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  • Challenge-Primal Vs. CW

    Hey everybody, I recently challenged a female friend of mine to a body recomposition challenge. She unfortunately follows all of the misconceptions that conventional wisdom has to offer (5-6 small meals, loads of cardio, not enough sleep, etc.) Anyway I'm following the leangains guide doing exactly the opposite of what she's doing to demonstrate the power of this stuff! I was hoping everyone could critique my plan and let me know what I should change. We set Halloween as the deadline (short term I know).

    Stats: 6'1, 185 lb male, 11-12% bf

    Food: Strictly Paleo
    rest days=around 2000 cals, fat and protein extremely high, and carbs extremely low, sub-50
    lifting days=every 3rd day, protein high, carbs are higher (around 200g pwo sweet potato or squash/fruit) and fat fills in the rest to work calories out to about 3000 on workout days

    Exercise: Lifting Reverse Pyramid Style as Martin recommends with compound movements
    Example: BackSquat RPS
    DB Press RPS
    Weighted Chins RPS
    (All exactly as Martin recommends)

    Other than that I walk in the fasting hours 14-16 once in awhile and I play touch football once a week.

    Any input would be great and wish me luck!
    Alex Peterson-
    Nutritional Consultant
    Creator of The Whole Muscle Diet and the Whole Muscle Blog

    www.wholemusclegains.com

    The authority on nutrition for strength and lean mass gains without the use of supplements, meal-timing, or other unnecessary diet methods.

  • #2
    PaleoAP, you will most likely crush this competition, especially with the androgen advantage. The difference in sleep alone would be decisive. But what exactly are the victory conditions? Pounds of lean mass gained? Improvement in max lifts? Bodyfat measurement? Better nail it down so your friend isn't tempted to move the goalposts!

    I would be curious to know what your exact lifts are on each of your lifting days. Pulling, pushing, legs is the way I do it (but on a seven-day cycle instead of nine.)

    Three weeks is rather short... I hope your friend decides to extend the time frame when you're beating her at Halloween, so you can beat her even more soundly on New Years. Then her New Years resolution can be to go Primal.

    Comment


    • #3
      We're basing the competition on changes in body composition as based on before and after pics. Essentially we're working with body fat. We actually started the challenge last week so its a month long ordeal. Thanks for the support however! We will definitely need to push the time frame past halloween to really prove the primal advantage! Unless she succumbs to the wisdom of Ancestral Health in which case we'll both hopefully be continuing the grokfest! Anyway here's exactly what my workout entails and the weights I use:

      Workout 10/5/11
      -Workouts are reverse pyramid exactly as Martin recommends with the first work set being all-out, shooting for a 5 rep max
      Deep Squats: 2 warmup sets
      Work: Set 1: 245lbx5(max) Set 2: 235lbx4 Set 3: 225lbx5

      DB Bench Press: 2 warmup sets
      Work: Set 1: 180lbx6 Set 2: 170lbx7 Set 3: 160lbx9

      Weighted Chins
      Work: Set 1: 35lbx5 Set 2: 30lbx5 Set 3: 27.5lbx5


      Workout 10/8
      Deadlift: 2 warmup sets
      Work: Set 1: 287lbx5 Set 2: 276lbx5 Set 3: 265lbx5

      Overhead Press: 2 warmup sets
      Work: Set 1: 140lbx7 Set 2: 130x6 Set 3: 120lbx6

      Weighted Pullups:
      Work: Set 1: 35lbx4 Set2: 30lbx5 Set 3: 25x4


      Let me know if there are any adjustments I should be making!
      Alex Peterson-
      Nutritional Consultant
      Creator of The Whole Muscle Diet and the Whole Muscle Blog

      www.wholemusclegains.com

      The authority on nutrition for strength and lean mass gains without the use of supplements, meal-timing, or other unnecessary diet methods.

      Comment


      • #4
        This isn't really a fair fight at all, given how much of an advantage men have over women when it comes to fat loss and muscle gain.

        Comment


        • #5
          She did argue that, but this isn't so much about competition. It's more about me being able to prove to her that meal timing is irrelevant, sleep is essential, and stress/cortisol can kill a diet plan regardless of what you eat. Not to be selfish but I'm just trying to show her that Paleo/Primal is the way to go through my hopefully awesome results!
          Alex Peterson-
          Nutritional Consultant
          Creator of The Whole Muscle Diet and the Whole Muscle Blog

          www.wholemusclegains.com

          The authority on nutrition for strength and lean mass gains without the use of supplements, meal-timing, or other unnecessary diet methods.

          Comment


          • #6
            PaleoAP, that sounds like a good routine. I'm sure it will win you the competition, but since you asked, I would personally fine-tune it as follows according to my interpretation of Martin's advice:

            1) Drop sets 10% less weight than top set with increased reps, e.g. Squat 245x5, then 220x8, 220x8
            2) Deadlift only one top set and one work set
            3) Replace OH Press with Dips (although neither one is on Martin's crucial moves list, I think dips are a better full-body exercise)
            4) Keep warmup sets to 4-6 reps only, at 50%-70% of top set (you may already be doing this)
            5) If you can make 6 reps on the top set, add weight next time

            I'd be curious to know if anybody else would adjust differently. I may have misread Martin; it wouldn't be the first time.

            Comment


            • #7
              I like weighted dips more than overhead press as well but I'm afraid that I won't get enough shoulder work without the press. Are dips an effective method for working the shoulders? If so I would gladly swap those. I will start to drop the weight by 10% after the top set that is good advice. Also, I did 3 work sets for deadlift just to get some more volume in. I guess I just felt like I didn't do enough after the two. But obviously Martin knows more than I do so I will start to follow his DL format.
              Alex Peterson-
              Nutritional Consultant
              Creator of The Whole Muscle Diet and the Whole Muscle Blog

              www.wholemusclegains.com

              The authority on nutrition for strength and lean mass gains without the use of supplements, meal-timing, or other unnecessary diet methods.

              Comment


              • #8
                Martin wrote at one point that he doesn't include OH Press because the shoulders already get a lot of action from other moves like chins and even squats. I do think dips are good for shoulders, especially if you take them low, because they stress the shoulder girdle in a way very different from chins or rows. But again I'd be curious to hear other people's perspectives.

                Here's the article where Martin mentions two-sets-and-done for deadlifts:

                Reverse Pyramid Revisited | Intermittent fasting diet for fat loss, muscle gain and health

                Comment


                • #9
                  Sounds good to me I'll make those changes with dips and DL's. I do have another question however. On lifting days I definitely consume more fat than martin recommends. I have to in order to reach 3000 cals.

                  Today I trained fasted and here was my pwo meal

                  26 oz coho wild salmon grilled
                  32 oz butternut squash grilled
                  1/4 cup dried pineapple
                  1.5 tbsp olive oil for the squash

                  Tonight for dinner I plan on consuming

                  18oz grilled pork chop
                  Another 14 oz squash
                  2 apples
                  1 tbsp olive oil

                  With those two meals the numbers come out to about: 2950 cal, 97g Fat, 236 g Carb, 267g Protein.
                  How are those macros? Too much fat still?

                  Also, I know Martin has said that on rest days ketosis is not necessary. However, I find that in order to get enough protein with fat and stay at or under 2000 cals I only have room for about 50g carbohydrate at the most. Is this acceptable?

                  My rest day looked like this:

                  8 oz 85% ground beef
                  2 servings homemade pumpkin primal soup
                  32 oz chicken breast
                  1/2 avocado
                  1/2 cup salsa
                  1 cup spinach

                  Came out to: less than 50 g carb, about 200 g protein, and the rest fat.
                  Most of my meals have similar macros and calories to this. Will this work even though it is considerably less carbs on rest days and more fat on lifting days than martin recommends?
                  Alex Peterson-
                  Nutritional Consultant
                  Creator of The Whole Muscle Diet and the Whole Muscle Blog

                  www.wholemusclegains.com

                  The authority on nutrition for strength and lean mass gains without the use of supplements, meal-timing, or other unnecessary diet methods.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    The only fair way is her competing against herself. Maybe offer her to creat a plan for her and she doesn't do any weighing/measuring for 4 weeks following it, and see if there is a difference. No matter how much weight you will losoe it will not be a convincing result for her, she will just feel too unhappy if you get kick ass results, and you not getting any results will be completely inclnclusive.
                    My Journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread57916.html
                    When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be.

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                    • #11
                      As far as macros go, I'd say drop the fat down to moderate/low, keep the protein high or higher, and up your primal carbs if you're wanting to workout a lot.
                      http://www.facebook.com/daemonized

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                      • #12
                        For the record, take a full set of body measurements from both of you. That will be much more accurate than before/after photos.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          PaleoAP, I second the suggestion to drop the fat on workout days. You might try having the beef and chicken on the workout day, and the fish and pork on the recovery day. Might want to save the olive oil for the recovery day too. I haven't done the math but expect that would segregate your macros a little more.

                          Incidentally, I've been experimenting with grass-fed beef liver and veggies for dinner (with strawberries for dessert) on workout days, and though I've only done it once (last week), the results were outstanding. I leaned out noticeably overnight and kept it off this whole time. The only problems were that it tastes disgusting (to me) and that I had so much energy the next day that it was hard to take it easy. I'm doing it again tonight since today was my DL/Chin/Row day.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Strong advice Leida thanks for the input. I'll talk with her and see if she'll give it a try. The hardest part will be convincing her that fat is where its at! But I think I could persuade her to give it a shot! I will continue with my plan however and see where it takes me.

                            And I will definitely lower the fat on workout days and up the carbs even more. I just get ridiculously full after consuming an entire squash in one sitting and STILL needing extra calories.

                            Timothy-Where did you get the beef liver? And I'll definitely take some measurements.

                            Thanks for the input everyone!
                            Last edited by PaleoAP; 10-11-2011, 05:50 PM.
                            Alex Peterson-
                            Nutritional Consultant
                            Creator of The Whole Muscle Diet and the Whole Muscle Blog

                            www.wholemusclegains.com

                            The authority on nutrition for strength and lean mass gains without the use of supplements, meal-timing, or other unnecessary diet methods.

                            Comment

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