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How do you process conflicting nutrition information?

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  • How do you process conflicting nutrition information?

    There are *so* many different answers to newbie questions. I've seen people say that VLC is absolutely necessary for those with a lot of weight to lose and others say that it's ultimately counterproductive and hitting the 50-100(or 100-150)g mark is crucial. I've seen people argue passionately both for and against carb cycling/refeeds, and skipping breakfast, and dairy, and high protein/moderate fat, and so on. I wonder how those who've been successful have navigated the initial blast of information, especially with so much conflicting doctrine. What's your process on evaluating claims like these? If you're doing n=1 experimenting, how long do you try each procedure, and how do you measure results? I'd really appreciate input on dealing with this initial overload.

    If it helps at all, I'm a woman with PCOS and a lot of weight to lose.
    Primal goals: metabolic health, vitality, strength, and maybe some weight loss wouldn't be amiss

    My journal: eating-disordered fat woman takes up eating meat and lifting weights; hilarity ensues

  • #2
    A simple information filter: burning fat is healthy.

    Fatty Acid Oxidation
    In contrast to the hormonal activation of adenylate cyclase and (subsequently) hormone-sensitive lipase in adipocytes, the mobilization of fat from adipose tissue is inhibited by numerous stimuli. The most significant inhibition is that exerted upon adenylate cyclase by insulin. When an individual is in the well fed state, insulin released from the pancreas prevents the inappropriate mobilization of stored fat. Instead, any excess fat and carbohydrate are incorporated into the triacylglycerol pool within adipose tissue.

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    • #3
      We all bring to the table different metabolic histories. So seek out the info that pertains to you. PCOS, it is likely you have insulin resistance. A lot of weight to lose, another sign of insulin resistance. Would it make sense for you to eat the same as someone who has never been overweight and has no issues with blood sugar control probably not.
      My Blog: Healthy Living How To
      sigpic

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      • #4
        Yep, definitely insulin resistant (I've had the glucose tolerance test fairly recently), though my blood sugar tends to run low. So I tend to gravitate towards explanations that skew towards avoiding insulin spikes, but have also encountered a fair number of "insulin isn't as big a deal as we think it is"-type stuff. This is kind of what I'm wondering, though: when adopting examples, is metabolic similarity the primary point on which I should be looking for similarity? That would be my gut instinct, but it's kind of tough with so many people sounding so authoritative about their own interpretations and theories.
        Last edited by nimiety; 10-30-2011, 07:37 PM.
        Primal goals: metabolic health, vitality, strength, and maybe some weight loss wouldn't be amiss

        My journal: eating-disordered fat woman takes up eating meat and lifting weights; hilarity ensues

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        • #5
          The best thing to do is find the women with PCOS and emulate what has worked for them. You want to piggyback on the PCOS women who came before you and already figured this shit out. Do not listen to a male gym rat who has never been more than 15 pounds overweight. What works for him is not going to work for you.

          As far as how long to give an n=1 experiment: one of the best things about the Paleo/Primal lifestyle (not just the food plan) is that it really puts you in touch with your body's signals. You will know pretty quickly if something doesn't work. Example: Me IFing through dinner is an epic fail. I knew right away that it SUCKED (for me). So that n=1 lasted all of 3 days, clearly a big NO. I spent all of the summer before last trying all sorts of different IF techniques/windows/feeding times. Other things like what level of carbs will work best for you, I'd give no more than 30 days.

          If this place throws you into info overload (it's understandable), you should pull back, keep it simple, and just go by the book. Most of the Friday success stories don't even come over into the forums.
          "Let food be thy medicine and medicine be thy food." -- Hippocrates

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          • #6
            I've hung around a weight loss forum for a lot of years (addicted I think) and a lot of people seem to think that what has worked for them is THE solution for everyone else. What you want to find out is what works FOR YOU. Start with the basics and see how that goes. If something is not working then change it. If you seriously don't like the sound of something give it a miss for now (eg. skip breakfast, fasting, steak for breakfast etc - not this little black duck). And definitely seek out those other women with PCOS and listen to them.
            Lost the weight using CW. Now I just want to be healthier.
            Lisa's primal-ish when she feels like it journal.
            Feel free to read and/or comment, but don't expect me to listen.
            Distance walked 2012: 321 kms as of June 15.

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            • #7
              You could look into the leptin re-set. Lots of people following that who have a lot to lose, have pcos, insulin resistance, etc. MY LEPTIN PRESCRIPTION | Jack Kruse

              http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread32345.html

              I've been doing it for about 6 weeks and I think it's working really well. I had diabetes and now no longer fit that diagnosis. I'm just insulin resistant and I'm sure I can cure that too.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by TigerLily View Post
                The best thing to do is find the women with PCOS and emulate what has worked for them. You want to piggyback on the PCOS women who came before you and already figured this shit out. Do not listen to a male gym rat who has never been more than 15 pounds overweight. What works for him is not going to work for you.

                just go by the book.
                Two very sound pieces of advice.

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                • #9
                  Learning about physiology really helps me to make sense of information and evidence I come across, but physiology is so complicated and full of unknowns that you can't base all of your understanding on it. You can't even rely too much on how you think physiology logically should work, like what kind effects we should be stimulating, what the role of a certain hormone is, etc.

                  Anecdotal information really tops everything else for me, though to some extent you have to be viewing it through your own lens (this lens is where physiology, evolutionary biology, and personal experience come in). Take in the data others provide, but don't always believe their conclusions.

                  So I could tell you that when I restricted carbohydrates, I had initial energy, appetite suppression and weight loss, then collapsed into fatigue and cravings then gained all the weight back plus some. Then I could tell you that this is because restricting carbohydrates causes a rise in catecholamines which has stimulating effects which you will eventually become resistant to, all the while lowering your metabolic rate and raising your body fat set point. So take my data into account of everything you already know or suspect - as for my conclusion, research it some and put it to the test against your repertoire of anecdotal evidence.

                  btw, I've also got PCOS and TigerLily's advice is good. Do not bother with anyone who has not had or worked with people with metabolic/hormonal conditions like PCOS, because until they do they won't be able to fathom the complexity of the issue, let alone what an effective way of fixing it is.

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                  • #10
                    I have tried the Leptin-Rx and IF. Both have worked for me, although the IFing only worked after I did the reset first. I guess my approach is to try it out, assess how I respond to it, ask for advice if needed, quit it and move on if it doesn't work. Of it works, then I keep going.

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                    • #11
                      The best filter is an evolutionary view of lifestyle. It's amazing how people reinvent the wheel. Anyone eating a paleo diet, at a calorie level appropriate for weight loss, will lose weight. Yes I said calorie! The important thing i that on a paleo diet you are full so don't want more calories, and don't need to count them. People make huge claims about physiology on forums without any scientific literacy, and reading posts by opinionated bloggers doesn't alter that.
                      Like the good people here said see what works for you, but by far the best thing would be to actually stick to the author's description of the primal blueprint/paleo solution/new evolution diet etc for a significant length of time (? a month of really following the eating plans in a book) and see if emulating the ancestral metabolic environment and exercising works for you without going for fad diets that find a home even in a forum like this. VLC would be something to throw in for short periods if you want, but no paleo authors go in for a VLC diet for long periods as it simply isn't necessary and usually won't provide as many nutrients. Intermittent fasting works - it has peer reviewed research showing benefits to weight and insulin sensitivity. It is also very authentically "paleo", i.e. we evolved to do it and it improves our phenotype, and is recommended by all the actual paleo authors. People are led to believe things like "leptin resetting" are magic bullets for the overweight, but it works precisely because it is a pretty low carb diet that will result in lower calorie intake because you're full, just as you would be on any other paleo diet if you ate enough.
                      Basically don't listen to anyone on an internet forum until you've exhausted the books. Women with PCOS and a lot of weight to lose do brilliantly on the PB/PS/NED, because they're roughly how we evolved to eat and exercise.
                      Good luck!
                      The trouble with the rat race is that even if you win, you're still a rat.
                      (Lily Tomlin)

                      I take life easier than almost anyone I know, but when I exercise I do it as though my life depends on it (which it does).
                      (Arthur De Vany)

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                      • #12
                        1. Get off the forums
                        2. Follow the book
                        3. If that stops working, you'll already have a better idea when / why, so you can better come to the forum and emulate other's "tricks and tips."

                        I almost feel like Mark ought to require some level of PB experience (no I don't know how that'd work) before allowing folks on the forum. So many people have information overload / paralysis by analysis.
                        If you are new to the PB - please ignore ALL of this stuff, until you've read the book, or at least http://www.marksdailyapple.com/primal-blueprint-101/ and this (personal fave): http://www.archevore.com/get-started/

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by tiki333 View Post
                          You could look into the leptin re-set. Lots of people following that who have a lot to lose, have pcos, insulin resistance, etc. MY LEPTIN PRESCRIPTION | Jack Kruse

                          http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread32345.html

                          I've been doing it for about 6 weeks and I think it's working really well. I had diabetes and now no longer fit that diagnosis. I'm just insulin resistant and I'm sure I can cure that too.

                          +1 on tiki's advice. Neurologist Dr. Kruse gives valuable advice at his web site on PCOS and how to properly lose weight.

                          THERE CAN BE ONLY 1 BIBLE

                          My rule is to follow only the BEST bible because of the never ending conflicts. All of the conflicting information will drive you crazy.
                          For the very best on diet and medical information I use Cardiologist Dr. Davis and Dr. Kruse Dr. Davis is also the author of Wheat Belly.

                          I ignore anything else that is conflicting with my 2 favorites Bibles. Actually Dr Davis & Dr Kruse are in total agreement with each other, so I have only 1 bible to follow. Both suggest following the Paleo Diet, and IMO both have the very best advice on diet & health matters. MOST IMPORTANT both have impeccable qualifications & a history of success. See my references on Leptin below:

                          Best to you,
                          Grizz
                          Last edited by Grizz; 10-31-2011, 04:32 AM.

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                          • #14
                            How do you process any information? You check it against what you know, what you have experienced.

                            You have to strive to be a complete person. It is not enough to isolate nutrition and look at it as if in a tunnel without air.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by dado View Post
                              How do you process any information? You check it against what you know, what you have experienced.
                              You have to strive to be a complete person. It is not enough to isolate nutrition and look at it as if in a tunnel without air.
                              The big problem with this concept is that what everything we have known for many years is DEAD WRONG. We have been manipulated and Brain Washed by Big Pharma, The Food Industry, and the Medical Industry.
                              * Heart Healthy Oatmeal ?
                              * Breads & Grains at the bottom of the food pyramid ?
                              * Eat MORE "Heart Healthy" Ce rials ?
                              * Take DRUGS for every ailment to mask the symptoms ?
                              * Diabetics are ordered by their doctor to eat the standard High Carb Low Fat diet ?
                              * I could ramble on and on
                              The entire Standard American Diet is insanity squared, resulting in a Sickly, Obese, Diabetic, Dumbed Down nation.

                              Then we discover the Paleo Diet and we know NOTHING. We must start from ground ZERO to re-learn everything. And this is where all the conflicting information makes it difficult & confusing. The conflicting information gets worse as we dig into it. There are even conflicts between various Paleo Books.

                              For these reasons, I have made Dr. Kruse & Dr. Davis my Bible of Health & Nutrition advice. If I have any questions not answered by these experts, ( rare ) then I search Google or MDA for the best answer.

                              Best to you,
                              Grizz
                              Last edited by Grizz; 10-31-2011, 06:42 AM.

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