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Coffee and Intermittent Fasting

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  • #16
    Originally posted by DFH View Post
    ... If you put pressure on yourself to do it because you think you have to be trendy, it's a disorder.

    Kind of like shoving 50g of protein down your throat every morning within 30 minutes of waking regardless of your actual hunger level or satiety?

    I'm just sayin'...

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    • #17
      The first thing to consider is the reason, or goal behind the fast. If you're going for a ketogenic fast, then you want to limit carbohydrates, since it's a lack thereof that turns on ketogenesis. Or you might be fasting to turn on autophagy, in which case the primary macro to restrict is protein. In either case small amounts of either won't hurt (it's really more of a spectrum than an on/off thing), and fat is generally benign with respect to not breaking the fast. Of course if you're fasting for calorie restriction then you'll want to limit anything at all caloric, but I wouldn't worry about it until you hit about 100kcals, maybe more depending on the exact parameters of the fast.

      EDIT:
      Originally posted by befitby40 View Post
      Kind of like shoving 50g of protein down your throat every morning within 30 minutes of waking regardless of your actual hunger level or satiety?

      I'm just sayin'...
      That's a low blow. While it may be an extreme response, you're missing at least 2 important points: it's not actually harmful, and more importantly, it doesn't really say anything about the person's relationship with food. You might as well say that people who stuff themselves because they want to gain muscle mass and can't do so otherwise have an eating disorder. You really have to look at how rational the person concerned is with regards to food, and the leptin reset approach is quite rational. If someone can manage to eat 300g of meat within 30 minutes of waking up and not become turned off by the general idea of food then they're fine. Besides, as I understand it that's the only time you ignore satiety under that procedure.
      Last edited by AndreaReina; 08-18-2011, 07:37 PM.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by DFH View Post
        I think Paleo's "IF" policy should be do it if your system is working fine, and you feel like skipping meals once in a while. Planning out 24 hrs or more is just another form of eating disorder.
        You've gone so far off the reservation, I'd appreciate it if you sent me a clever post card. Like maybe a caricature of Mr. T sitting in the lincoln memorial.

        From wikipedia:
        Eating disorders refer to a group of conditions defined by abnormal eating habits that may involve either insufficient or excessive food intake to the detriment of an individual's physical and mental health
        Emphasis mine. I fail to see detriment here, and you basically missed the OPs question. Or is this just a spleen vent?

        ETA - read more of the thread, clever boy, it's a spleen vent!
        Last edited by davem; 08-18-2011, 09:26 PM.
        My Fitday public journal.
        Me vs. Russian Boar, hunt is on Aug. 20th. WHAT'S MORE PRIMAL THAN THAT?!
        Recently survived Warrior Dash, New England.
        Game Developer, ex-Chef, long time Fatbody.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by AndreaReina View Post
          That's a low blow.
          However it was pertinent and well played. It's just another dogma with faithful zealots, adherents, and those amused by it.
          My Fitday public journal.
          Me vs. Russian Boar, hunt is on Aug. 20th. WHAT'S MORE PRIMAL THAN THAT?!
          Recently survived Warrior Dash, New England.
          Game Developer, ex-Chef, long time Fatbody.

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          • #20
            I feel so wonky when fasting I don't even want coffee. But it drink it, it's like 10x the kick I'm expecting, and I feel the bile pouring into my stomach.
            Crohn's, doing SCD

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            • #21
              Originally posted by AndreaReina View Post
              That's a low blow. While it may be an extreme response, you're missing at least 2 important points: it's not actually harmful, and more importantly, it doesn't really say anything about the person's relationship with food.
              No lower than DFH's original response/rant to the OP who just simply wanted to know if coffee would break his fast. As to your 2 points. So are you saying that a 24 hr fast is harmful? Because I'm pretty sure Mark Sisson and even Dr. Kruse would disagree. I don't really get your second point. It also sounds like your inferring that if someone can't eat 300g of meat first thing in the AM, they're somehow not fine? Believe me, I love food, I love red meat and the thought of that sickens me. But then again I could barely force myself to eat a bowl of cereal in the AM on the SAD.

              I'm really not here to argue POVs or anything else. I'm not an expert or a success story. I've pushed the keyboard away enough but If DFH's sudo definition of a disorder is...
              Originally posted by DFH
              ...If you put pressure on yourself to do it because you think you have to be trendy, it's a disorder.
              Then that same applies to the Leptin Reset trend. Call it a low blow if you like. They're his words not mine. I simply pointed out the "trendy" connection.


              DFH,

              I'm fairly new to this forum, but damn near every thread with the word "fast" in it has you telling people essentially they're wrong (Probably somewhat of an exaggeration). Look, If you don't agree with the OP's POV or have nothing to add to a thread then why not simply move on? It's not a positive reflection of the community and certainly not a good reflection of yourself IMO.


              Going Primal really mellowed me out. I see that's not the case with everyone.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by befitby40 View Post
                No lower than DFH's original response/rant to the OP who just simply wanted to know if coffee would break his fast. As to your 2 points. So are you saying that a 24 hr fast is harmful? Because I'm pretty sure Mark Sisson and even Dr. Kruse would disagree. I don't really get your second point. It also sounds like your inferring that if someone can't eat 300g of meat first thing in the AM, they're somehow not fine? Believe me, I love food, I love red meat and the thought of that sickens me. But then again I could barely force myself to eat a bowl of cereal in the AM on the SAD.
                Fair enough, I kinda skimmed through some of the posts and missed some of the byplay. Mea culpa. Actually I think that DFH's caution with regards to IF is a little excessive, I don't think that eating once every 24 hours is necessarily harmful (disclaimer, I don't know what the studies on the subject say), though I think he does get it right on regular, longer fasts. Neither do I think that not being able to eat said meat is a problem -- I personally would find it difficult as my appetite on waking is almost always quite low. I'm trying to gain weight (not going too well) so I actually do force myself to eat in the mornings. However it doesn't contain any emotional connotations for me and how I feel about food (still love it ) hasn't changed, so even though I am forcing myself it's a far cry from anything I'd call a disorder. Similarly, eating only once a day, even if you have to experience some hunger through the day, is not necessarily a bad thing as long as the reason behind it remains rational.

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                • #23
                  Stating the usual disclaimer that IF is not for everyone, my suggestion is that on a thread dedicated to an IF issue, any person providing a blanket response along the lines of “eating disorder” or “trendy” should either follow with evidence of how individuals engaged in and or using IF (defined as IF – i.e Lean Saloon, Lean Gains, or as advocated by Mark Sisson or other similar reasonable program) have lost body fat and gotten healthier, both mentally and physically, when they stopped doing IF, or they should just be ignored. In other words, provide evidence that you have tried IF along the lines of the previously mentioned programs, and then show us how much you’ve improved by no longer doing IF.
                  For those of us who have woken up to the fact that IF is actually the “normal” and healthy way to eat, all the other BS just becomes background noise. It’s an experience, not an explanation, and the results speak for themselves.

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                  • #24
                    Also to the original poster some people even drink coffee with cream in it and don't consider it an interruption of their fast. Johnny from theleansaloon is who I am referring to specifically.


                    (and my apologies for my part in the derailing of the thread)
                    http://www.facebook.com/daemonized

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                    • #25
                      Daemonized, you always seem to be comfortably living at the place I'm striving for.
                      Sounds like that Warrior Diet thing.

                      Am not there yet. In the meantime, both that guy and leangains seem to suggest that some protein in the afternoon on days you work out is fine, even with their intermittent fasting routines.

                      I also drink about a pot of coffee.
                      No weight loss issues with that, as far as I've noticed, but I'm guessing it's not the best thing for me.

                      Need to work on that bit....

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