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Muscle Meat only Diet. what nutrients will be missing?

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  • Muscle Meat only Diet. what nutrients will be missing?

    If one were to eat a muscle meat only diet, no organ meats bone broth and obviously no plant material, what nutrients (if any) would be missing? What nutrients would said person not be able to supplement with vitamins?

    Ive seen a lot of speculation on this site and others about the grim future of a person eating only muscle meats but there doesnt really seem to be any science behind it.
    Primal Chaos
    37yo 6'5"
    6-19-2011 393lbs 60" waist
    current 338lbs 49" waist
    goal 240lbs 35" waist

  • #2
    my guess is the abundance of vitamin b12 and choline. You can get bio available sources of each without eating offal but it just so happens that beef liver is a high source of both and the chances of you becoming deficient in either are lessened if you eat it.

    Linus Pauling Institute at Oregon State University
    Top 10 Foods Highest in Vitamin B12 (Cobalamin)

    As a side note, bone broth and bone marrow also contain high levels of b12. The cheapest source of choline comes from soybean (soy lecithin). There might be other reasons for eating offal but those are the two I can think of off hand. Currently, I don't see any reason why a person couldn't benefit from just using a supplement for the two but I'm not sure how efficiently those vitamins are absorbed in pill form as opposed to the natural sources.
    Last edited by pacificBeef; 10-03-2011, 01:57 PM.
    Currently dabbling in: IF, leangains, Starting Strength, 5/3/1

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    • #3
      thank you pacificbeef, that is the most clear reply ive seen on this subject. I have no objections to offal and bone broth, its just not as convienant, at least for me compared to muscle meat
      Primal Chaos
      37yo 6'5"
      6-19-2011 393lbs 60" waist
      current 338lbs 49" waist
      goal 240lbs 35" waist

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      • #4
        I dont have a definitive answer but this shows you the highest sources of all vitamins and minerals. Not all are animal sources, not to say that animal sources cant give you adequate amounts

        Nutrient Showdown: Best Sources of Vitamins & Minerals | Nourished Kitchen
        www.beatingorthorexia.co.uk

        No more diets. No more stress. Health made easy. Living made incredible.

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        • #5
          I think the "you will die if you do that" has less to do with missing nutrient and more to do with not enough fat. If people died from missing nutrients America wouldn't exist.

          Look up rabbit starvation for a better explanation.

          You might want to read "adventures in diet" (just google, free doc available on some religious website for some reason I can't understand) for a good write-up on a carnivorous diet which included plenty of offal though. Dudes were eating brains fried in lard.
          I used to seriously post here, now I prefer to troll.

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          • #6
            If you want to see other's experiences with one go here:

            Zeroing In On Health - Home
            Lifting Journal

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Mike Gager View Post
              thank you pacificbeef, that is the most clear reply ive seen on this subject. I have no objections to offal and bone broth, its just not as convienant, at least for me compared to muscle meat
              Also, I've read in various places that addictions like alcohol and nicotine along with poor gut flora interfere with the absorption of both b12 and choline. If you don't have any of those problems and are eating a lot of meat and eggs, there's a good chance you're ok. Supplementing and/or eating offal would probably be just hedging your bets.
              Currently dabbling in: IF, leangains, Starting Strength, 5/3/1

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              • #8
                If you'd like to try bone broth and are worried about convenience I suggest this:

                Walmart.com: Crock-Pot 7-Quart Programmable Slow Cooker: Appliances

                I'm as lazy as they come and this has been the answer to my prayers for bone broth. It's a crockpot with a programmable timer that only has 4 settings, 3 of which I never use. I just use the 8 hours on Low. After that, it automatically switches to "warm" mode. I've left bone, meat and broth on this setting for over 8 hours and have had no issues.

                If you're interested in trying, I have a simple procedure:

                1) purchase any type of grass fed beef bone (shank, knuckles, even ribs with bone work out ok)
                2) quarter 1 large onion and arrange bones and onion in crock pot.
                3) add water until completely submerged (it's ok for the onions to float if they do).
                4) add a little distilled vinegar, maybe a cap full.
                5) add some salt and pepper if you want (more on this later)
                6) cover and set it to "8 hours low heat" and walk away

                When it's done, the crock pot automatically sets itself to "warm" and the broth is ready to go. You now have a base for a bunch of things that you'll only need salt and other spices to make it tasty. I've used it in place of water in recipes like spaghetti sauce not to mention soups. You can skim the fat off if you want but I usually leave it when I drink it straight.

                An example of straight up broth:

                Separate some of it into a saucepan for immediate consumption and refrigerate the rest for later.
                In the saucepan, I add salt and dissolve a little tomato paste to season the broth until I think it tastes good. It usually doesn't take much especially if you were generous with the salt from the beginning. My taste varies day to day so I use a lot less during the initial prep stage above.

                Also, if you like miso paste, I highly recommend that too since it's probiotic and convenient, not to mention tasty.

                My other reason for bone broth is that when I accompany it with any meal, it tends to be quite filling and satisfying
                Last edited by pacificBeef; 10-03-2011, 03:30 PM.
                Currently dabbling in: IF, leangains, Starting Strength, 5/3/1

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                • #9
                  what does bone broth taste like anyways? im not really a fan of soup, i got the impression that it was similar to beef broth soup. is that about right?
                  Primal Chaos
                  37yo 6'5"
                  6-19-2011 393lbs 60" waist
                  current 338lbs 49" waist
                  goal 240lbs 35" waist

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    i've got to try this bone broth stuff.

                    my husband will not eat liver, etc. Just won't. So even tho periodically i will cook up some chicken livers or buy brauschweiger, it's not very often. So for the past couple of months, i've been supplementing w/ dessicated beef liver tablets. So far i think it's been very beneficial. In fact, the first few days, i'd chomp down on the tablets & once i got them down, i got the same kind of alertness that i got from 5 hr energy. I guess it's all the B vitamins? Anyway, unfortunately that effect wore off after about a week but i still think the liver pills are a good idea for me.

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                    • #11
                      Have you seen this article. I find it interesting - although it is certainly extrapolation:

                      The Daily Lipid: Anyone Doing Paleo Without Liver, Bones, Skin, and Greens?

                      Another interesting article I read was about an "anti-fatigue" factor that is found in liver. It was a study done in rats where rats were fed either a normal diet, a normal diet plus all the B vitamins know to be found in liver, or normal diet plus actual liver. The rats were then tested for endurance in a swim test. The liver eating rats completely blew the other groups out of the water.

                      Anti Fatigue Factor of Liver

                      Also - I recall reading somewhere that bone marrow contain lots of phospholipids that are difficult to get anywhere else. This is not the original source, but may point in the right direction:

                      Bone marrow fat - Paleo Hacks.com


                      I clearly feel better with bone broth, marrow, and liver in my diet. I agree it is a bit of a pain but once you get in the swing of it, it just becomes second nature. I also believe that if we are going to kill animals for food, we should try to utilize as much of the animal as possible rather than let it go to waste. However, I still don't eat brain or other CNS tissue, or bladder/bowel tissue. Just haven't made it that far yet
                      Using low lectin/nightshade free primal to control autoimmune arthritis. (And lost 50 lbs along the way )

                      http://www.krispin.com/lectin.html

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Mike Gager View Post
                        what does bone broth taste like anyways? im not really a fan of soup, i got the impression that it was similar to beef broth soup. is that about right?
                        ah gotcha. it is very similar to beef broth. If you're not a fan of soup, you can try turning it into gravy to put over vegetables by adding either heavy cream or coconut milk.
                        Currently dabbling in: IF, leangains, Starting Strength, 5/3/1

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Mike Gager View Post
                          If one were to eat a muscle meat only diet, no organ meats bone broth and obviously no plant material, what nutrients (if any) would be missing? What nutrients would said person not be able to supplement with vitamins?

                          Ive seen a lot of speculation on this site and others about the grim future of a person eating only muscle meats but there doesnt really seem to be any science behind it.
                          Oh dear lord.

                          ETA - This "magical" bone broth people tout is merely a simple stock, nothing magical or new there. Bone broth is a sexy name though.
                          I'm just going to ask, why, why would you want to eat nothing by meat? Food is this great stuff, and to needlessly restrict yourself in such an arbitrary manner is just so odd.
                          Last edited by davem; 10-03-2011, 08:19 PM.
                          My Fitday public journal.
                          Me vs. Russian Boar, hunt is on Aug. 20th. WHAT'S MORE PRIMAL THAN THAT?!
                          Recently survived Warrior Dash, New England.
                          Game Developer, ex-Chef, long time Fatbody.

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                          • #14
                            Because I happen to like eating meat and don't particularly like vegetables. What's so weird about that?
                            Primal Chaos
                            37yo 6'5"
                            6-19-2011 393lbs 60" waist
                            current 338lbs 49" waist
                            goal 240lbs 35" waist

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Just go for it. It really doesn't matter if I think it's ridiculous, you have every right to try it and find out. I for one would be curious the long term effects over 2-5 years physiologically and economically. Especially with shipping costs being so volatile and what is coming down the pike.
                              My Fitday public journal.
                              Me vs. Russian Boar, hunt is on Aug. 20th. WHAT'S MORE PRIMAL THAN THAT?!
                              Recently survived Warrior Dash, New England.
                              Game Developer, ex-Chef, long time Fatbody.

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