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  • #16
    1



    I disagree with Tarlach, as do nearly all of the folks who promote zone/paleo (this is the Crossfit version of PB eating). If you want to get your body fat in the low teens and single digits you absolutely have to pay attention to portion size. Once you get closer to your ideal weight, weight loss from low carb dieting will slow. You are not going to continue to lose body fat eating 5000 calories a day with no physical activity once you get to a certain point.


    Tarlach, what is your current height, weight and BF% and how far are you form your ideal weight? I'm 5'11 185 and 12%-15%BF. I'm looking to lose my last 5 pounds of fat and maintain muscle.

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    • #17
      1



      I disagree with Tarlach, as do nearly all of the folks who promote zone/paleo (this is the Crossfit version of PB eating). If you want to get your body fat in the low teens and single digits you absolutely have to pay attention to portion size. Once you get closer to your ideal weight, weight loss from low carb dieting will slow. You are not going to continue to lose body fat eating 5000 calories a day with no physical activity once you get to a certain point.


      Tarlach, what is your current height, weight and BF% and how far are you form your ideal weight? I'm 5'11 185 and 12%-15%BF. I'm looking to lose my last 5 pounds of fat and maintain muscle.

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      • #18
        1



        I disagree with Tarlach, as do nearly all of the folks who promote zone/paleo (this is the Crossfit version of PB eating). If you want to get your body fat in the low teens and single digits you absolutely have to pay attention to portion size. Once you get closer to your ideal weight, weight loss from low carb dieting will slow. You are not going to continue to lose body fat eating 5000 calories a day with no physical activity once you get to a certain point.


        Tarlach, what is your current height, weight and BF% and how far are you form your ideal weight? I'm 5'11 185 and 12%-15%BF. I'm looking to lose my last 5 pounds of fat and maintain muscle.

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        • #19
          1



          haha, well you didn't have to say it 3 times!


          I have to say though... I don't think there's any way I COULD eat 5000 (or even 3000) calories a day with this way of eating. Food is just SO FILLING and I am not getting very hungry in general...

          but I guess I'm just a dainty girl. haha. Maybe some guys here could eat that much.


          I'm eating "whatever I want" (within the PB as well as I can be for my first week) and have been around 1600/day on average.

          Eating lots but still hungry? Eat more fat. Mid-day sluggishness? Eat more fat. Feeling depressed or irritable? Eat more fat. People think you've developed an eating disorder? Eat more fat... in front of them.

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          • #20
            1



            Tarlach, when you did your experiment, did you eta pretty muh zero carbs? ie no green veggies?

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            • #21
              1



              It wasn't me who did the high fat/calorie experiment, I just know the guy who did it.


              * His required maintenance calories was calculated at ~2100.

              * The expected values are calculated as if calories in = calories out.

              * The first week is low as it took a while for fat burning to start.

              * Also the weight loss slowed with dairy and then increased when dairy was omitted again.


              Otherwise it was a pretty consistent 2kg loss a week, irregardless of number of calories eaten.


              eg. Some weekly summaries

              --

              Week 1

              Food: Seasoned Meat and Water

              Average Calories: 5232

              Average Fat: 86%

              Expected: 2.8 kg body fat gain

              Actual: 0.4 kg body fat loss

              ______________________________________


              Week 2

              Food: Seasoned Meat and Water

              Average Calories: 4026

              Average Fat: 88%

              Expected: 1.7 kg body fat gain

              Actual: 1.9 kg body fat loss

              ______________________________________


              Week 3

              Food: Seasoned Meat and Water

              Average Calories: 3057

              Average Fat: 84%

              Expected: 0.9 kg body fat gain

              Actual: 2.0 kg body fat loss

              ______________________________________


              Week 4

              Food: Seasoned Meat & Eggs, Cheese, Butter, Water

              Average Calories: 3098

              Average Fat: 80%

              Expected: 0.9 kg body fat gain

              Actual: 0.8 kg body fat loss

              ______________________________________


              Week 5 (I think he cut dairy out early in this week)

              Food: Seasoned Meat & Eggs, Butter, Water

              Average Calories: 3186

              Average Fat: 82%

              Expected: 1.0 kg body fat gain

              Actual: 1.6 kg body fat loss


              etc.

              --


              Conan - Just because you don't agree with me, doesn't mean I am wrong. Also not all the paleo eaters do crossfit, so I doubt you speak for many of them. I am a member of a quite a few paleo forums and plenty of members there agree that calories do not matter.

              I have eaten very strict paleo for over three years, but moved towards more high fat/low carb. I eat about 3000 calories a day.


              I am 6'1, 183, and 11% bf. I am at my ideal weight. You do not have to watch portion size to get low bf. I got there eating a lot of calories.


              Maybe you should try it if you can't lose the last 5lb of fat with your current regime...

              The "Seven Deadly Sins"

              • Grains (wheat/rice/oats etc) . . . . . • Dairy (milk/yogurt/butter/cheese etc) . . . . .• Nightshades (peppers/tomato/eggplant etc)
              • Tubers (potato/arrowroot etc) . . . • Modernly palatable (cashews/olives etc) . . . • Refined foods (salt/sugars etc )
              • Legumes (soy/beans/peas etc)

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              • #22
                1



                Agree with Tarlach, I've seen the same kind of zero-carb experiments done. People can't seem to wrap their brains around things like futile cycling that just burn away calories.


                That being said, I can eat unlimited calories(if very low carb) and not gain a pound....but I tend to not lose any either...so I do have to throw in some low calorie days or IF days to lose when I want to.

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                • #23
                  1



                  High fat and calories doesn't seem to work with dairy for some reason? Not that we eat dairy on paleo anyway.


                  I do also lean towards IF and only have one main meal a day.


                  My wife eats very similar food to me, but she eats two or three meals a day (she eats when the kids eat). She also lost a lot of weight without restricting calories.

                  The "Seven Deadly Sins"

                  • Grains (wheat/rice/oats etc) . . . . . • Dairy (milk/yogurt/butter/cheese etc) . . . . .• Nightshades (peppers/tomato/eggplant etc)
                  • Tubers (potato/arrowroot etc) . . . • Modernly palatable (cashews/olives etc) . . . • Refined foods (salt/sugars etc )
                  • Legumes (soy/beans/peas etc)

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    1



                    Very interesting Tarlach, might have to try this experiment, I have a freezer full of beef at the moment…

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                    • #25
                      1



                      I didn't mean to imply that you were wrong Tarlach, only that I disagreed. You are also correct that not everyone is interested in CrossFit / athletic performance. I think the reason so many CrossFitters monitor portion sizes is because they are trying to improve athletic performance and not just lose weight. Most have found that they need a certain amount of carbs, a certain number of calories, and a certain proportion of macronutrients to maximize athletic performance. Paleo foods in Zone proportions seems to be the one that has worked the most effectively.


                      If I'm reading your post correctly, there were no fruits / vegetables included in his diet. It appears he was eating strictly meat and fat. While this might be effective for weight loss, I wonder what his vitamin profile would look like? Fruits and vegetables have a lot of nutrients and antioxidants that you can't get from meat and fat.


                      I also wonder about energy levels on this type of diet. I had some issues with energy levels and workouts when I dropped my carbs below 150g per day. I am a very active person so this probably doesn't apply to everyone but when you are very active it can take some time to adjust to lower carbs.


                      Everyone has different goals. I don't want to lose any muscle or compromise my workouts so I can't go no carb (or too much below 150g / day). It sounds like you may be able to eat more calories on extremely low carb intakes without impact but I know that won't work for me.


                      Congrats on your weight loss Tarlach. That's an impressive BF% for someone that does not excercise.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        1



                        I did look at the vitamin content of meat recently. It's quite surprising the amount of vitamin and minerals in just a bit of fatty meat. The Inuit live on just meat, so it can't be that deficient


                        Check out cronometer for food tracking (similar to fitday, but offline):

                        http://spaz.ca/cronometer/


                        A good dose of pork belly, some nuts, 20 of beef liver and a bit of broccoli maxes out most vitamin RDI's and most of the default minerals. So it doesn't look like you need a lot of fruit and veg.


                        I have been doing some strength training this year and I'm pretty happy with my gains. I know you get better gains at the begging, but I have pretty about doubled all my weights within 6 months. I tried bumping my carbs, but didn't notice any improvements (and I was just hungry all the time). I'm back to fat for fuel when working out.

                        The "Seven Deadly Sins"

                        • Grains (wheat/rice/oats etc) . . . . . • Dairy (milk/yogurt/butter/cheese etc) . . . . .• Nightshades (peppers/tomato/eggplant etc)
                        • Tubers (potato/arrowroot etc) . . . • Modernly palatable (cashews/olives etc) . . . • Refined foods (salt/sugars etc )
                        • Legumes (soy/beans/peas etc)

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          1



                          I haven't moved on to organ meats yet, though I do enjoy pork belly in the form of uncured bacon. With my current diet, I need the fruits/veggies to get my vitamins (according to my Fitday profiles). I'll have to look into adding organ meat and other low carb sources that can provide me with all of the vitamins I get from fruits and veggies. I'll need to ease my way into it though because dropping below 150g of carbs definitely takes some adjustment.

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                          • #28
                            1



                            I'm sorry but it doesn't make any sense from an evolutionary perspective for the body to not be able to store ANY fat when carbohydrate is not available. Why are the Inuit not "ripped"? From what I've read, the mechanism for fat storage in the absence of insulin is Acylation Stimulating Protein (ASP). Here's an interesting post on it: http://sparkofreason.blogspot.com/2008/06/swift-kick-in-asp.html


                            From the link above

                            "Eat lots of fat, intestines create lots of chylomicrons. Chylomicrons stimulate fat cells to make ASP, which in turn increases fat storage. "


                            and


                            "While it may be hard to gain fat through a high-fat diet, it is likely possible to keep on a certain level of body-fat. Low-carbohydrate diets are known to "stall", where the last 20 or so pounds just won't come off, regardless of carbohydrate restriction. I suspect our friend ASP plays a crucial role here. The low insulin levels on a low-carb diet will allow the fat cells to free fatty acids, but if you are consuming enough fat, at some point this effect will be balanced by that of ASP, and voila, no more fat loss."

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                            • #29
                              1



                              Physical exercise is any bodily activity that enhances or maintains physical fitness and overall health. It is performed for many different reasons. These include strengthening muscles and the cardiovascular system, honing athletic skills, weight loss or maintenance and for enjoyment.


                              Marion Barrett

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                              • #30
                                1



                                The above contemplation is smart and doesn’t necessitate any further calculation. It is great thought from my side.

                                ----------

                                Henry Pollick

                                workouts

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