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Validity of Paleo/Primal? Wheres the evidence?

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  • #31
    Originally posted by RitaRose View Post
    One thing I like about MDA is that you are encouraged to find out for yourself. The two simplest ways to do that are to read and to experiment with your own body.

    As far as reading goes, I've read "Primal Blueprint", "Paleo Solution", "Primal Body, Primal Mind" and I'm about halfway through "Wheat Belly". All 4 are filled with scientific studies and interpretations of the science behind them for the layman. Many of the blogs out there have citations too, so you can see where they're getting their info.

    Experimenting with your own body is also key. Take the information you've gained from your reading and see what happens when you add this or remove that or change the percentage of something. Many times you'll feel right away whether it works or not.
    +1!

    I like combining these approaches too--doing lots of reading/research on the science/whys behind all of this, as well as N=1 experimentation to see just what combination of all I've read works best for *me*.
    My Before/After Pics
    Are you new here? Be sure to check these links FIRST, before reading anything on the forum! Succeed & PB 101

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    • #32
      i find it funny when people make a big deal out of eating paleo..when you really think about it what is the general philosophy...eat clean food..meat,healthy fats,vegetables, and then fruit/carb intake varies depending on the individual..altho we prefer to stay away from grains..and dairy is a soso issue again depending on the person...HOW CAN YOU ARGUE WITH THIS IN ANY WAY? you dont need science to eat a piece of broccoli and go..hmm..no issues happening..its full of vit min antioxidants and fiber..iunno this seems too intense a way to eat let me go pig out on doritos..urgh sucha joke

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      • #33
        I appreciate the huge amount and variety of responses.
        Firstly the fact that so many of you have had success eating this way is great. But im not asking about your personal success. Im asking why have you had success? Is it because you gave up doritos or seed loaf?
        Grains probably didnt exist during the paleolithic era. But how can we be sure its so unhealthy for us when there are a large amount of populations living off of it?
        Eg. Through the course of a week, Person X gets his carbs from grains, legumes, starchy veggies (no restriction on type), nonstarchy veggies, and dairy. Person Y gets an identical amount of carbs from just fruit & Paleo-approved veggies only (ie, no white potatoes, no beans, legumes, etc). Neither have allergies or intolerances to the foods they choose. According to Paleo logic, Person Y's diet is superior because??
        Iv searched through Marks definitive guide on grains-no sources?

        My concern is that even though grains werent around during the paleo days is it really bad for us? Were Our ancestors even eating correctly? Sure we evolved, but many people evolved in different parts of the world on different sources of food. The correlation that has been made between modern society being unhealthy and the paleo population being healthy is extremely speculative. Especially if we consider the other factors like, smoking, alcohol abuse, the general increase in amount of food eaten, the general stress levels of our daily lives etc. Many people have this idea of a caveman being big buff and extremely strong. But maybe they were small skinny and weak. ( I am generaliseing hugely, probably too much).

        But particularily in the context of paleo are their studies that suggest including grains in our obviously healthy paleolithic diets will have any harmful effects?

        And please stop with the science is wrong, my body tells a different story, because you could easily be the exception.

        Also, whoever said they didnt like resistence training, what kind were you doing?

        Also I understand what the individual studies suggest, but were are the individual studies about grains? Legumes?
        Last edited by Jester123; 09-08-2011, 12:15 AM.

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        • #34
          most of the reason grains and legumes are shied away from here on pb is because of the host of enzyme and nutrient inhibitors and gluten predominantly ...but even mark doesnt flat out say no one can eat them he just says they usually take alot of work to just make palatable and that quite a few people have shown major/minor issues with their digestion so overall its better to stay away from them but you dont HAVE too..hes shown quite a few alt. grains like quinoa,rice ...the science is all over the net about the issues with them you dont need to stick to paleo sites to find them..even mark has said you can deactivate most of the baddies by cooking sprouting etc.. only gluten is the big ******** that ppl really have issue with...soo if youre gluten sensitive stay away if youre not cook thoroughly and eat in moderation? loll a big part of it is about what your body tells you just because the science says one thing doesnt mean itll be good for YOU buddy you gotta follow what your body says not what mark or me or anyone else says

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          • #35
            You know, it's quite clear our bodies are strong and can adapt in situations. Some people can lean and be reasonably healthy with whole grains in their diet. However, that is not to say that they won't get issues like IBS, anxiety, depression and inflammation which is common through out the entire world. You only have to do your research on indigenous tribes to find that when they adapted to a whole grain based diet, illness and disease rised dramatically. However, I'm not saying that I could be right, but from the evidence it seems fairly certain that grains are problematic and really just filler in our diet.

            I know scientific evidence is important for some people, but I encourage them to be a scientist with their body too. I personally have no energy, depression and stomach issues when I eat whole grains. Am I gluten intolerant? Not according to my doctor. I find that the majority of people have these problems but we simply mask them as other things for some reason. That's not to say we get this ALL the time.

            See the argument is that it is a good source of complex carbs, but when I eat them after 10 minutes I'm hungry and want to eat more. When I eat Paleo, I feel satisfied and full. As one of the above poster said here, you really can't argue with a natural way of eating as invalid because it's valid in nature in everything that we ate as humans. Observations made can show us what is healthy and what isn't.
            Last edited by ChasePaleo; 09-08-2011, 02:59 AM.

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            • #36
              I understand that completely and I have been reading what mark has to say about grains. I was just curious if any definitive studies have been done in regards to grain consumption being bad. I did find some though. Its interesting to me how quickly people are willing to just drop certain food groups. I mean I did, and only now am i actually looking up to see if there is any evidence to it being beneficial.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by Jester123 View Post
                Grains probably didnt exist during the paleolithic era. But how can we be sure its so unhealthy for us when there are a large amount of populations living off of it?
                A large amount of populations is unhealthy. You're making your own proof already .

                Originally posted by Jester123 View Post
                Iv searched through Marks definitive guide on grains-no sources?
                The Definitive Guide to Grains | Mark's Daily Apple
                That one, yes?

                I have to admit, finding proof in this article isn't an easy job. About grains itself there's only this:
                Study that shows Lectins (found in grains) inhibit the natural repair system of the GI tract

                And then there's studies in favor of a low carb diet (grains = carbs):
                Low carb Reduces prostate tumor in mice
                Low carb reduces epileptic seizures in adults
                low carb diets have been shown to positively impact blood pressure, lower diabetes risk, and reduce both heartburn symptoms and abdominal fat.

                However, I find this article from Mark about grains much better and it links to a lot more studies, so please, read this:
                Why Grains Are Unhealthy | Mark's Daily Apple

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by MvEssen View Post
                  A large amount of populations is unhealthy. You're making your own proof already .

                  Dietary Patterns and Longevity
                  Although carbs are from vegetables, probably not valid. But I was reffering to many asian populations, see Japan in the study.


                  The Definitive Guide to Grains | Mark's Daily Apple
                  That one, yes?

                  I have to admit, finding proof in this article isn't an easy job. About grains itself there's only this:
                  Study that shows Lectins (found in grains) inhibit the natural repair system of the GI tract

                  And then there's studies in favor of a low carb diet (grains = carbs):
                  Low carb Reduces prostate tumor in mice
                  Low carb reduces epileptic seizures in adults
                  low carb diets have been shown to positively impact blood pressure, lower diabetes risk, and reduce both heartburn symptoms and abdominal fat.

                  These studies are very relevent, but not necessarily in a paleo context. Because you could still be living in a high carb diet off of sweet potatoes, fruits etc.

                  However, I find this article from Mark about grains much better and it links to a lot more studies, so please, read this:
                  Why Grains Are Unhealthy | Mark's Daily Apple

                  I remember reading this ages ago but for some reason I couldnt find it.
                  Thank you for your post, one of the most constructive ones.
                  See Bold

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                  • #39
                    No problem.

                    Just two sidenotes on your comments in bold.

                    MDA is about the primal diet, it is not strictly paleo but it's own version of this. The Primal Blueprint advertises a high protein, medium fat, low to medium carb diet. Not a high carb diet. In Primal sweet potatoes are O.K. but not a staple and fruit for sure has it's part but mainly the fruits with low amounts of fructose/sugar.

                    Also in Japan the main staple is white rice. white rice, like sweet patatoes is O.K. in the primal blueprint because unlike most grains it barely contains any anti nutritions.

                    EDIT: About the low to medium carb. This is quite a wide interpretation and can be anything from 0 to 150 grams a day (average). For example some people prefer to stay very low (0-50) all the time. Mark himself prefers 100-150 grams. Some people (mainly for losing weight) stay between 50-100 grams. And then there's some that do high fat low carb with carb refeed days which are low fat high carb.
                    Last edited by MvEssen; 09-08-2011, 04:25 AM.

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Jester123 View Post
                      I understand that completely and I have been reading what mark has to say about grains. I was just curious if any definitive studies have been done in regards to grain consumption being bad. I did find some though. Its interesting to me how quickly people are willing to just drop certain food groups. I mean I did, and only now am i actually looking up to see if there is any evidence to it being beneficial.
                      Why pick on Mark? The primal / paleo world is huge and many people have offered tremendously more research that supports it. Mark makes his articles accessible to average people so doesn't make the science behind it obvious. Doesn't mean its not there, just don't look for it in Mark's posts. You want science? Go to the science people - Look at books and blogs by Cordain, Jaminet, Davis, Volek/Pinney, etc.... All the research you could possibly need.

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                      • #41
                        I understand the philospohy and I guess this kinda became more about paleo etc. than only the primal blueprint. And Just to put it in perspective, I understand the carb refeeds etc. I did eat between 0-50 and i lost over 22lbs, keep in mind im fairly lean. So I have seen lots of success from marks way of eating. I was just interested in the science behind it.
                        My goal is not to pick on mark, i really like his philosophy in regards to training and nutrition. This is just the site that i read the most and I guess i associate him with paleo which is why i referenced him and not anybody else.

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by primalTatoolover View Post
                          i find it funny when people make a big deal out of eating paleo..when you really think about it what is the general philosophy...eat clean food..meat,healthy fats,vegetables, and then fruit/carb intake varies depending on the individual..altho we prefer to stay away from grains..and dairy is a soso issue again depending on the person...HOW CAN YOU ARGUE WITH THIS IN ANY WAY? you dont need science to eat a piece of broccoli and go..hmm..no issues happening..its full of vit min antioxidants and fiber..iunno this seems too intense a way to eat let me go pig out on doritos..urgh sucha joke
                          Amen.

                          "So, you only eat meat and vegetables, and fruits and stuff?"
                          "yep."
                          "no processed or junk foods?"
                          "eh, sometimes, but rarely"
                          "why?"
                          ".... why not? should I be?"
                          "I... guess not... "
                          I used to seriously post here, now I prefer to troll.

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                          • #43
                            the evidence is in how I feel everyday, without the morning slugs and light on my feet, like a panther.

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Jester123 View Post
                              I understand the philospohy and I guess this kinda became more about paleo etc. than only the primal blueprint. And Just to put it in perspective, I understand the carb refeeds etc. I did eat between 0-50 and i lost over 22lbs, keep in mind im fairly lean. So I have seen lots of success from marks way of eating. I was just interested in the science behind it.
                              My goal is not to pick on mark, i really like his philosophy in regards to training and nutrition. This is just the site that i read the most and I guess i associate him with paleo which is why i referenced him and not anybody else.
                              Have you read through any of the scientifically backed links in this thread? You continue asking us to show you the science, then don't look at it when it is provided. Why don't you take some time to really read through *all* of the links/blogs/studies shared here, then come back and ask for more science? (Don't mean to sound snarky--it just feels like a waste of time to be posting a bunch of links to what you are asking for, to see you then continue asking the same question without having read through the multitude of responses.)
                              My Before/After Pics
                              Are you new here? Be sure to check these links FIRST, before reading anything on the forum! Succeed & PB 101

                              "I am a work in progress." -Ani DiFranco

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                              • #45
                                +100 FairyRae

                                It doesn't make sense for the OP to ask us to be the ones to prove anything or do anything other than offer our opinions and experience.
                                The OP needs to go to the sources, especially since he is asking for the evidence in the first place. Its not our job to be presenters of evidence other than N=1.

                                OP, go read the evidence, we told you where to go.

                                Also read thoroughly these forums for many many examples of people's individual experiences.

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