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its like arguing with a child

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  • its like arguing with a child

    I usually keep to myself about my Paleo infatuation. I rarely even post on here. I am content doing my own thing, reading my books and my blogs. However today I was on facebook and noticed my friends wife posting about weight loss pills. I read through most horrible comments and simply posted "if you like , you can borrow one of my paleo books" . I was rebutted by a young nutrition student who said "don't do a fad diet like paleo, only do a diet consistent with FDA blah blah blah" I usually don't argue, but tonight I felt the need to not back down. I simply stated that paleo wasn't a fad diet and that it short it consisted of a diet low in carbs, no processed foods, high in omega 3 and animal fat.

    Below is the response I got:


    "Selection of high-fiber, whole grain sources of carbohydrates is an advisable practice for weight control and prevention of several chronic diseases. However, severe carbohydrate restriction may lead to ketosis, reduced exercise capacity (due to poor glycogen in the muscles), excessive animal meat intake causes; constipation, headache, halitosis, muscle cramps, linked to colon cancer and linked to kidney stones. Severe carbohydrate restriction and increasing protein intake is not a nutrtionally sound weight loss solution. I have much more information from my textbooks, and professors if you would like to message me. I am always happy to share my knowledge "


    I hate textbooks! and have already rebutted most everything in the copy and paste response I was given.

    I am just curious how most of you would respond... its a shame people are brainwashed b/c of a professor who is likely ignorant of the very subject which they teach.

    thanks,

  • #2
    ::: sigh :::

    1. Chronic diseases didn't even exist until the introduction of grains to our diet.
    2. I get plenty of fiber from all the vegetables that I eat.
    3. Who ever said anything about severe carbohydrate restriction? This is a produce-based way of eating. (See PB food pyramid.)
    4. Who ever said anything about excessive animal meat intake? This is a produce-based way of eating. (See PB food pyramid.)
    5. If it's a fad, then it's a millions-of-years-in-the-making fad.
    "Let food be thy medicine and medicine be thy food." -- Hippocrates

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    • #3
      Avoid those people like the plague. Don't even get into it with them. They are trained to have that sort of discussion end badly for you.

      Comment


      • #4
        I would have responded with "what gives you the idea that the FDA is a trustworthy source for this information, as opposed to actually doing some information and research to discover what science is saying about health and wellbeing? Likewise, I would bet that the nutrition studies at your univeristy -- like much of the government via lobbying -- is underwritten by corporate interests."

        and I know this to be true because Penn state has several ag and nutrition related buildings that were donated by big corporations. the whole thing is really not "food science" or "nutritional science' but "how to market bad science as good science, so that our products sell and we can buy your university more buildings."

        I would then follow up with "I have researched this information extensively over the past X (days, months, years), reading many scientific articles that are referenced in the materials themselves. These are not fads or unsubstantiated claims -- this is real science, from today, that demonstrates how and why paleo is a biologically appropriate and healthy way to eat." And then I might link some articles -- so long as they have lots of science in them.

        Comment


        • #5
          I might just share some links and leave it at that, saying something like:

          "We can agree to disagree. I've experienced so many wonderful benefits of eating in this manner (eating lots of veggies and fruits, high quality meat, fish and fowl, nuts and seeds--just lots of real food) that I'm sticking with it. And its a fallacy that paleo=low carb. Some people practice it in that manner, but that is not necessary. It will naturally be lower carb than the standard American diet by cutting out the sugar and processed foods, but the basis of the paleo food pyramid is veggies and fruit (ketosis is not a requirement, and not even typical among the majority of paleo eaters). If you (or anyone else) is interested in learning more about this way of eating, just check out some of the following resources: Primal Blueprint 101 | Mark's Daily Apple Archevore - Archevore Diet Perfect Health Diet The Diet Robb Wolf | The Paleo Solution book and podcast | Paleo diet, Paleolithic nutrition, intermittent fasting, and fitness Published Research | The Paleo Diet Oh, and for success stories from folks who've had substantial weight loss, reversed conditions like Type II Diabetes, PCOS, high blood pressure, and much much more, check out these: Success Stories | Mark's Daily Apple http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread6138.html http://whole9life.com/2011/06/the-wh...-testimonials/ "
          My Before/After Pics
          Are you new here? Be sure to check these links FIRST, before reading anything on the forum! Succeed & PB 101

          "I am a work in progress." -Ani DiFranco

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Kevina1 View Post

            Below is the response I got:


            "Selection of high-fiber, whole grain sources of carbohydrates is an advisable practice for weight control and prevention of several chronic diseases. However, severe carbohydrate restriction may lead to ketosis, reduced exercise capacity (due to poor glycogen in the muscles), excessive animal meat intake causes; constipation, headache, halitosis, muscle cramps, linked to colon cancer and linked to kidney stones. Severe carbohydrate restriction and increasing protein intake is not a nutrtionally sound weight loss solution. I have much more information from my textbooks, and professors if you would like to message me. I am always happy to share my knowledge "

            What a dweeb. Who actually writes like that -- and on FB, no less?! Sounds like he's got his lil pencil protector in a twist.
            "Let food be thy medicine and medicine be thy food." -- Hippocrates

            Comment


            • #7
              Nutritionists are only taught to follow the guidelines.

              You could try two techniques: Firstly you could just ask how? and why? Let him explain it. If he doesn't give you a causal mechanism keep asking and tell him it's not good enough. Secondly you could do this:

              Selection of high-fiber, whole grain sources of carbohydrates is an advisable practice for weight control and prevention of several chronic diseases
              High fibre in in grains is mostly insoluble fibre, very little benefit there. The good fibre is soluble, he should know that. Paleo has plenty of soluble fibre from fruit and vegetables. 'Advisible practice' isn't explaining why it's good or why it's advised. I just read the dietary guidelines for Australians and their main reasons for grains consumption was because it's easy to farm. Grains are energy dense (not that we care, but he might). Introduce the leptin resistance model of obesity which features grains heavily from prolamines and lectins jointly causing autoimmunity and omega 6 causing inflammation
              However, severe carbohydrate restriction may lead to ketosis
              Ask what the difference is between ketosis and ketoacidosis and how ketosis is bad. Secondly ask if ketosis occurs while we sleep at night and whether it's bad then. (It does occur during the night)
              reduced exercise capacity (due to poor glycogen in the muscles)
              Paleo is a moderated carb diet, not a low carb diet. We eat carbohydrate proportional to our activity levels. Besides has he heard of intramuscular triglycerides. And what about the 50+ of the population who don't exercise? Should they eat high-carb to maintain their 'active' livestyle?
              excessive animal meat intake causes; constipation, headache, halitosis, muscle cramps, linked to colon cancer and linked to kidney stones
              Ask for mechanisms and say 'linked' isn't causal evidence.

              I would keep asking questions until he can't answer them.
              http://thepaleopremise.blogspot.com

              Comment


              • #8
                What an idiot. This is what's prescribed for most people. No wonder we're all fat and sick.

                Screw it, I support idiots like these people. The more overweight, diseased, unhealthy people out there, the better I look. Keep making me look good, CW.
                Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

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                • #9
                  I'm matriculating to med school next fall and you can be fucking sure when I graduate, I'm not going to be an airhead MD who prescribes the standard FDA bullshit

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Please give me the link so I can tell him where his "selection of high fiber whole grain products" can go.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by colejames View Post
                      I'm matriculating to med school next fall and you can be fucking sure when I graduate, I'm not going to be an airhead MD who prescribes the standard FDA bullshit
                      About time.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Yeah, that advice works great. Look around.
                        cj

                        height: 5' 10 1/2"
                        2/20/11: 210
                        9/19/11: 185.5
                        goal: #170

                        "Decide what to be, and go be it."

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                        • #13
                          Speaking from first-hand experience, it's incredibly annoying when someone starts a debate on YOUR comment thread. Take it somewhere else, if you feel it is necessary to hold, such as your own page or private messages.
                          Depression Lies

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                          • #14
                            I wouldn't respond. Health and nutrition has become a hot potato topic like politics, religion, schooling, etc. Unless you yourself are a health and nutrition expert, you have zero chance of causing this nutrition student to concede anything to you and will only discredit yourself further. And if you were an expert you would know better than to engage in such a discusion on FB. If you care about the person you made the suggestion to, send her private message repeating your offer to lend her a book, and leave it at that. We have to fight against the perceived need to defend and validate our diets by recruiting others. Simply be the change you want to see in the world.
                            Grass Fed Beef Restaurants

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by SteakNchop View Post
                              Please give me the link so I can tell him where his "selection of high fiber whole grain products" can go.
                              I'd say "up his ass" but I have a pretty good idea that they'll be coming right back out fairly quickly after they don't properly digest... so it'd be a "waste" of time.
                              Are you a college student, trying to navigate college while being Primal? Do you know any other PB college students on a tight budget? Heck, for that matter, are YOU trying to live Primal on a budget? Enroll at Primal University!

                              For after all what is man in nature? A nothing in relation to infinity, all in relation to nothing, a central point between nothing and all and infinitely far from understanding either.
                              -- Blaise Pascal

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