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High Protien Diet is Bad, mmm kay?

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  • High Protien Diet is Bad, mmm kay?

    So, many of you know already, but my husband has been wanting to try the PB. He has not lost any weight and he's taking a class at the gym on nutrition and weight loss. The teacher talked today about how high protien diets are bad; he only needs x amount (can't remember the number, but it wasn't huge). Anyhow, he's frustrated because he has gained two pounds since starting PB. Granted our version of PB isn't very pure. I think what we've done is just add calories rather than taking any thing away, except breakfast cereal and toast.

    I've also stalled on weightloss, but because of a chronic fatigue problem I have, I haven't been exercising much since the fall. (Grey days and rain cause me pain. It's rained every single day this month here.)

    Signed,

    Stuck (aka Unshod Sarah)
    Woman, Artist, Wife, Visionary, Mother, Gardener, Daughter, Tea-drinker, Friend, Believer.

  • #2
    Our protein needs vary. Some need more than others. Some do better with less protein - figure out what works for you. Occasionally doing low protein is beneficial for your body - where it will scavenge up old proteins.

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    • #3
      Not sure if you are looking for responses or not....

      High % protein diets are indeed bad, especially in a gym context where people are swilling chemical stews of manufactured protein.

      Exercise is not strongly linked with losing weight, especially early on.
      Lifting Journal

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      • #4
        No, I'm talking about meat protiens, not chemical or even in shakes. Maybe we just aren't doing this right. We also have less than 20 pounds each to lose.
        Woman, Artist, Wife, Visionary, Mother, Gardener, Daughter, Tea-drinker, Friend, Believer.

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        • #5
          According to the Perfect Health Diet, high protein is not ideal. My guess is because it puts the most stress on the body. Basically, they advocate 65% fat, 20% carbohydrate and 15% protein calories in a day. Fat is the least likely to create free radicals and fatty foods tend to have the least amount of toxins, so that's a given. 20% carbohydrate is good because it is enough to create glycogen vs VLC, but not enough that your body isn't efficient at using fat for fuel. The 15% protein may be ideal for longevity and dragging out life as long as possible - very, very old people are usually frail their entire lives - but there's a tradeoff of length of life vs quality of life. You may live longer on a high fat/moderate carbohydrate/low protein diet, but I believe you'll have the best quality of life on a moderate fat/high protein/moderate carbohydrate diet. It'll keep you strong, help you perform, you'll be proficient at using both fat and glucose for fuel and the protein will keep you strong. Right now I'm eating about 15% calories from fat, 65% calories from protein and 20% calories from carbohydrate (20g fat a day, 50g carbs a day, 175g protein a day) and it kinda sucks, but it's only temporary. I can tell you as an insulin sensitive and very active 25 year old man, I feel best eating around 35/30/35, which is around 90g of fat, 175g of protein and 200g of carbs in a day, but I lose body fat the best the way I'm doing it now. I need a low fat, cyclical carbohydrate diet to get the fat off my lower belly.

          Of course, when I eat normally, I rarely eat 35/30/35 in a day. That's too much fat and carbs combined in a sitting. I usually eat around 55/30/15 on lower activity and off days from the gym and 20/30/50 on workout days.
          Last edited by ChocoTaco369; 09-28-2011, 03:22 PM.
          Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

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          • #6
            Maybe you need to tighten up PB. Are you still eating grains? What are your usual meals?

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            • #7
              Originally posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
              According to the Perfect Health Diet, high protein is not ideal. My guess is because it puts the most stress on the body. Basically, they advocate 65% fat, 20% carbohydrate and 15% protein calories in a day. Fat is the least likely to create free radicals and fatty foods tend to have the least amount of toxins, so that's a given. 20% carbohydrate is good because it is enough to create glycogen vs VLC, but not enough that your body isn't efficient at using fat for fuel. The 15% protein may be ideal for longevity and dragging out life as long as possible - very, very old people are usually frail their entire lives - but there's a tradeoff of length of life vs quality of life. You may live longer on a high fat/moderate carbohydrate/low protein diet, but I believe you'll have the best quality of life on a moderate fat/high protein/moderate carbohydrate diet. It'll keep you strong, help you perform, you'll be proficient at using both fat and glucose for fuel and the protein will keep you strong. Right now I'm eating about 15% calories from fat, 65% calories from protein and 20% calories from carbohydrate (20g fat a day, 50g carbs a day, 175g protein a day) and it kinda sucks, but it's only temporary. I can tell you as an insulin sensitive and very active 25 year old man, I feel best eating around 35/30/35, which is around 90g of fat, 175g of protein and 200g of carbs in a day, but I lose body fat the best the way I'm doing it now. I need a low fat, cyclical carbohydrate diet to get the fat off my lower belly.

              Of course, when I eat normally, I rarely eat 35/30/35 in a day. That's too much fat and carbs combined in a sitting. I usually eat around 55/30/15 on lower activity and off days from the gym and 20/30/50 on workout days.
              How come you're very low calorie? I don't agree that you need high protein. Old folks start to look frail because of issues with food intake - problems with teeth, absorption issues, alone - don't cook for themselves, etc.

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              • #8
                I was talking about context of the class- gyms tend to be full of people pounding "protein shakes" made of chemicals.
                Lifting Journal

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                • #9
                  How to Eat According to the Primal Blueprint | Mark's Daily Apple
                  Chris
                  "Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass. It is about learning to dance in the rain."
                  Unknown

                  My journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread36279.html

                  My "Program": doing my version of a 4:3 - 3 day fast diet with real food every day, with a little twist of anti-inflammatory mixed in.

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                  • #10
                    I can't see how it makes any sense that high protein diets are harmful. Didn't our ancestors eat mainly meat and fat?

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                    • #11
                      Most of the "authorities" automatically associate paleo/primal with low carb and automatically assume that low carb is high protein. From what I have seen, virtually ALL of the real food diets are much higher in FAT, not protein.

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                      • #12
                        What constitutes a "high protein diet" anyways?

                        Does it include all diets above US dietary recommendations of 70g per 2000cal? (15%)
                        Or... are we talking about diets with 1/3rd of their calories from protein? (150g per 2000cal)
                        Or just diets with the majority of their calories from protein? (+250g per 2000cal)
                        What about bodybuilders following following recommendations like 1.5g to 2g per pound of body weight or lean body mass?

                        It all depends on whose definition you use, the details are everything
                        Are two diets getting 30% and 60% of their calories from fat both "high fat" diets? One could argue both sides, but one definitely has twice the fat of the other.
                        Last edited by Fury; 09-28-2011, 04:41 PM.

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                        • #13
                          Mark: "At a minimum you need .5 grams of protein per pound of lean mass/per day on average to maintain your “structure”. If you are moderately active you need .7 or .8, and if you are an active athlete you need as much as 1 gram of protein per pound of lean mass. That’s at a minimum, but it’s on a daily average. So a 155 lb moderately active woman who has 25% body fat (and thus) has 116 lb of lean body mass needs 93 grams of protein on average per day (116 x .8). If she gets 60 or 80 some days and 110 on others, she’ll still be in a healthy average range. And even if she exceeds the 110, it’s no problem if she’s eating low carb because the excess protein will convert to glucose, which will reduce her effective carbohydrate needs (see below). At 4 calories per gram, that’s between 320 and 440 calories per day in protein. It’s not that much."
                          How to Eat According to the Primal Blueprint | Mark's Daily Apple

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                          • #14
                            Is this a high-protein diet? I didn't think so. My plates are 3/4 vegetables, and I see photos of peoples' eats and they are similar. This board can skew heavily towards lots of meat/a more Atkins style, but that is not what the book says to do. This board skews heavily towards a lot of things. (That's why it's important to read the book, first.) If you are going by the PB food pyramid and also Sisson's media appearances (see YouTube), it's a whole lot of produce. All the bacon, bacon, bacon is sort of a long-running joke. But I don't think newbies realize that.


                            Note what's on the table and in what proportions in this clip. Sisson also has a chance to discuss the PB food pyramid here:

                            Last edited by TigerLily; 09-28-2011, 05:25 PM.
                            "Let food be thy medicine and medicine be thy food." -- Hippocrates

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                            • #15
                              Nora Gedgaudas is also not a fan of the "high protein" idea. She is more into high (good) fat instead. She says:

                              "So, how much is just enough? For most adults the RDA, roughly 0.8 g per kilogram (2.2 pounds) of ideal body weight (e.g., 150-pound ideal body weight (68 kg) — .8 g = 54 g), is probably sufficient for 97.5 percent of the adult population (one of the rare RDAs worth paying some attention to). The average would lie somewhere between 45 and 60 g of actual protein per day for the majority of adults.

                              One study noted that the amount of protein needed to effectively retain lean tissue mass and quality physical performance in athletes was closer to 1.2 to 1.7 g/kg daily, translating to 60 to 80 g of protein per day, assuming adequate mineral intake (Phinney 2004). The same study also noted negative effects if this level of daily protein was exceeded by more than 25 percent of the daily energy expenditure, citing a drop in performance and suppression of ketogenesis."

                              Gedgaudas, Nora T. (2011-06-22). Primal Body, Primal Mind: Beyond the Paleo Diet for Total Health and a Longer Life (pp. 196-197). Healing Arts Press. Kindle Edition.
                              Durp.

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