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Vegan vs. Paleo common ground

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  • #16
    ChocoTaco369 - "2.) Vegan weight loss - poor sources of amino acids, low protein intake, high levels of toxins from heavy grain consumption, soy, legumes, vegetable-based oils and "meat" and "dairy" substitutes and massive sugar consumption lead to "weight loss" as well. This diet promotes the loss of muscle tissue, connective tissue, bone density and emaciation due to vitamin and mineral deficiencies, particularly B vitamins. You may lose more "weight" on the Vegan diet, especially since overall calories are kept low from a lack of nutrient-dense foods (it's difficult to eat 3,000 calories worth of lettuce, bananas, potatoes and broccoli vs steak and eggs), but realize that fat is protected better than muscle on this lifestyle. This leads to the "skinny fat" condition."

    I'm glad that the paleo diet worked so well for you, but from your comments it's clear that you're basing your assertions on opinion only and not actual fact. Veganism does not cause massive muscle and bone loss when implemented correctly by educated individuals. It doesn't automatically equate to low protein intake and overconsumption of grains either. That might be how the handful of hipsters who suddenly decide to go vegan in their twenties with little to no prior research do it, but most of us who go meatless and/or dairyless are genuinely healthy and know better. Even as a gluten free vegetarian most of my protein is sourced from organic non-gmo soy, green veggies, nuts and seeds, and beans and legumes. Small amounts of it come from cheese, eggs, and single servings of heart-healthy sprouted (gluten free of course) whole grains like quinoa, amaranth, sorghum, and certain rices, but that's really just the tip of the iceberg. Meatless diets work fine as long as you do it right; there needs to be a balance of lean proteins, low GI carbs (except for right before you workout when you need high GI carbs), and healthy fats for sure, but that's any diet. I strategically plan my meals so that I never go more than four hours without eating, every meal is constructed around complex carbs and at least 15 grams of protein with some monounsaturated fats, I get 25 to 35 grams of protein in my pre-workout meal and 30 to 50 post-workout, and I get slow digesting protein before bed to help keep hgh levels high. Following this simple gluten free, whole foods, vegetarian diet plan and mixing it with 4 days lifting and 3 session of HIIT per week, I managed a major body recomp. That's to say I lost fat and built muscle at the same time, without meat. So my point is, just because you didn't do it, doesn't mean it can't be done. People need to stop perpetuating the entirely false stereotype that veganism and vegetarianism are bad for you.
    Last edited by VeggieLove; 09-18-2013, 06:48 PM.

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    • #17
      Did you really have to necro a thread from 2011?
      Disclaimer: I eat 'meat and vegetables' ala Primal, although I don't agree with the carb curve. I like Perfect Health Diet and WAPF Lactofermentation a lot.

      Griff's cholesterol primer
      5,000 Cal Fat <> 5,000 Cal Carbs
      Winterbike: What I eat every day is what other people eat to treat themselves.
      TQP: I find for me that nutrition is much more important than what I do in the gym.
      bloodorchid is always right

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      • #18
        Originally posted by magicmerl View Post
        Did you really have to necro a thread from 2011?
        because militant vegan.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by magicmerl View Post
          Did you really have to necro a thread from 2011?
          Vegans are usually miserable so they take it out on people.

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          • #20
            Both primal and vegan would like to see better quality food available to all. Organics for both; grass fed, soy free, and wild for primals. Both believe that their way is the sustainable way to feed the planet in the future. Both believe their way is the best way to take care of their bodies and overall health.

            When we stop whippin' them out and measuring to see whose way is the one true way for all the people everywhere ever, we might actually have a big enough group to put pressure on the PTB to provide those foods - dumping subsidies for GMO crops, or evening the playing field by subsidizing organics for eg.

            But as long as vegans keep calling us killers, and as long as we keep telling vegans that they are stupid, a whole group of people who want to see CAFO and monocropping be part of a bad period in history will remain fractured and impotent. Hmm... I wonder who benefits from that.
            "Right is right, even if no one is doing it; wrong is wrong, even if everyone is doing it." - St. Augustine

            B*tch-lite

            Who says back fat is a bad thing? Maybe on a hairy guy at the beach, but not on a crab.

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            • #21
              People need to stop perpetuating the entirely false stereotype that veganism and vegetarianism are bad for you.
              Veganism /=/ Vegetarianism. Getting protein from vegetable sources without meat products like eggs and cheese and without soy seems to be a huge chore, that requires supplementation.

              I think you can be a healthy vegetarian much more easily than a healthy vegan.

              We can still make common cause on the sourcing of our veggies, though!

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              • #22
                Originally posted by WeldingHank View Post
                because militant vegan.
                Word. Fighting the good fight...... even if it takes necroing dead threads on meat centric forums.... LMAO

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by VeggieLove View Post
                  People need to stop perpetuating the entirely false stereotype that veganism and vegetarianism are good for you.
                  And fixed.

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                  • #24
                    On the fructose issue, I have seen the same commentary by a number of other writers -- that people in Asian countries stay thin, even with a high-carb diet, because their sugar consumption stays low. In my view, it's a valid explanation.

                    As for the vegan vs. primal, I did the vegan thing for 10 years -- and it worked well for me at first. But over the years it became harder and harder to keep my weight under control. In desperation, I finally switched over to primal/paleo in 2001 after reading Ray Audette's book "Neanderthin." I lost the excess weight and have kept it off, without difficulty, ever since (going on 12 years now).

                    So it's a long-term thing. Anyone can show great results either way for a year or so. But see how your vegan friends are doing in five years. You'll be primal and fit, but it's likely that your vegan friends won't compare very well.
                    I have great faith in fools; self-confidence, my friends call it.
                    Edgar Allan Poe

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Neckhammer View Post
                      And fixed.
                      I see what you did there!
                      The Champagne of Beards

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                      • #26
                        I think the bigger question here is., what the fresh hell is RichMahogany's avatar?

                        Is it easily disernable and I just have an IQ of 3 and have the potential of failing
                        even the ink-blot test?

                        Feather with a bat head in the middle and it holding its arms over its head in an "O"
                        pattern?

                        Exploded banana?

                        I can NOT live one more second without knowing.

                        Tell me now, or take a life insurance policy out on me in the next few seconds and
                        then reap the benefits of my death (don't worry, I won't make it look like a suicide).

                        Julia Goolia

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                        • #27
                          Paleo people should eat vegans. We want more meat, which a vegan can provide. A vegan does not want to eat any animals, and being eaten is the ultimate way to accomplish that. They will stop causing the deaths of any and all animals, and they will become food for others - great success!

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by InSearchOfAbs View Post
                            I think the bigger question here is., what the fresh hell is RichMahogany's avatar?

                            Is it easily disernable and I just have an IQ of 3 and have the potential of failing
                            even the ink-blot test?

                            Feather with a bat head in the middle and it holding its arms over its head in an "O"
                            pattern?

                            Exploded banana?

                            I can NOT live one more second without knowing.

                            Tell me now, or take a life insurance policy out on me in the next few seconds and
                            then reap the benefits of my death (don't worry, I won't make it look like a suicide).

                            Julia Goolia
                            It's a beard.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              AHHHHHHH!

                              HAHAHAHAHAAHA!

                              I'm DYING LAUGHING!!!

                              Not at you, Rich, but just that I see it now.

                              Wow, welcome to the blind club.

                              Getting old and stupid sucks.

                              Ah yes... beauty fades and dumb is forever...........................


                              THANK YOU QUIKKY!!

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by InSearchOfAbs View Post
                                AHHHHHHH!

                                HAHAHAHAHAAHA!

                                I'm DYING LAUGHING!!!

                                Not at you, Rich, but just that I see it now.

                                Wow, welcome to the blind club.

                                Getting old and stupid sucks.

                                Ah yes... beauty fades and dumb is forever...........................


                                THANK YOU QUIKKY!!
                                Glad to be of help

                                Comment

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