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Health, not weight

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  • Ya'll just need to go out for a run, and get some endorphins going.

    All this keyboarding commandoing really doesn't do much for anyone involved.
    My Fitday public journal.
    Me vs. Russian Boar, hunt is on Aug. 20th. WHAT'S MORE PRIMAL THAN THAT?!
    Recently survived Warrior Dash, New England.
    Game Developer, ex-Chef, long time Fatbody.

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    • Originally posted by zoebird View Post
      Originally posted by Sue View Post
      Not so. Its uncomfortable having a big belly, bending down to put your shoes and socks on, playing with the kids etc.
      while i can acknowledge that this is true and likely, my experience with "fit-fat" people is that they can do this without any struggle. but of course, many of them practice yoga, and their movement is fluid, graceful, and flexible. So, there's no problem bending down to put shoes on, or playing with children, or climbing trees for that matter.
      As a representative of the "fit fat" population, I can testify to a big belly being very uncomfortable, even though I'm supposedly healthy and fit (depending on who you ask, of course).

      At 250lbs+ with a ~40" waist, I managed to run 2 miles in 20 minutes, do sets of weighted dips, body-weighted pull-ups and chin-ups, but I had to sit down on a chair to tie my shoes, because when bending down, my belly would be in the way, resulting in an uncomfortable position, which if prolonged, ended with me getting dizzy and nauseous.

      There are also other problems with having a big belly, like having to unbutton my pants if seated for an extended period and not being able to tuck my shirt in without having a very visible, and unflattering, "overhang".

      As I said in an earlier post, this has more to do with function than health IMO, but I do prefer a body with optimal "functionality" to one with annoying limitations.
      Last edited by norak; 08-17-2011, 02:45 AM.
      Norak's Primal Journal:
      2010-07-23: ~255lbs, ~40.0"
      2011-11-03: ~230lbs, ~35.5"
      2011-12-07: ~220lbs, ~34.0"

      Comment


      • yup. i love griff's posts, but this sounds like defeatism cloked in confidence.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by jakey View Post
          yup. i love griff's posts, but this sounds like defeatism cloked in confidence.
          QFT


          Originally posted by Griff View Post
          Several points:

          1) I do not see the point of exercise. I do not like it, it's boring, it's not fun, it makes me sweat (which is disgusting), and it occasionally hurts. These, to me, are all really good reasons not to do it. We do not live in a world where we have to run away from tigers any more. Therefore, I have better things to do with my time.
          Why are you even doing primal? Just like our bodies are not supposed to have a constant inflow of processed foods, they are also not supposed to be sedentary. We don't live in a world where we have to hunt and gather food from nature, but we simulate it because it's what our bodies are made to do, and is healthier for them. Getting nothing out of exercise except discomfort doesn't sound healthy to me. A healthy mind/body likes to be active. To you those may seem like good reasons but most people would say they are immature excuses.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by dboxing View Post
            Yes, and they are kept alive by modern pharmacology. Take away their various medications and see what happens. Even the modern drugs don’t help much beyond 80ish. Ever seen a fat centarian? It’s sad that people can’t admit that it is unhealthy to be fat. Is being “overly thin” unhealthy, sure. But for most folks that’s the exception, not the rule. The bottom line is folks on here are deluding themselves if they think 290 pounds for an average person is healthy. This place has become a joke.
            Most of the overweight people that are in their 60's and 70's have probably not been eating a primal diet. So it is impossible to determine if it is obesity that is causing health issue for them or if it is poor diet. If one consumes a primal diet but isn't at their optimal weight, can you really say they can't be healthy? Those studies haven't been done.

            For example, hypertension is a major cause of stroke and heart disease. Hypertension is associated with obesity. But many people find their blood pressure normalizes very early after starting a primal diet - even before they have lost weight. So by eliminating hypertension an overweight primal person has dramatically reduced the odds of getting two significant causes of morbidity and mortality in overweight people. The same goes for blood glucose control.

            What I have the hardest time understanding is why on earth you would become so aggressive over the weight of another person. You have clearly been brainwashed in to believing that an overweight person is less than human and should be treated however you see fit. Even if they are more likely to develop disease later in life, it is very strange to me that a person could develop such bigotry regarding someone else's body.

            Sad.
            Using low lectin/nightshade free primal to control autoimmune arthritis. (And lost 50 lbs along the way )

            http://www.krispin.com/lectin.html

            Comment


            • Originally posted by weird fish View Post
              Why are you even doing primal? Just like our bodies are not supposed to have a constant inflow of processed foods, they are also not supposed to be sedentary. We don't live in a world where we have to hunt and gather food from nature, but we simulate it because it's what our bodies are made to do, and is healthier for them. Getting nothing out of exercise except discomfort doesn't sound healthy to me. A healthy mind/body likes to be active. To you those may seem like good reasons but most people would say they are immature excuses.
              Not to speak for Griff (who is more than capable of speaking for himself!), but my impression is that he walks but does not do intentional exercise, so he hits the move slowly but misses on the sprint and LHT parts of primal activity. That's not the same as being sedentary.
              “If I didn't define myself for myself, I would be crunched into other people's fantasies for me and eaten alive.” --Audre Lorde

              Owly's Journal

              Comment


              • Saying that 290 isn't a good weight doesn't mean that skinny-fat is any better.
                Griff sounds like he has psychological issues regarding his weight. He feels safer with a bigger mass.
                There is the issue of loose skin if someone was very obese that can be quite hard to cope with and has to be dealt with plastic surgery if one can afford it.
                Griff are you intentionally over-eating to not lose more fat or is low carb just not as effective for you anymore?
                Last edited by Sue; 08-16-2011, 06:04 PM.

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                • I think being about 30 pounds overweight, if that, would be where to draw the line of where one should be. it is probably best to be at a healthy bodyfat percentage and not obese. i don't think anyone can be healthy obese. I was at my healthiest when all of my pcos and ir problems started, gained a ton of weight, and now i am in the obese range and have to work hard to get my hormones regulated. I would not say where I am now is healthy even though I eat right and excerise. if i knew then that i was pre-disposed at getting pcos/ir/hormone issues at age 19, I would have had a chance to research it more and found MDA earlier and ease the weight gain/hormones/health issues. Being at the lower range of my healthy bodyfat percentage would probably be best to manage/avoid further issues, that's my goal now anyways.
                  Last edited by primalprincess7; 08-16-2011, 06:18 PM.
                  I'm too stubborn to give up so I keep on trying.

                  You're never going to get to the top of the stairs if you don't walk up them.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by dboxing View Post
                    You'll never live past 70 at 290 pounds. You just won't. All heathly elderly people have one thing in common, they are not fat. Check out anyone really old, they may have smoked, drank, any and all other excesses, but they will not be fat.
                    You are incorrect. Many old people are fat. Also, most old people eat much differently than younger people. Carbohydrates were not the staple they are today in the past.

                    Comment


                    • How do old people eat? I know old people tend to be protein deficient as they just don't bother cooking up a proper meal if living alone or don't digest as well.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by dboxing View Post
                        I won’t take the time to punch all the holes in your story, sufficient to say that you prove my point when you say they are improved when they get their diet in order, exercise, and LOSE WEIGHT. Btw, the average life span for a professional football player is 55. I'm not sure that having a student that is 5'4'' 200 pounds says much about your abilities.
                        And these professional football players are stuffing their faces with carbs while getting bonked on the head.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Griff View Post
                          1) I do not see the point of exercise. I do not like it, it's boring, it's not fun, it makes me sweat (which is disgusting), and it occasionally hurts. These, to me, are all really good reasons not to do it. We do not live in a world where we have to run away from tigers any more. Therefore, I have better things to do with my time.
                          I do not like it on a boat, i do not like it in a moat. I do not like exercise, sam i am.

                          this attitude is painfully familiar to me because i was raised with it as it is similar to my mother's bizarre attitude toward exercise & sweating. She thinks performing sports is stupid, and only for stupid "meatheads" (does that ring a bell?). When i told her i did the Ouachita Challenge, riding 60 miles offroad on my mtb on those Arkansas hills, her only response was "Catherine, that's why we have cars." She thinks it's better for her to spend her time to do "smart" things that "meatheads" can't. Uhhh like watching CNN or the history channel or reading some stupid fiction book. (She's actually incredibly stupid, so it's almost comical to watch her because altho she thinks "sports" is below her dignity to partake in, she follows all team sports quite feverishly and can trade useless baseball stats with anyone. I think there's something really wrong with her.) But anyway enuff about her. I just hear what you're saying and it takes me back 20 years. I'm not saying you watch CNN or read stupid fiction books.

                          What i would like to suggest to you is TRAILS! Find a trail. One with roots and rocks and hills, etc. Walking or running or cycling on TRAILS actually engages your mind quite a bit. You cannot zone out like on asphalt or groomed paths or you will wipe out or have some other unpleasant incident. You have to pay attention. You can't just tromp on leadenly thinking "this sux", which is something i kind of find myself doing on flat paved stuff. Trails are like a puzzle. If you think you have to engage your mind 24/7, maybe you should consider hitting the trails. I swear it won't feel like "exercise". I hate exercise. I like to have fun. I came to athletic endeavors & just flat out getting outside late in life and i'm sad for the years i've missed out on it.
                          Last edited by Catherine; 08-16-2011, 07:11 PM.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Catherine View Post
                            I do not like it on a boat, i do not like it in a moat. I do not like exercise, sam i am.
                            Listen, you can only bring a horse to water, you can't shoot it until it drinks. Griff, and everyone else for that matter will find their way, eventually. Hopefully, that way will make them healthy, but often it won't. You can only provide them with the knowledge that they have here, and that's that.
                            My Fitday public journal.
                            Me vs. Russian Boar, hunt is on Aug. 20th. WHAT'S MORE PRIMAL THAN THAT?!
                            Recently survived Warrior Dash, New England.
                            Game Developer, ex-Chef, long time Fatbody.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Owly View Post
                              Actually, despite our idea that healthy seniors are thin, being overweight (over 25 BMI but under 30) is associated with a similar or slightly longer lifespan to those of "normal" body weight. In fact, up until 1988, a BMI up to the 27 range was considered healthy. Being underweight (<18.5 BMI) is as dangerous as being obese.
                              My understanding is once you eliminate those subjects who are underweight as a result of sickness, there is actually increasing lifespan with lower and lower BMIs.

                              I should also point out that Venus, et al. are mythical creatures. They were given hot, sexy bodies from the imaginations of artists, blessed with little waists, big breasts, and shapely hips -- a body type as rare and special as those models with bodies of six-year olds. Anyway, even Venus wasn't obese, just sexily-figured with exaggerated feminine features. I think we can all agree that the overweight of the nation do not look like Venus. That would be cool though.

                              I think: its always a good thing to have a solid, healthy point-of-view on your body and your weight. There is probably little more poisonous than disharmony with oneself -- I really, really believe that. I also doubt obesity is often healthy; if a person is healthy and obese, I would expect that to be a serious exception. But maybe thats because its just so easy to attain overfat in unhealthy ways and harder to attain in healthy ways (yet still possible??). I don't know, but its titillating to think about: someone will have to grossly overeat pastured meats, coconut oil, raw, cultured dairy, and veggies and let us all know. I started to gain myself this way but I am too vain to take it all the way.
                              Last edited by Orchid; 08-16-2011, 10:28 PM.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Griff View Post
                                Several points:

                                1) I do not see the point of exercise. I do not like it, it's boring, it's not fun, it makes me sweat (which is disgusting), and it occasionally hurts. These, to me, are all really good reasons not to do it. We do not live in a world where we have to run away from tigers any more. Therefore, I have better things to do with my time.

                                2) My goals are not about weight. They never have been. They never will be. If I was still 400 pounds and no longer had diabetes, arthritis, or IBS, I would consider my story a successful one. I do not see any point in having a weight goal; it's counterproductive. Remember, I was a fat activist before I came here. That hasn't changed.

                                Additionally, I've been fat my whole life, and I do not think I'd look good thin. In fact, just being thinner than I was has been very difficult for me psychologically. I do not feel as safe as I did when I was 400. I like being big, I like being substantial, and I like not being muscular. I don't think thin (or athletic) is attractive generally. The more muscles you show, the uglier I think it is. I think that ripped/muscular is unattractive. I'm not changing my mind on this.

                                3) To the people who say that this place has turned into a "venerate the fat people" place, well, now you know how it felt for me last year when it was all about being a ripped athlete and fat people were considered outsiders. Cope. (And the "ripped meathead athlete" comment? That's how it feels to a fat person when you imply that we must be stupid because we're fat.)

                                I know it may be hard for some people to believe, but some of us are not here to become athletes. Some of us actually find being an athlete to be pointless. Some of us have better things to do with our time than waste it doing pointless, painful, boring workouts. Exercise is categorically not fun for me, it never has been, and it never will be. You like it? More power to you. Don't tell me I should waste my time doing it just because you think it's fun.

                                4) In the two years I've been here, I've helped people understand the reality behind the cholesterol hypothesis. I've helped a lot of people who were sick and tired become less so. Apparently I've inspired some people to start or to continue on the Primal path. But despite those contributions, how much I weigh is somehow more important than what I do with my brain and my time here to a lot of people. So let me suggest something to those of you who just can't cope with my being a healthy (meaning not disease-ridden), fat man: if my being okay with being 290 pounds and not an athlete irritates you so much, there's this function called "ignore." Feel free to use it.
                                Having to read through posts by people like Griff here everyday, on every thread, makes the nutrition forum a very misleading and dangerous place. The amount of obese, rationalizing, enableing, apologists around here is unacceptable.... and maybe even worse than much of the conventional wisdom everyone condemns dogmatically here.

                                At least Griff had the stones to out himself; what about the rest of you? Many of you are propping each other up on this very thread!

                                .
                                There is a huge difference between talking about how to do something and getting it fucking done.

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