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  • #61
    I have not taken BCAA because it is so expensive. I tried creatine and Jack3D and whey isolate, but to be honest, none of it seem to have any effect that I do not get from coffee or an egg white. So, I'd rather contribute the money to the organic, whole foods than to the extracts of thereoff.

    I realize that calories and calorie counting are not the focus of this lifestyle, and by no means am I hung up on that stuff, but I still feel confused about how best to gauge what is an appropriate amount of food/energy to be getting to best fuel my workouts and my body comp changes. Being at around 119 now and maintaining, I am not going by weight but by changes in muscle and body comp and performance - and it seems if I want to tone up and continue to lose excess body fat, I would still need to make some sort of changes or deficit along with days of lifting, right? I am trying to scale back because I think I was doing too much / too many days at the gym - also trying to listen to my body in terms of hunger and needs, but does anyone have any advice on what is best at this level of body weight in terms of fuel and still losing fat? I think the answer will probably be PATIENCE but I figured why not ask...
    If I knew the answer, I'd give it to you. I am in a similar boat, only a bit heavier, and had been for 2 years. The ONLY thing that made any visible difference was lifting heavy. The only thing that helps me to keep calories in check is IF.

    The LG suggests 20% over maintenace on lifting days (from starches) and 20% below on non-lifting days. In general, ~ 250-500 calories (or 10-15% of a caloric intake) overoll deficit is a recommendation for men not to lose much muscule mass. But men they tend to keep muscule better than women. The second big problem is that maintenance calories are so difficult to estimate. Sometimes teh body burs more when you eat more, it is kindda crazy, because I maintained both on very low calories (and frustrated as hell), on 1,400; and then I maintained on 1,800 calories, after I ignored an original OMG, BULDGE one the SCALE, RUN, WORKOUT, REDUCE CALORIES impulse!!!

    I think the best indicator for me that I am eating enough is energy level. Chronic fatigue/bad mood=undereating. Weight and body fat just come secondary to the energy level and happiness. Better be happy and bustling at 18% BF than miserable and a wreck at 15% BF.

    Another thing I am thinking about and have been thinking for a while is that 12-15% body fat is considered "athletic" BF level, and athlets, don't they train 6 hours a day? I remember reading about a professional competitive power-lifter day, and yes, it is a full 8 hours commitment between the training, active recovery and extra sleep. Can a person who is not a professional athlete emulate that on 1hour a day of commited efforts & accidental as the rest? Does the lower athletic ability places a limit at what you can do in terms of muscule mass gain and BF loss?

    As you can see, I spent years pondering....

    I am gum-free still, and it is AMAZING! If only dropping nuts was that simple. Cold turkey worked for gum, while cutting it back didn't (I was 7 sticks/tablets a day). The nut container, though. Gah. I untaped the top yesterday morning to make nut butter - because otherwise I was starting to dip my naughty fingers into my daughter's peanut butter (eye roll), and yeah, nuts are fighting their way back. I am not sure how to go around this puzzle (peanut butter avoidance if nuts are not allowed). The only thing I can think of is allowing nuts till peanut butter is done, and then just 'forgetting' to buy it for the daughter for a long, long time, and hopefully that will give me enough time to form a habit of not eating nuts/nut butter????
    Last edited by Leida; 09-14-2011, 05:44 AM.
    My Journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread57916.html
    When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be.

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    • #62
      Hey Leida,

      Thanks! That was all really helpful. I don't think I would go with trying BCAAs either for the same reasons - I think eggs are almost the perfect replacement for anything

      I just feel like ok, so I've got this maintained, and I AM lifting heavier - (and I completely agree that IF just keeps everything manageable and in check. I'm never food obsessed, I hardly think about it, and when I do eat, it is an awesome big meal with healthy whole foods.)

      I cut out nuts completely because I just cannot have them around without eating them like candy. My problem is wine but I seem to be consistently losing / maintaining drinking as much as I do, which is mainly a social thing or out to dinner/ date thing - but I do wonder if I gave it up completely would I see some major results I am missing out on?

      I think in terms of athletes, they must have to eat a lot more calories to maintain that kind of schedule and stamina. I think for people like us, we IF in combo with the lifting, so I think it helps push "normal" people to lower bf percentage without hours and hours and tons of food to maintain that energy level.

      I am working on cutting back a bit on the excessive gym days - I think time to rest has really helped boost me to the next level whereas before I was overworked and my lifts just weren't improving they way they are now.

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      • #63
        Luckily, I've never touched alcohol, but seeing I am still stuck without alcohol and dairy, I doubt they are that detrimental.

        I keep my fingers crossed that cutting down on high-impact cardio will get my lifts off the dead stall. So far I am no better off, but I am trying to rest more & do less. I would believe it works when I can deadlift 180 lbs or bench 85. I don't have any hope left for squat or OHP.
        My Journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread57916.html
        When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be.

        Comment


        • #64
          Originally posted by Leida View Post

          I think the best indicator for me that I am eating enough is energy level. Chronic fatigue/bad mood=undereating. Weight and body fat just come secondary to the energy level and happiness. Better be happy and bustling at 18% BF than miserable and a wreck at 15% BF.

          I am gum-free still, and it is AMAZING! If only dropping nuts was that simple. Cold turkey worked for gum, while cutting it back didn't (I was 7 sticks/tablets a day). The nut container, though. Gah. I untaped the top yesterday morning to make nut butter - because otherwise I was starting to dip my naughty fingers into my daughter's peanut butter (eye roll), and yeah, nuts are fighting their way back. I am not sure how to go around this puzzle (peanut butter avoidance if nuts are not allowed). The only thing I can think of is allowing nuts till peanut butter is done, and then just 'forgetting' to buy it for the daughter for a long, long time, and hopefully that will give me enough time to form a habit of not eating nuts/nut butter????

          +1 I am a much better person in life when I am like this. And really I am not competing in anything, just want to be the best I can be, which should include my overall happiness.

          Have you noticed any results from giving up gum? I have reduced my amount but not giving it up just yet.

          The BCAAs have given my workouts some more energy, but I was working out fasted before. So maybe egg whites or the like would do the trick, but would that interfere with the whole insulin thing?

          Comment


          • #65
            Re: insulin, if you are following LG or IF'ing, then yes, it would kick you out of a fasted state, but the protein wouldn't spike your insulin I would think, egg whites have zero carbs and hardly any cals - but it would interfere with your fasting, though to what degree I don't know. I know Martin reccommends flexing your meal times and IFing with your workouts - personally, with my schedule, I have been IFing daily and working out fasted at lunch and I'm fine with just coffee till my dinner after 5 - but I suppose you could time everything so you stll workout fasted and have your "break-fast" after the workout?
            Last edited by Nocciola; 09-14-2011, 09:19 AM.

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            • #66
              Originally posted by jens522 View Post
              Do you work out before or after work?
              Usually after work. Except when I have something to do after work, I'll go in the morning.

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by Nocciola View Post
                Re: insulin, if you are following LG or IF'ing, then yes, it would kick you out of a fasted state, but the protein wouldn't spike your insulin I would think, egg whites have zero carbs and hardly any cals - but it would interfere with your fasting, though to what degree I don't know. I know Martin reccommends flexing your meal times and IFing with your workouts - personally, with my schedule, I have been IFing daily and working out fasted at lunch and I'm fine with just coffee till my dinner after 5 - but I suppose you could time everything so you stll workout fasted and have your "break-fast" after the workout?
                Before I bought the BCAAs that;s what I was doing, but I felt my workouts were suffering a bit. Even in just the few days of them, I have noticed a change, but who knows it may be mental. HA

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by bwhit View Post
                  Usually after work. Except when I have something to do after work, I'll go in the morning.
                  I thought Martin has a protocol for two pre-workout meals just make sure your largest meal is after your workout.

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                  • #69
                    Originally posted by jens522 View Post
                    I thought Martin has a protocol for two pre-workout meals just make sure your largest meal is after your workout.
                    Yes. I'm trying to figure out the best way to eat two good meals at work. And also what my maintenance calorie requirement is.

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                    • #70
                      Martin (Lean Gain) said that whey isolate was an acceptable substitute to BCAA for a poor man version, and I worked out with ~ 50 calories of whey drunk before during and after workout before I went completely fasted. Now, my schedule is such that I have 2 workouts a week after a meal. To be honest, not much difference in weight lifted/energy. It's an overoll feel that day that matters.

                      I've only gave up gum last week or so, I don't really expect any results. Just happy not to chew.
                      My Journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread57916.html
                      When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be.

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by Leida View Post
                        Martin (Lean Gain) said that whey isolate was an acceptable substitute to BCAA for a poor man version, and I worked out with ~ 50 calories of whey drunk before during and after workout before I went completely fasted. Now, my schedule is such that I have 2 workouts a week after a meal. To be honest, not much difference in weight lifted/energy. It's an overoll feel that day that matters.

                        I've only gave up gum last week or so, I don't really expect any results. Just happy not to chew.
                        Thanks, Leida. How many grams of protein would you say you eat daily? I've upped mine recently.

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                        • #72
                          I have no idea, but I am pretty sure it is at least matches my LBM gram per pound. I know that when I was counting ~ 100 grams was easy (my LBM is about 101 lbs), 130 required efforts, and 200 was undoable.

                          Yesterday I had a 200 g can of salmon, about a cup of egg-whites, an egg and 2 or so tbsp of nut butter.
                          My Journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread57916.html
                          When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be.

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Maybe the BCAAs are doing something b/c I got a PR on my deadlifts. 1RM 170 lbs!

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                            • #74
                              Sweet lift!
                              My Journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread57916.html
                              When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be.

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by Leida View Post
                                Sweet lift!
                                Thanks! I am about 100 grams for protein right now and I think it's a good spot for me right now. I can't imagine digesting 200 grams

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