ratio between Trig/HDL is above normal showing a 2.9 !!! This ratio is supposed to be UNDER 2.
          Her ratio between LDL/HDL shows a 1.6, yet normal, healthy ratio is BEST 2.5-3.

          Grains are obviously inhibiting the production of hormones, bile formation for proper digestion of fats and fat-soluble vitamins A D E and K for healthy bones. Her number indeed look awesome on paper....but many, many tests have shown that people with proper ratios live longer and are healthier than those that show extremely low chol. numbers.
          Something else is going on.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by adamm View Post
            So I do all the cooking at home; my wife burns water. Literally. She once caught a pot of water on fire trying to boil it...

            So she (and the kids) are not Primal. But they eat what I eat, and then something. So when I'm cooking dinner, it is a Paleo meal (protein plus veg) with a side of starches (bread, pasta, rice, potatoes, etc). Occasionally I'll cook them up some home made mac and cheese (my wife loves it) and eat something different myself.

            My wife recently went to get her bloodwork checked. HDL = 89, LDL = 55 (puffy too), and triglycerides = 30. Aaaaaaaargh!!!!! Hers improved eating what I cook (since I went Primal 10 months ago), but she still gets the breads/gluten. Heck, she even snacks on popcorn, cookies, lots of bread (lots and lots).

            Can I just confess jealousy? I mean, she's slim (not skinny fat), doesn't exercise (except for our 3+ mile walks several times a week, and eats whatever she wants.

            --Me
            Including grains in your diet will have that effect on cholesterol a lot of the time.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by adamm View Post
              I didn't mention wife's CRP because it was also stellar. Of course... And as for her gut, she doesn't seem to have any problems at all. No symptoms of anything bad. I guess she's one of the lucky few.

              As for bread, I agree with you. I still bake the challah on Fridays for Shabbat, even though I don't partake. And I still make home made pasta for wife and kiddies once in a while (use yummy sausage for the filling of the ravioli).

              Now I just need to get her to start to LHT, but we have to wait until after the 3rd monkey is born.

              --Me
              That's fantastic. Some people are just blessed with good genetics. I have an iron gut myself and can eat ridiculous spice and massive quantities of food for my size. The only things that blow me up are sweet potatoes and homogenized cow's milk, but I have to eat about 4 lbs of sweet potatoes and a half a gallon of milk to really see the effects, haha.

              That being said, why are you avoiding bread? Are you avoiding bread because of the health problems associated with wheat or are you strictly low carbohydrate? I avoid bread because of the wheat, not the carbohydrate. If you do not fear carbs or you can fit them into a healthy eating plan, I suggest looking into alternative flours to make your bread. Using 2 cups white rice flour, 1/2 cup tapioca flour and 1/2 cup potato starch will substitute wonderfully as a white flour alternative and contain virtually no toxins. You can sub out another 1/2 cup of white rice flour for 1/2 cup of sorghum, as well. The sorghum does have some anti-nutrients, but it won't be that terrible at that low of a quantity and it'll add an earthier flavor closer to whole wheat. If you choose to, you can add a tablespoon of buckwheat flour to the sorghum and ferment that portion with Greek yogurt overnight to remove the phytic acid. Just combine 1/2 cup of sorghum with 1-2 tablespoons of buckwheat and 1/2 cup of unsweetened Greek yogurt, then thin out with water into a pancake-batter consistency with a sprinkle of yeast and let it sit on the counter for 1-3 days to ferment, similar to a poolish. If you're a baker, I'm sure you're familiar.

              It'll be more difficult to shape the bread for sure without the gluten, but it'll be a much healthier alternative you can partake in if you can handle starch. You can do the same with pasta, too. Organic brown rice pasta is excellent, and I hardly know the difference. You can make pasta dough using this same procedure. You'll probably have to get yourself some xanthan gum, though. It helps with making a bread-like texture in the absense of gluten.
              Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

              Comment


              • #8
                Yeah, I hear you! My 'man' is slim, never has colds or stomach problems, or gets ill. he chows down on carbs like they're going out of style. Literally everything he puts in his mouth is a carb fest, and his choice of beverage...? beer or coffee (with sugar, of course). No exercise, Bread, pasta, cheesecake... Hardly ever a vegetable! Though he does eat seafood regularly. He often goes all day without eating, and when he does he hardly eats anything before saying he's full, so maybe he's a getting the benefits of IFing.

                So, yeah, I think some people can consume crap and still appear to thrive. No sugar dips or crashes, no obvious signs of inflammation or outward illness. Because of that he insists he's healthy, and refuses to even consider paleo, even though death from heart disease runs in his family. That worries me a lot, but what can I do, when he insists he's well, and he would even argue that he's healthier and stronger than me, which is somewhat true given that before Paleo I was sick with one thing or another all the time!!

                I want to get us some blood work done, since, if he sees the numbers (and if mine are better than his) it might make him realize something's gotta change... Which tests do you recommend (LDH / HDL) and...? c-reactive protein...?

                And is it ONE test that does all that, or do I have to ask for what I want tested. (never done tests before, so not sure...) also, if there's a chapter in the book I should read up on I would appreciate the reference.
                Last edited by thaijinx; 12-13-2011, 05:19 PM.
                SW: 68 kg. * CW: 61.5 kg. * GW: 60 kg or less...
                “Your work is to discover your work and then with all your heart to give yourself to it.” ~ Buddha

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Issabeau;

                  Her ratio between Trig/HDL is above normal showing a 2.9 !!! This ratio is supposed to be UNDER 2.
                  Her ratio between LDL/HDL shows a 1.6, yet normal, healthy ratio is BEST 2.5-3..

                  I agree. Her trig/HDL ratio isn't awesome. It's actually a problem. I wouldn't boast about those numbers, or be jealous of them. As a woman, she could do far, far better. . . imvho. About 25% of the population have no issues with grains or carbs. She may be lucky in that area, but her trig/HDL ratio is telling us a different story.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    from the OP "HDL = 89, LDL = 55 (puffy too), and triglycerides = 30."
                    This would be a trig to LDL ratio of 30/89 = .39 that is well under 2 which is good
                    LDL to HDL would be 55/89 = .62 which may be not so good
                    Or is math different where I am from :-)

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
                      ...[snip]...

                      That being said, why are you avoiding bread? Are you avoiding bread because of the health problems associated with wheat or are you strictly low carbohydrate?
                      ...[snip]...
                      I avoid bread because I avoid carbs. I avoid carbs because I'm a type 1 diabetic, and by avoiding carbs I have a HbA1C of 5.3 and very low insulin requirements. Also, because type 1 diabetes is an auto-immune disease, I reckon that pulling gluten out of my diet in general isn't a bad idea

                      --Me

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by adamm View Post
                        I avoid bread because I avoid carbs. I avoid carbs because I'm a type 1 diabetic, and by avoiding carbs I have a HbA1C of 5.3 and very low insulin requirements. Also, because type 1 diabetes is an auto-immune disease, I reckon that pulling gluten out of my diet in general isn't a bad idea

                        --Me
                        Ok, that is probably one of the only reasons I would accept as 100% valid and completely non-arguable, haha. Sounds good to me!

                        That being said, your wife's LDL may be of concern. No matter how clean your diet is, you're always ingesting toxins, even if they're purely environmental. Damage likely happens to all of our arteries on a daily basis, so they're always in a state of repair just like any part of the body. The way I understand it is your LDL is kind of like a tire patch kit. When damage occurs to your arteries, the LDL "patches" it until repaired. Then the HDL comes in and sweeps the LDL away. For people with high LDL and low HDL, there isn't enough HDL to remove the LDL and it eventually builds up and causes a blockage over long periods of time, particularly the small dense LDL. If her LDL is so low, she may have issues repairing damage to her arteries. The problem is, the health industry is so obsessed with high LDL that there is a perception that the lower it is, the better it is. There HAS to be a threshold like anything else where too low LDL becomes a concern in and of itself. That HDL and triglyceride number is fantastic, but that LDL number concerns me. I have no evidence other than a gut feeling, but you may want to do some research on low LDL. I DO know that low total cholesterol is associated with higher cancer risks, so keep that in mind. Not trying to freak you out but her numbers may not be as steller as you think. She may benefit from more saturated and monounsaturated fat in her diet with low omega 6 to boost those numbers.
                        Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Thanks, this is very well reasoned feedback. I've been looking for different methodologies to use diet and exercise to tweak cholesterol results, but have never found a good primer.

                          For example, I have low HDL. My HDL at last checkup was 39, my LDL was 150 (big and puffy, thankfully), and my Tris were 59. I'm pretty pleased with LDL and Tris, but I'm trying to boost my HDL. I switched out exercise programs, but since then haven't had an update. What else can be done to boost my HDLs? I take boatloads of Omega-3s, eat high protein and reasonably high fat (butter is grass fed, etc).

                          My wife, on the other hand, seems to need a boost in LDLs. So what can I do to encourage those to go up without really lowering her HDLs?

                          --Me

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by adamm View Post
                            My wife, on the other hand, seems to need a boost in LDLs. So what can I do to encourage those to go up without really lowering her HDLs?
                            Your wife is doing great. It's the math in this thread that needs work. Here's a thread that will give you a much more comprehensive explanation of cholesterol and what the numbers mean: Cholesterol - A Primer.

                            I suggest you do the numbers yourself.
                            Yeah, my grammar sucks. Deal with it!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by adamm View Post
                              For example, I have low HDL. My HDL at last checkup was 39, my LDL was 150 (big and puffy, thankfully), and my Tris were 59. I'm pretty pleased with LDL and Tris, but I'm trying to boost my HDL. I switched out exercise programs, but since then haven't had an update. What else can be done to boost my HDLs? I take boatloads of Omega-3s, eat high protein and reasonably high fat (butter is grass fed, etc).
                              Your LDL is a bunch of crap because it's almost certainly calculated incorrectly. Look into the Iranian formula and I bet it drops by 20-30 points.

                              This is what I've learned from my own personal experience. Again, I'm not a doctor. Then again, doctors aren't qualified to give nutritional advice either and they're usually wrong, too, so here it goes. This is my OPINION and this is the approach I take to improve cholesterol (my HDL went from 60 to 95 doing this for 3-4 months):

                              Saturated fat raises total cholesterol. That is why it has a bad reputation - the medical establishment and insurance companies are obsessed with "total" cholesterol. However, I find the "total" to be largely irrelevant and the ratios are what's important and relevant. Saturated fat raises your cholesterol because it raises your HDL while not really affecting LDL much.

                              Monounsaturated fat is mostly benign. I don't consider monounsaturated fat all that relevant, and since it's in practically everything in large quantities - fatty vegetables, meats AND nuts - it's very, very simple to get. I don't stress over monounsaturated fats at all.

                              Polyunsaturated fat LOWERS your total cholesterol. Yep, that's why the medical establishment wants you avoiding red meat and butter. Oats, vegetable oils and nuts contain oodles of polyunsaturated fat, so they have a TOTAL cholesterol reducing effect. However, they are doing this at the expense of HDL. This is where the disconnect comes in - the total cholesterol is lowered, but it's at the expense of the good cholesterol.

                              The cholesterol correcting protocol is as follows:

                              1.) Eat more saturated fat. Don't just pile on fat for the hell of it if you already eat lots of fat. Start replacing. Instead of using olive oil to cook, use grassfed butter, grassfed ghee, beef tallow or coconut oil ONLY. I would stay away from lard or poultry fat as well. Instead of eating chicken and pork, eat red meat instead - beef, lamb, goat, deer, bison, etc. Ruminants are what you want - animals that graze on grass. They contain high levels of saturated fats and low levels of polyunsaturated fats.

                              2.) Don't worry about your monounsaturated fat. If you're eating plenty of meat, you're getting plenty of monounsaturated fat.

                              3.) Get yourself on a VERY low omega 6 diet. You will do this by avoiding all vegetable/seed oils, grains, legumes, and nuts. Yes, nuts. That's not to say you can never have nuts again. Just for the time being while you're improving your cholesterol, they should be completely shunned. They have too little saturated fat and far too much polyunsaturated fat. The single exception is macadamia nuts, which you could probably partake in occasionally if $12/lb isn't off-putting. Just be aware that you should only be buying raw or dry roasted macadamias because any added oils are going to boost the PUFA content (unless they're oil roasting in coconut oil, beef tallow, ghee or macadamia nut oil itself - NOT LIKELY!).

                              4.) Eat a pound of wild-caught salmon every week. It's highly anti-inflammatory and should help improve your ratios. My gut feeling is it'll improve your good LDL.

                              Anyway, those are the four biggies in my mind. I would also recommend a little red wine and super dark (85+%) chocolate every single week. They have huge anti-oxidant components and chocolate is loaded with saturated fat with very low PUFA content. Just be aware that chocolate is EXTREMELY high in phytic acid, so a little is fantastic for you but a lot can lead to nutrient deficiencies. How much is "too much"? I have no idea. I personally think a 3.5oz bar of 90% Lindt a week sounds good to me. OR - do what I do. Buy chocolate truffle molds, melt down 100% baking chocolate with a little coconut oil, sweeten with stevia, pour into the molds (they're great with shredded coconut in the center!) and refrigerate to harden. If you don't like red wine (like me, I'm a bad Italian), look into taking resveratrol supplementation.
                              Last edited by ChocoTaco369; 12-14-2011, 11:16 AM.
                              Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

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