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Insulin doesn't make you fat.

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  • Insulin doesn't make you fat.

    Great article over at Whole Health Source explaining, everyone should read it.

    Whole Health Source: The Carbohydrate Hypothesis of Obesity: a Critical Examination
    "One can only be a perfect physician for oneself alone. " ~ Luigi Cornaro

  • #2
    Knew that was coming...

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    • #3
      from the link

      As we are all on the same page (I hope) that the first law of thermodynamics applies to humans, for insulin to cause fat gain, it must either increase energy intake, decrease energy expenditure, or both.
      either that or it is part of a much larger and more complex system, of which insulin plays a vital role and is easy to measure but is not the whole story.
      ************************************************** ********
      39 years old, 6'5" tall (195cm) 300 pounds (136kg)
      Started primal living in April 2011
      Start Weight 375 pounds (170kg)

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Wally_B_Sr View Post
        either that or it is part of a much larger and more complex system, of which insulin plays a vital role and is easy to measure but is not the whole story.
        an idea of what that larger or more complex system might be?
        "One can only be a perfect physician for oneself alone. " ~ Luigi Cornaro

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Red Wire View Post
          an idea of what that larger or more complex system might be?
          Leptin
          Primal Chaos
          37yo 6'5"
          6-19-2011 393lbs 60" waist
          current 338lbs 49" waist
          goal 240lbs 35" waist

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          • #6
            the human body?

            I mean, the human body is a massive, complex system -- it's not just therodynamics. It's predominately hormones -- and how our body reacts to everything that is coming in, how it uses it, and so on. If it was just thermodynamics, then we would be able to utilize transfats -- because, in theory, transfats are just fats and they can be burned for fuel. But, our body has no clue what to do with transfats, so it stores it.

            that's just one example, and yes, the article is flawed. but, i don't really care. I eat plenty of carbs.

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            • #7
              I don't know what to believe anymore. I never could view insulin as the reason for my fatness because my insulin levels are fine. Something's fueling my fatness, which I've always blamed on my weakness for processed junk foods. But then I shake my head in confusion when I look at my friends and family members who eat more junk than I ever did while doing less exercise, but they stay thin. Why did I gain weight but they didn't is the million-dollar question.
              I'm retraining and strengthening my taste buds, one primal meal at a time.

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              • #8
                So nice to see a critique of Taubes's carbohydrate hypothesis by someone who has taken the time to read and understand it, refrains from ad hominem attacks, doesn't claim that Taubes is stating that "thermodynamics do not apply", and doesn't once use the term "straw man".

                It's about time. There are holes in Stephan's argument, as there are in Gary's, and neither will be turn out to be completely right in time, of course. But at least this moves the discussion forward in a productive way - folks are just too darn preoccupied with being "right". I'm looking forward to a response from Gary.
                sigpic

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                • #9
                  Well...

                  Yeah. I agree. But I agree with all those people who say that it's really quite complex when you REALLY look at how it works, with insulin and leptin and a billion (no exaggeration) other chemical interactions flying around.

                  But in the end? Rule of thumb for day to day life that's likely to lead to the most success?

                  A calorie is a calorie and calories in calories out.
                  With the corollaries of:
                  Fat does not make you fat, fat is just calorie dense and you can overeat a lot of extra calories if you don't watch fat portions.
                  Sugar, carbs, etc don't make you fat either, it's just very appetite-stimulating for most people. So, if you don't watch portions, it's also easy to eat a lot of carbs and therefore a lot more calories. In addition to be hungrier and therefore likely eating MORE carbs and more calories and so on.

                  But no, insulin doesn't make you fat. Extra calories make you fat.

                  Technically, you could make yourself fat eating only lettuce and carrot sticks. It would be HARD, but it's possible. It's ultimately just a hell of a lot easier to make yourself fat with cupcakes. So people do it more.

                  Addendum: I don't claim to know everything about nutrition or even be an expert.
                  Getting my Grok on in the Pacific Northwest.

                  "C is for cookie, that's good enough for me."
                  "Cookie is a sometimes food."
                  "Sometimes cookie monster eat APPLE instead of COOKIE. Sometimes eat CARROT."
                  -Cookie Monster, partially reformed sugarholic

                  "

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                  • #10
                    CandylandCanary - I think you may be missing the point of this debate. Both Stephan and Gary would agree that consuming more energy than you expend will result in fat gain. Saying "extra calories make you fat" doesn't explain anything. The question is why some people consume more energy/calories than others, which is what the debate is about.
                    sigpic

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by jturk View Post
                      I'm looking forward to a response from Gary.
                      Me too. But I'm not holding my breath. If he responds at all, my guess is three months. The holes in his theory were obvious before and he's managed to ignore them. I expect more of the same. It was stupid of him to challenge Stephan, even if the food reward theory appears to have as many holes in it as the carbohydrate hypothesis. Glass houses is right.

                      Gordo

                      Gordo

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                      • #12
                        CandylandCanary - I think you may be missing the point of this debate. Both Stephan and Gary would agree that consuming more energy than you expend will result in fat gain. Saying "extra calories make you fat" doesn't explain anything. The question is why some people consume more energy/calories than others, which is what the debate is about.
                        I probably am missing the point. Sorry, it's a friday afternoon in high summer and reading comprehension is hard apparently. On my part, lol.

                        I think it may be somewhat relevant that (most?) people find it easier to overeat sweets than fat or protein. Then again, there are people who aren't into sweets who can easily overeat lots of salty fatty things.

                        I've read that North Americans will just eat whatever is on their plate regardless of how much it is and how hungry they are. 'Clean your plate' syndrome, I guess. That might be part of it.

                        If the question is WHY exactly people overeat in biochemical terms of leptin and insulin and other hormones... well, debate away. It's interesting from a theoretical point of view. But I suppose it also would be relevent to suggest that behavioral and social factors have as much to do with it as biochemistry.
                        Getting my Grok on in the Pacific Northwest.

                        "C is for cookie, that's good enough for me."
                        "Cookie is a sometimes food."
                        "Sometimes cookie monster eat APPLE instead of COOKIE. Sometimes eat CARROT."
                        -Cookie Monster, partially reformed sugarholic

                        "

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by jturk View Post
                          CandylandCanary - I think you may be missing the point of this debate. Both Stephan and Gary would agree that consuming more energy than you expend will result in fat gain. Saying "extra calories make you fat" doesn't explain anything. The question is why some people consume more energy/calories than others, which is what the debate is about.
                          This is exactly the point and I am relieved to hear someone on this forum who can state it clearly. In the context of a processed, high-bad carb/sugar diet we are driven to over-eat. For most people, that drive to eat is outside of their control. The key is to regulate hormones, through appropriate diet, to trigger satiety.
                          Using low lectin/nightshade free primal to control autoimmune arthritis. (And lost 50 lbs along the way )

                          http://www.krispin.com/lectin.html

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                          • #14
                            Hormones - Truth.
                            Insulin - Truth.
                            Tacos - Truth.
                            Fish - Truth.
                            Cheese - Truth.
                            Tuna - Truth!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

                            YaY TRUTH.. this site is dumb.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by jammies View Post
                              In the context of a processed, high-bad carb/sugar diet we are driven to over-eat. For most people, that drive to eat is outside of their control. The key is to regulate hormones, through appropriate diet, to trigger satiety.
                              This is Taubes argument. Except for the plural, "hormones". He only admits to one. It's also Stephan's argument, if the drive is not hormonal, but behavioral. But it's all pretty irrelevant, really, when it comes to daily life. They're arguing about WHY eating like shit makes you fat.

                              Gordo

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