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  • The paleo diet, by Loren cordain

    So, I thought I was being healthy, increasing my (good) fat consumption, lowering my (processed) carb. I've been adding in a little extra salt here and there to remineralize (I have low blood pressure), cooking in lard and butter, eating bacon occasionally, restricting fruit and dairy, but still eating a little cheese and a few nuts.

    All good, I thought, until I read 'The Paleo Diet' which basically says that ALL of that is wrong?!!!

    Wrong, wrong, wrong!

    High fat - low carb is not paleo he says. It causes untold damage to the body.

    Paleo people never ate salt.

    Lean protein, NOT fatty meats made up the paleo diet.

    Especially no bacon, sausage and other processed meats. (OK, I agree with that one).

    meat, eggs, seafood are all acidic, and cause osteoporosis

    HIGH levels of vegetables and FRUIT should be consumed, not high levels of fat.

    Wah! So now I'm confused!

    Anyone else read this book and found it at odds with other stuff you've read?
    SW: 68 kg. * CW: 61.5 kg. * GW: 60 kg or less...
    “Your work is to discover your work and then with all your heart to give yourself to it.” ~ Buddha

  • #2
    Cordain has changed his stance on some issues since writing that book. Personally, I only made it half way through it...snoozefest and outdated. I felt like it was written as a rebuttal or to prevent comparison to Atkins. It's my understanding that he's writing a new book that will clarify his position on things like saturated fat.
    Heather and the hounds - Make a Fast Friend, Adopt a Greyhound!

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    • #3
      I does appear he has changed his stance. If you look at his website www.thepaleodiet.com, it's covered with pictures of beautiful meat and seafood.

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      • #4
        Here's what I find interesting about Cordain's research:

        For worldwide hunter-gatherers, the most plausible (values not exceeding the mean MRUS) percentages of total energy from the macronutrients would be 19–35% for protein, 22–40% for carbohydrate, and 28–58% for fat. (Link)
        A paleo diet could be as high as 40% carbohydrates. That's 250-300 grams of carbohydrates for the average male, and 200 grams for the average female. Not exactly a low carbohydrates diet, and definitely not a keto-diet.
        Yeah, my grammar sucks. Deal with it!

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Kharnath View Post
          Here's what I find interesting about Cordain's research:



          A paleo diet could be as high as 40% carbohydrates. That's 250-300 grams of carbohydrates for the average male, and 200 grams for the average female. Not exactly a low carbohydrates diet, and definitely not a keto-diet.
          It makes sense that the human diet has always been varied. Humans have been able to spread all over the planet because our bodies are designed to burn a variety of fuel. I'm coming to the belief that as long as you are consuming clean, non-toxic, nutrient dense fuel, not in excess of caloric needs, you will be healthy. I'm not sure the macro's matter that much for most people.

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          • #6
            Good thing the PB isn't paleo, then!
            You lousy kids! Get off my savannah!

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            • #7
              find what works for you ..eat clean the end. theres no such thing as one paleo diet

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              • #8
                my boss got a copy of The Paleo Diet for Athletes and the page I flipped to was about how awesome canola oil is and theres no evidence of negative effects on humans ???

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                • #9
                  Actually, to me the Paleo diet seems to make way more sense than PB (however I've read the newest version of the Paleo Diet, where Cordain explains that he no longer recommends Canola). Animals in the wild have a pretty low percentage of body fat, and if you were to eat the whole animal, your average fat consumption for the whole animal would be much lower than if you were to constantly eat bacon and cook everything in butter, lard and eat tons of the 'cheaper fatty cuts' of meat that people seem to suggest on this forum. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and if people are happy with PB and having healthy results from it, way to go. Personally, I think it's PB that's more at odds with most of the research I've been reading and Paleo seems more right on. That being said, I went Paleo to deal with my autoimmune disease, which seems to be doing wonders. Others may have a different experience and I'm not trying to say that either way is right or wrong.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by BestBetter View Post
                    Actually, to me the Paleo diet seems to make way more sense than PB (however I've read the newest version of the Paleo Diet, where Cordain explains that he no longer recommends Canola). Animals in the wild have a pretty low percentage of body fat, and if you were to eat the whole animal, your average fat consumption for the whole animal would be much lower than if you were to constantly eat bacon and cook everything in butter, lard and eat tons of the 'cheaper fatty cuts' of meat that people seem to suggest on this forum. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and if people are happy with PB and having healthy results from it, way to go. Personally, I think it's PB that's more at odds with most of the research I've been reading and Paleo seems more right on. That being said, I went Paleo to deal with my autoimmune disease, which seems to be doing wonders. Others may have a different experience and I'm not trying to say that either way is right or wrong.
                    The majority of wild game is lean so hunter gatherers preferentially ate the fattiest parts of the meat first (brains, organs, marrow).

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                    • #11
                      1. If you eat everything, wild game is actually not low-fat at all. there is a vivid desciption in the journals of Lewis and Clark - they happened upon a friendly group of natives who had been starving to death as a result of losing a battle against their neighbors, losing their weapons etc. - Clark shot a deer and they ate all of the guts, everything, raw on the spot as it lay. Organs and guts were the first thing they went for. Kurt Harris has a really interesting breakdown of the fat % in wild buffalo, etc. Not low-fat.
                      2. There is a huge difference between the recommendations needed to LOSE weight, get healthy, etc., and what "healthy" people can tolerate. I believe in low-carbing for weight loss, regaining control of insulin and cravings, etc. I do not believe that means that no one should eat carbs- people (who are healthy) certainly do thrive on higher carb diets in many, many societies. What has gotten modern US society in particular sick is the explosion of sugar drinks and bad oils - among many other problems - the carbs themselves are not unique or new.
                      If you are new to the PB - please ignore ALL of this stuff, until you've read the book, or at least http://www.marksdailyapple.com/primal-blueprint-101/ and this (personal fave): http://www.archevore.com/get-started/

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                      • #12
                        They may have eaten the fatty parts first but they also ate the rest of the animal. They certainly would not have discarded it. I wonder what percentage of fat there was on the total animal. I just went to Google and found the info below.

                        "However, surveys show that carcasses of domesticated animals have 25 to 30 percent fat while the average fat content of wild game animals is only 4.3 percent. Not only is the quantity of fat lower in game, but the quantity is also healthier. Fat from wild game contains a much higher proportion of polyunsaturated fatty acids-good fat- and is lower in saturated fat-bad fat."

                        Source: North Dakota State University
                        Original Goal: To lose weight. Achieved in March 2010
                        Long Term Goals: To continue using Primal guidlines to improve fitness and health. To share the Primal message.

                        The key to successful aging is to pay as little attention to it as possible - Judith Regan

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                        • #13
                          I know I've tried Googling this before to no avail, but wasn't there an issue with Rabbit Fever or something like that when the American settlers were heading west?

                          From what I remember, after a while they ran out of supplies, couldn't get any large game and could only find rabbit to eat, which was apparently fairly lean, and they were pretty messed up from the lack of fat.

                          Again, this is all stuff I vaguely remember hearing about, so don't quote me.
                          Durp.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by RitaRose View Post
                            I know I've tried Googling this before to no avail, but wasn't there an issue with Rabbit Fever or something like that when the American settlers were heading west?

                            From what I remember, after a while they ran out of supplies, couldn't get any large game and could only find rabbit to eat, which was apparently fairly lean, and they were pretty messed up from the lack of fat.

                            Again, this is all stuff I vaguely remember hearing about, so don't quote me.
                            It's called rabbit starvation I believe, and yeah I've read about it in several places as well...
                            "The mountains are calling and I must go."
                            --John Muir


                            "I don't know what's wrong with me, but I love this shit."
                            --Tommy Caldwell


                            ‎"Think like a geek. Eat like a hunter. Train like a fighter. Look like a model. Live beyond."
                            --Hyperlithic

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                            • #15
                              Wild game may have lower fat muscle meat but they have lots of fat in the body cavity as well as the marrow and brains. The pictures at the bottom are awesome.

                              Tribe of Five: Hunting for Good Food and Roaming Bison

                              I have read that muscle meat was the least favored meats in many hunter gather tribes. It was frequently dried and mixed with extra fat to save as an emergency food source in hard time. I have also read it was frequently fed to dogs!

                              I found this interesting as well:

                              When The Conclusions Don’t Match The Data: Even Loren Cordain Whiffs It Sometimes, Because Saturated Fat Is Most Definitely Paleo (Updated) - GNOLLS.ORG

                              In the beginning of eating primal, I found the higher fat recommendations counter-intuitive as well. However, Cordain style eating left me starving and unsatisfied. For me, the more fat I eat the better I feel. But, I think the reality is probably that fat intake varied dramatically based on time of year, hunting success and location.
                              Using low lectin/nightshade free primal to control autoimmune arthritis. (And lost 50 lbs along the way )

                              http://www.krispin.com/lectin.html

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